council tax debt forcing bankcruptcy any advice???

[MARTIN3030]

I am helping a relative in a similar position.

We need to know the amounts owed-when they go back to.

Why they say it is owed,when they obtained liability orders and whether you attended court to defend,and also how you have been dealing ie what you have sent them/recieved in writing etc.

[MARTIN3030]

Ok so I have merged 3 threads which give the background I assume.

[MARTIN3030]

Re: council tax and bankruptcy

"march 2008 i owed quite alot and had no payment plan, in april 2008 my husband and i went on to jobseekers allowance and started to claim council tax benefit and the council made arrangements for us to pay £11 a month to start paying off our arrears. In june 2008 we changed to income support and the council stopped our claim because we came off jobseekers. They asked for proof that we were now on income support which i sent. In novemebr 2008 we recieved a letter from them saying we owed council tax and they knew nothing about us being on income supprt. we then heard nothing until june 2009 saying we owed all the money and they knew nothing about us being on income support. they asked for proof and a list of all our outgoings which i provided.we heard nothing untill the other day saying they had just "found" our letter with proof of everything and it has now been handed over to the right people in the benefits office but it has also already been handed over to the solicitors for a bankruptcy order and tells me i should call the solicitors. it doesnt say how much the amount is but im assuming it must be about £3000"

 

 

Their statements that they were not informed is questionable-when you moved from JS to income support then there would have been more forms-surely IS would have informed revenues and benefits that you were prev in reciept of benefits and another application filed?

 

Although they say it is YOU who should be telling them of any changes-I bet they WAS informed.

[MARTIN3030]

You should be thinking hard about sending a SAR to the council...and requesting anything specific that can show that you DID inform them.

[Conniff]

I am helping a relative in a similar position.

We need to know the amounts owed-when they go back to.

Why they say it is owed,when they obtained liability orders and whether you attended court to defend,and also how you have been dealing ie what you have sent them/recieved in writing etc.

 

There is no defence to a liability order unless you can show that you don't in fact owe it. So if you know that you do owe it, then there is no reason at all to attend the court. The judge has no powers to take in the ability to pay.

 

Liability orders are akin to the £5 for non direct debits, it is a bandwagon jumped on because it will fattens the council coffers, so I think they pray that people don't respond to any reminders that have to be sent.

 

Anything whatsoever to do with government, now seems hell bent on making as much money as they can and in any way they can think up. They do have disreation to spread payments, but just like DCs, they chose not to unless forced.

[spncrpaulj]

In 2006 when I was declared bankrupt, the insolvancy officer stated that the council tax could not be part of my bankruptcy, and I did have to pay my arrears.

 

With regards to my property in my case I had a 125% mortgage with Northern Rock so in negativy equity

 

When my personal circumstances were calculated it was deemed I did not earn enough money to make any payments into my case.

 

The Insolvancy officer did aquire the deeds to my property but because of the negative equity I was able to buy this back from them for £1

 

I know your case is different to mine I voluntry entered bankruptcy, you say the authorites solictors are fileing for bankruptcy.

 

Seems a little strange but if you are both on benefits and if you have little or no equity in the property, if they do file and the judge does grant it, your insolvancy officer can not get blood from a stone and perhaps the bankruptcy will write off the full debt.

 

In all honesty though it looks quite apparant that the council are at fault, go and see your local MP with an election coming up I am sure he or she would be more than happy to help, brownie points etc

 

Good luck

[speedfreek]

So from reading, this would appear to be the councils fault for assuming something without knowing

 

Not sure if this rule was applied then but it does with my council now.

 

If you currently receive housing benefit and there is a change in any of your personal circumstances, you must let us know as soon as possible

 

Changes in your personal circumstances include:

your pension credit, employment and support allowance, income support or job seeker's allowance stopping

changes in your income or savings

changes to the amount of rent you pay

changes to the people living with you.

 

Details here.

Housing benefit and council tax benefit change of circumstances form | Lambeth Council

 

I'm switching from JSA to ESA & was informed yesterday 'You have 30 days to notify the council of any changes in circumstance. Plus 7 days from handing the form in to provide evidence'.

[MARTIN3030]

There is no defence to a liability order unless you can show that you don't in fact owe it. So if you know that you do owe it, then there is no reason at all to attend the court. The judge has no powers to take in the ability to pay.

 

Liability orders are akin to the £5 for non direct debits, it is a bandwagon jumped on because it will fattens the council coffers, so I think they pray that people don't respond to any reminders that have to be sent.

 

Anything whatsoever to do with government, now seems hell bent on making as much money as they can and in any way they can think up. They do have disreation to spread payments, but just like DCs, they chose not to unless forced.[/quote

 

Yes I know this.

 

A couple of years ago I had one myself.

I sent a SAR to the council and was later able to show they were wrong.

As a result they refunded the £100 court costs which were added in seeking the L/0 as well as adjusting my total arrears.

 

Its extremely diffiult to go to a L/O hearing without the docs to show they are in the wrong.

Thats why I suggested a SAR.

Councils dont blike to get them-and in most cases will run them past their legal teams before compliance.

[Conniff]

"They don't like getting them" - has to be worth a tenner then.

 

I think you are correct that a request should be sent especially if there is any doubt that the amount claimed is correct.

Edited April 13, 2010 by Conniff
Gramatical error

[MARTIN3030]

Yes but the time you have to get it-given the 40 day compliance is a fine line.People need to bang in the SAR the moment that the disputes arise.

 

Just saw this in archive;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/100301-bankruptcy-council-tax.html

 

 

Seems a reporter was looking for peeps on this.

[RaeUK]

In 2006 when I was declared bankrupt, the insolvancy officer stated that the council tax could not be part of my bankruptcy, and I did have to pay my arrears...

 

I think it is up to the individual council. My council tax arrears were wiped out on bankruptcy [2007ish].

 

Best wishes

Rae.

[Aviva]

I know that rent arrears are often written off if the tenant becomes bankrupt may be the same for Council Tax arrears.

[Conniff]

Past years arrears 'are' taken as part of the bankruptcy but not the present financial years tax, you still have to pay that.

[selinajayne]

we have just been given the bankruptcy notice to attend court in july

im quite cross because i wrote to the solicitors offering £10 a week and asked them to let me know if this was exceptable and i havent had a reply.

I wrote to the council and was told i hadnt made enough effort to make sure i was still on council tax benefit therefor its my fault and im liable for the amount

the cab helped me write a letter asking for it to be backdated and they said that yes i would have been entitled but they dont bakdate that far so still im liable

i have managed to raise £3000 but havent given it to them yet, im paying next week, im hoping this will mean they will then except a payment plan or is it too late

i will be attending court im hoping the judge will see it from side

[Conniff]

The judge can't take into consideration any ability to pay or reason for non payment. All he can do is either agree yes you do owe or no you don't.

 

If you are in arrears at all, then he has no choice but to issue the liability order.

 

If you can argue the point that you don't owe anything and make it look as if the council has got it wrong, then he won't issue one. But it will take more than just an aural argument.

 

Also, if you owed £3,001 and had £3,000 to pay, the council will still argue that you owe so they get their fee.

You don't say how much they have added on for the fee but you might be interested to note that it only costs the council £3 to apply for a liability order.

 

In your case, the amount you have saved will really go in your favour.

Edited June 11, 2010 by Conniff

[selinajayne]

i can pay what i did owe but cant raise all of it

the bit that is left over is what i should have been recieving in benefit but the council tax wont / dont backdate it that far

i hoping the council will allow me a payment plan once ive paid off more than half and canell the bankcruptcy

[selinajayne]

cancel

[Conniff]

The council have full discretion to come to a payment agreement, but they don't want to, they would rather apply for a liability order so then they get their fee which is all they are really interested in.

 

I've said this lots of times before in other threads and it might shock you to know that in 2008, councils in England earned in excess of £200million in liability order fees so you can see they are keen to go down the court route.

[Conniff]

cancel

 

 

You could have edited you post to correct that

[selinajayne]

i did call the council and said if i pay half would they consider a payment plan and she said yes more than likely but this was before i could raise the money and before the petition was served today

[selinajayne]

i have called the council today who refused to discuss it and told me to call solicitors which i did

they have said i need to make my offer in writing and the remainder would have to be paid in 1-2 months thats if the council agree, if they dont agree i go to court and get made bankcrupt for £2000 and loose my house

they wont even give me detail of how to pay what i have so far

is that right? its almost like they want to take me to court

[Conniff]

No you don't get made bankrupt, the courts don't give these things that easily. If you have a court date, make sure you attend only sneak up on the council rep at the court before you go in the office and when you say who you are, you will hear them say 'ah sh*t'.

 

Judges aint stupid or that mean, if you can pay this over a period, that is what they will order, they wont just make someone homeless on the whim of a council.

[selinajayne]

i have a court date for the 9th july for bankcruptcy, if they agree to my payment plan then it gets adjurned untill the end of the plan i think then if its not all paid obviously i go back to court, although im alittle confused about that as the solicitor wasnt clear and said something about me having to pay court costs

its almost like they dont want me to pay anything now, they want me in court

[honeybee13]

Hi selinajayne. This sounds really tough on you. I hope Conniff is right, because if you did become homeless, you'd be the responsibility of the council, and that sounds daft.

 

Please keep posting.

 

HB x

Edited June 14, 2010 by honeybee13

[selinajayne]

i did ask them this and they told me it was a different department lol typical