Ingeus

[gil_jnr]

More good news for the struggling job seeker

More proof if any were needed that this government has no intention or interest in assisting people back into work, both those incentives were 'make or break' for many starting a new job.

 

No doubt that the run-on funding will instead be handed to the WP pimps to offer as a bribe for compliance to provide employer details on staring a job, so making their reward all the more certain.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

Good on yah flumps1976

 

After the fiasco of G4s abysmal performance not only for the Olympics but losing Prisoners and Vans of money, watching while drugs are thrown over Prison Walls etc etc it is only a matter of time before all the other Providers with Government Contracts start to get seriously Spotlighted - It is rather a pattern that these Firms with bad background performance all appear to have Ministers or Friends in High Places that get the Contracts over other Genuine Companies that have High Standards and Ethics.

 

It seems that the UK is getting as corrupt as some of the foreign countries that are well known for corruption - or perhaps the UK corruption exponants are just getting too cocky for their own good - only trouble is there are only 2 to choose from and once they are in Government they all do as they please and line their Friends and Family Pockets.

 

Think I will only vote in Council and Parish Elections in future - at least you can get at the Councellors and make life very uncomfortable in public for them.

 

Lets hope the Silver Vote can make a difference next time round.

 

At our Residents Public Meeting there was an A4e Supposed Careers Speaker (National Careers Service - No mention of A4e but I already knew) and she wanted everyone to fill in a form even though most People were over 65 to 80 - as a Committee Member I was expected to do likewise but declined - I wasnt giving my name, address phone number and NI No. to go on their Data for them to get paid - or who they would give my details to - just looked at the form again and in the small print - statisitcal and research purposes, and used for making a payment for the advice given to you. After the Presentation I could tell that I could teach her more than she could teach me.

 

Also flumps I looked at the Council Money Management Advice maybe for Our Friend but when I saw that it was A4e I decided he was better off with me, by the way he has upped his hours to 32 and the PPI reclaim killed his Overdraft and he is now Money Aware now and is £900 + in Credit - mainly with your help and advice .:-D:-D

Performance Targets may be severely lacking..... but is this the fault of the Welfare To Work Company, or the Department of Work and Pensions which signed off on the contract. Remember that, in the context of the Work Programme, a "Black Box" was simply provided..... and, as highlighted within the Public Accounts Committee interview with DWP Accounting Officer Robert Devereaux on "Fraud within Welfare To Work", notwithstanding that the Black Box was a key part of the programme, he defended the option as the best available.

 

Unfortunately, all the Black Box will do, as with the New Deal and Flexible New Deal, is motivate W2W organisations to deliver on the lowest common denominator, treat candidates with contempt and disdain, and don't do anything to offer a bridge to employers and the candidate.

[osdset]

Mandatory Work Activity Preferred Bidders http://intensiveactivity.wordpress.com/2012/07/16/mandatory-work-activity-preferred-bidders-atos-and-other-chancers/

 

Note that ATOS have joined the band wagon, not content with ruining the lives of the sick and disabled they now turn their attention to the unemployed.

Edited July 16, 2012 by osdset

[speedfreek]

Mandatory Work Activity Preferred Bidders http://intensiveactivity.wordpress.com/2012/07/16/mandatory-work-activity-preferred-bidders-atos-and-other-chancers/

 

Note that ATOS have joined the band wagon, not content with ruining the lives of the sick and disabled they now turn their attention to the unemployed.

 

Mmmmm you never know they might increase their WRAG pass stats forr highly valuable (I think it's £26,000 with all the EU and other subsidies they go for) disabled folks. Can't see a massive conflict of interest there.

 

Now if somebody judged by ATOS previously whatever the result of their WCA has a deterioration etc whilst on ATOS full Workfare. I really wonder what the legal ramifications would be or how big a can of worms with the right legal team?

 

Tbf we really all should be wishing them luck to get a contract!!!!

[catbells]

Ingeus seem to think that my fortnightly signing on at the Jobcentre is separate. My contract is with the Jobcentre and not Ingeus.

 

They (Ingeus) expect 3 jobs applied and declared to the Jobcentre and then as many jobs as they say I must apply for and declare applications to them on paper unless I want to be reported to the Jobcentre for possible sanctions.

 

Are they allowed to force me to make many, many applications far in excess of what my Jobseeker Agreement stipulates? I always exceed the mininum requirements for activity that the Jobcentre expect of me.

 

Has anyone made a request for info on this to DWP Central FoI Team regarding this?

[Bakatcha]

Hi catbells,

You ask:

"Are they allowed to force me to make many, many applications far in excess of what my Jobseeker Agreement stipulates? "

Short answer is "No".

Longer answer is::They can try, but you can afford to ignore them as your contract is with the JC (i.e. you Job Seeker's Agreement) and not with them.

In reality you can only apply for what is there and some W2W clerk picking target figures out of thin air is meaningless and can be ignored.

[catbells]

Another forum user thinks that after 13 weeks my JSAG is no longer valid.

[Bakatcha]

Another forum user thinks that after 13 weeks my JSAG is no longer valid.

I am no expert but I don't see how the Jsag "expires" after 13 weeks.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

I am no expert but I don't see how the Jsag "expires" after 13 weeks.

I think the Job Seekers Agreement can only be superceded by another Job Seekers Agreement, or when the candidate gets a job and signs off the register.

[flumps1976]

The guidance has recently changed and yes the JSAg is only valid for a maximum of 13 weeks so it will alwats be renewed within the 13 weeks while you remain with an adviser at the JCP, once you migrate to the Work Programme you have an action plan with them and that superseedes the JCP JSAg.

Sorry too tired to look to see if I can locate the guidance tonight.

[Bakatcha]

The guidance has recently changed and yes the JSAg is only valid for a maximum of 13 weeks so it will alwats be renewed within the 13 weeks while you remain with an adviser at the JCP, once you migrate to the Work Programme you have an action plan with them and that superseedes the JCP JSAg.

Sorry too tired to look to see if I can locate the guidance tonight.

Interesting!

Once the 13 week period has expired the "Action Plan" supercedes it. So I assume the Job Seeker's Agreement ceases to have any relevance at that point. You do not have to sign the Action Plan (I don't). As far as I'm concerned the so called Action Plan is merely a pimp wish list = they can put on it whatever they like - unless they mandate me to undertake a task I will treat whatever is on the Action Plan with a pinch of salt (especially as they don't even deign to give me a copy of the AP!).

[RebeccaPidgeon]

Interesting!

Once the 13 week period has expired the "Action Plan" supercedes it. So I assume the Job Seeker's Agreement ceases to have any relevance at that point. You do not have to sign the Action Plan (I don't). As far as I'm concerned the so called Action Plan is merely a pimp wish list = they can put on it whatever they like - unless they mandate me to undertake a task I will treat whatever is on the Action Plan with a pinch of salt (especially as they don't even deign to give me a copy of the AP!).

My understanding (I may be incorrect) is that, at the meeting with the JCP Admin Clerk where they are assigned to the Work Programme Pimp, a new Job Seekers Agreement is printed off (even if not modified to that previously issued), with copies requiring signatures for both JCP and the Candidate, and an Action Plan is drawn up by JCP for distribution to the WP Pimp. The JSAg remains in effect until such time another is drawn up.

 

From Data Protection Legislation, and according to the DWP, Work Programme Providers are designated as "DWP Job Centre Data Processors", and JCP can share all Personal Data on the candidate with W2W Organisations without requiring the candidate to give approval.

 

Once the candidate attends the meeting with any W2W Organisation, they may opt not to sign the voluntary "Data Protection Waiver", despite any coercive pressure being placed on the candidate, without any sanction being invoked. However, it is important for the candidate to refrain from using the term "No", lest they be accused of "Gross Misconduct".

 

Once with the W2W Organisation, an Action Plan may be drawn up, but the candidate need not sign this.

 

I think that the critical issue is that, when the candidate signs on every two weeks, they are signing for benefit in accordance with the terms and conditions specified in the Job Seekers Agreement, and simply have to attend the Work Programme until told otherwise and/or sign off the register.

[daddsy]

Welfare to work providers DO NOT sanction anyway.

 

If someone fails to complete a mandatory task or fails to attend a mandatory appointment, which has to be given in writing, the provider has to inform the JCP decision makers and provide evidence that the notice was sent. The decision maker then decides whether or not to impose the sanction.

[flumps1976]

Sorry I'm obviously not making it clear, as soon as you have attended the induction at the providers your JSAg is no longer valid and you are then set up with the action plan.

A JSAg is only valid for a maximum period of 13 weeks whilst claiming JSA before being referred to the work programme.

[daddsy]

In Essex, Job Centre offices have made people on the work programme sign a new JSAG increasing the number of applications they must make to 5 a week.

they have been very strict so far and sanctioning people who don't comply.

Saying that there are not any jobs to apply for is no longer an excuse they are willing to accept

[RebeccaPidgeon]

Sorry I'm obviously not making it clear, as soon as you have attended the induction at the providers your JSAg is no longer valid and you are then set up with the action plan.

A JSAg is only valid for a maximum period of 13 weeks whilst claiming JSA before being referred to the work programme.

I think part of the problem is that the unemployed may be assigned to whatever options Job Centre Plus Administration Clerks may consider appropriate, at their discretion, on behalf of the Secretary of State - such as the Work Programme, Mandatory Work Activity etc. However, given that the options have never been formally specified within the law, the issue is currently been submitted to Judicial Review, and a ruling will be made shortly as to their legalities.

 

http://www.publicinterestlawyers.co.uk/news_details.php?id=260

 

However, the Job Seekers Agreement does not become null and void when a candidate is assigned to the Work Programme. It may be modified during the meeting where the candidate is assigned to the WP, but irrespective, a new Job Seekers Agreement is printed off and signed, and referred to when the candidate signs on.

 

At the meeting, Job Centre Plus develop an Action Plan (which doesn't require a signature), Personal Data passed onto the Work Programme Contract Provider, and the candidate advised that they must attend unless told otherwise.

 

It is an issue of conditionality associated with the Job Seekers Agreement that the candidate must attend the Work Programme, which could last 2-4 years, but as soon as the candidate finds a job, they can simply sign off, and report this to Job Centre Plus, and may stipulate (through Data Protection Legislation) that their Personal Data may not be shared with any Third Party (such as the Work Programme provider).

 

The Job Seekers Agreement has therefore no time limit - it remains valid until such time as i) a candidate continues to sign on, or ii) it is modified.

[YorkyLad]

Jeez, just caught up this thread over the last hour or so. I know what they are like and yet i'm shocked at how they are effecting people.

 

Just a quick word about my experience with stress/anxiety and the work program providers. It will have been about 2007 in Manchester (so maybe wasn't called the WP at the time) and I was mandated to one of their programs. I was struggling at the time with really bad anxiety (was treated for about 6 months on anti-depressants as a result) and the time of my first appointment conflicted with a doctors appointment i needed to get a prescription and a probably too a much needed look over by the doc.

 

I went to speak to my JC adviser (top bloke btw) and explained the situation. He said that it was not a problem at all and agreed it was very important I attend the doctors. He also said he'd advise the WP that I would be late to my appointment.

 

Sounds like everything is going hunky dory.... but please bare in mind I haven't set foot inside the WP office yet.

 

So I go visit my doc and then arrive at the WP provider an hour late as expected/planned. This is where it all went Pete Tong! (sometimes walking through their door is all it takes for the troubles to start)

 

I was quite surprised when i got there my first appointment with them wasnt a one on one but some sort of group activity. So I wander into a room full of people (which when suitably medicated/subdued by the doc's pharmicutical provision wasnt a big problem). However the attitude of the adviser was appalling. "Who are you??" he croaked with turned up nose in disgust as i stood in the door. I stated my name. "What time do you call this??" he demanded to know. I explained that i thought he'd been "advised" of my going to be late.

 

"I ADVISE YOU TO SIT DOWN AND MAKE SURE YOU ARE HERE ON TIME NEXT TIME!"

 

His language, the way he spoke and his body language was very threatening/domineering and in the state of mind I was in decided that it was unacceptable and stood up, without saying a word, left and never went back.

 

I went straight to the JC and asked to speak to my adviser in private. I explained what happened to him and I was told (as i think EVERYONE with some sort of mental illness who is subject to bullying should be told) that I didnt need to go back. So I didnt.

 

Please anyone who is even starting to feel like they developing mental illness relating to the WP or any of the bullsh*t in it's orbit should go and speak to someone at the JC! Do not leave it too late or there are going to be more people popping onto this thread saying they are near the end and then we dont hear from them again. No human being with at least one braincell with the capacity for compassion is going to make you go and be subject to such ****.... and if they do then its them who are to blame for what happens (and they know that).

[Nystagmite]

I've spoke to JC twice about my treatment by the WP. They were shocked. I am now on ESA and probably will be for a while. I don't want to be on ESA; I want to and need to work. But if someone keeps putting obstacles in my way, how can I?

[Daisy11]

If only.....Typical Daily Mail, the article is accompanied by a photo of four beer swilling, hoodie, spliff smoking, layabouts (models of course).

 

 

Right you lot! Dress attire for the next WCA will be a hoodie, and a baseball cap, essential accessories are a large Camberwell carrot, and a bottle of lager, don't forget the huge gold chain and a Blackberry. (Burberry scarves are optional)

 

And don't forget the Staffie pitbull dog on a lead, it's quite an ordeal going in to my jobcentre or work centre as there are so many. Always have to remind myself, show no fear to dogs or they'll attack. Daily Mail is forgetting that there are lots of newly unemployed graduates as well as oldies such as civil servants, engineers, teachers, etc, next it will be the bankers and the accountants to join the job queue.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Daisy11
mistake

[YorkyLad]

More harsh words from the NAO. More directed at the DWP this time for been asleep at the wheel while the WP providers do what they do.

 

http://www.channel4.com/news/dwp-rapped-for-its-handling-of-work-programme-fraud

 

And in perhaps one of its most damaging sections, the NAO said the department could not even assess the quality of service these crucial providers are delivering. It raises important questions about how the work programme is operating.

 

But what is happening to the unemployed people going through this process? Are they being well served by the private providers?

 

The NAO says the department needs to do a much better job of finding out.

 

they should come and read here and find out.... it is no secret we are subject to lies, fraud, bullying and intimidation by a criminal network disguised as public servents.

[YorkyLad]

fraud letter through the door from analingus

 

lies, lies, lies

 

IF YOU ARE NOW WORKING & NO LONGER NEED TO ATTEND - YOU MUST CALL ME IMMEDIATELY TO CONFIRM ALL EMPLOYMENT DETAILS AND TO OBTAIN ANY FINANCIAL IN-SUPPORT YOU ARE ENTITLED TO

 

I think that should read 'we would like you to call...' not 'must call' which implies some sort of obligation

[Bakatcha]

fraud letter through the door from analingus

 

lies, lies, lies

 

 

 

I think that should read 'we would like you to call...' not 'must call' which implies some sort of obligation

Youi weren't expecting a nice polite request were you?!

[YorkyLad]

Youi weren't expecting a nice polite request were you?!

 

I presumed with the amount of pressure they are under they might put on hold the fraudulent requests for stealing data.

 

I have a devilish plan anyway....

[speedfreek]

Anna's charity was bid candy for the Work Programme. Now it's bankrupt

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/19/work-programme-charity-bankrupt

 

Note ignore the ESA sanction bit as it's about UC! Not worth spreading or talking about tbf trust me

[RebeccaPidgeon]

Anna's charity was bid candy for the Work Programme. Now it's bankrupt

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/19/work-programme-charity-bankrupt

 

Note ignore the ESA sanction bit as it's about UC! Not worth spreading or talking about tbf trust me

Sadly, Polly Toynbee is not the most consistent hack available. In 1997, she offered a glowing endorsement of Workfare

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/the-tories-were-right-workfare-really-works-1280874.html

 

Of course, in the case of Eco-Actif, it is reprehensible to learn that the owner thought that they could actually start a business which was never sustainable.... so, fine, she put her own money into it, as opposed to a philanthropists donating it to another charity, and cannot complain when the business collapses.