Hubby suspended for theft..

[deathbycrayons]

I suggest that he should take a copy of the Grievance letter that you sent in last week to the meeting.

 

Highlight the area where the manager is quoted saying:

"watch your back" and "be very careful, I'm watching you"

　

When the person holding the meeting brings up the manager's statement, I think that this would be a good time to bring out that Grievance letter. This is because it shows that, given their documented history, it is to be expected that your husband would be worried, upset and flustered by the manager's tactics.

 

That's a very good idea.

[deathbycrayons]

Oh hubby says he already said that. They just kept going round in circles with the manager doing the dis saying 'you need a receipt' over and over again.

[mariefab]

It doesn't matter that he is repeating himself, I'd do it anyway.

If he ends up taking this further he'll be able to use everything that is said at the Disciplinary hearing.

[deathbycrayons]

He's in there now as we speak. Will update as soon as I know how it went and what's happening.

[deathbycrayons]

Is it illegal to accuse someone of theft without evidence?

[scousegeezer]

Deathbycrayons,

Sorry it is not illegal to accuse someone of theft without evidence - not criminal anyway. There could be a civil case for slander if the accusation was made public. My opinion for what it is worth is that may have happened with the manager carrying out the search in a public area as he did. AGAINST company policy , which states a discreet search may take place. The other salient point here, with company policy as stated by you;; is that your hubby only has to retain the receipt until the goods purchased are off the premises. There does not appear to be anything in company policy about bringing company branded goods back into the store as part of your lunch box. As far as I am concerned they are on a total LOSER here, if they decide to dismiss your hubby. How has gone today. If you feel up to telling us that is.

 

Cheers - Scousegeezer

[deathbycrayons]

I'm still waiting to hear hun, it's been an hour and a half now.... I'm a wreck!!

 

Hubby printed off this statement and took it in with him:

 

Having had 55 hours elapse since the original issue of a letter of suspension, the company has yet to offer any concrete evidence to support the allegation of theft. I believe this has been a more than sufficient time-frame.

 

Legally speaking, to continue the accusation of theft without any evidence is in itself an illegal act.

 

This has been confirmed to me by a community legal aid team.

 

I therefore request this matter dropped and my immediate re-instatement following this afternoons hearing.

 

I am more than willing to pursue this matter through the courts if nessacery, and it has been confirmed to me by my solicitor that i would have a cast iron case for unfair/ constructive dismissal`

 

I would have thought they would have only been about 10 mins...

[deathbycrayons]

He's been dismissed!!

[deathbycrayons]

Would going to the papers be a bad idea?

[scousegeezer]

Deathbycrayons,

I am so sorry to hear that. Ring jobcentreplus right away and get a claim going for I/B based JSA. Also claim IS.

 

That's the first thing . Then first thing Monday morning - go hunting for a solicitor. Dont pick one out of the yellow pages. Go on line and try to find a firm that have an employment specialist. You could also try your hubby's union to see if they will finance a solicitor, it is usually a perk of being a member. DO NOT LET THIS DROP. You MUST follow it through.

 

What did the friendly union rep say after the meeting.

Scousgeezer

[scousegeezer]

NO, dont go to the papares yett. You dont want to damage your case from the start. It wouyld be classed as sub judice if you are going to instigate legal proceedings.

 

Scousgeezer

[WelshMam2009]

Really sorry to learn of the outcome.

 

You need to follow through the internal appeals process and then to an employment tribunal.

 

Speak to your husband's trade union rep and he should be able to advise.

[electron99]

Has the grievance against the manager been dropped. If so it could be considered that the dismissal is an attempt to squash this action.

 

Would agree don't involve the press, but go for a E.T.

[deathbycrayons]

Thanks. I'm so upset. We were struggling financially as it is....

[electron99]

Another thing while it is fresh in your minds. Write down everything that has happened leading up to today's meeting, with times dates, conversations and witnessess. You will need this later.

 

Incidentally my neighbour works for a supermarket, and from what she describes, they have to be amongst the worst employers in the country, which has led to many of us boycotting our local store.

[deathbycrayons]

Apparently the supermarket will NOT recognise any legal body during a disciplinary other than USDAW. So basically, the LAW isn't good enough for them, it has to be POLICY or USDAW. WTF??!!

[mariefab]

You should appeal this decision.

[deathbycrayons]

Yes, we will appeal. He has 2 chances to appeal. Then if unsuccessfull, employment tribunal. Hubby won't be returning to work there, ever - but he WILL clear his name. Thanks so much everyone

[deathbycrayons]

It's transpired that somebody submitted a false statement at last minute. Saying that Bob asked her to 'search for any old receipt'..

 

Back stabbers. This man is trying to ruin us. We have an appointment with a solicitors on Monday, and we'll be suing for harrassment/damages/victimization/bullying/constructive dismissal.

Edited September 25, 2009 by deathbycrayons
Added info..

[Button1]

Oh no. I'm really sorry to hear your news

 

I can't offer any constructive advice on a tribunal as I have no experience in this field but just wanted to say I've been thinking about you today and am so sorry for you all.

 

Hopefully you will get good advice from other experienced members on this forum.

 

Good luck and keep your chin up xxx

[dx_]

Thanks. I'm so upset. We were struggling financially as it is....

 

 

 

I am sorry to hear of the outcome deathbycrayons. I think you do have a case. Especially since there was already a complaint against the manager. Was this Grievance ever addressed?

 

Apparently the supermarket will NOT recognise any legal body during a disciplinary other than USDAW. So basically, the LAW isn't good enough for them, it has to be POLICY or USDAW. WTF??!!

We'll see what they recognise once the lawyers get involved.

Edited September 27, 2009 by dx_
removal of unauthorised link

[deathbycrayons]

Can somebody help with a letter of appeal? I have no idea where to start.

 

We've decided that even if they do reinstate him, he won't go back as there's no way he wants to set foot in that place again. He just wants to clear his name.

 

Also wants a written apology from the manager. The greivance against him is still going ahead.

[mariefab]

I was thinking about the appeal yesterday and I've prepared a list of questions for you some of which may help to undermine their reasonable belief that he committed the Gross Misconduct.

 

Questions about the Disciplinary meeting:

 

1. Did anyone state that they believed that he had taken the sweets from the store's shelf on 23/09/09?

 

2. If so, did anyone state that they saw him doing this?

 

3. If not, did they produce any evidence (till records, batch codes etc.) to show that a packet of these sweets was unaccounted for on 23/09/09?

 

4. In post#55 you quoted the manager's statement that, 'the sweets were clearly cut with a case knife from the warehouse'

Have they shown any evidence that the the sweets that were confiscated from your OH have the same batch code as the ones that were in the warehouse on that day?

 

5. Is there CCTV in operation at this store and in the warehouse?

 

6. If so, has the CCTV footage checked so as to see where these sweets came from?

 

7. You said in post#14 that, 'in the company staff handbook, it does state that for any food consumed on the premises you must have a receipt to prove you purchased them.'

Can you copy and post the exact wording of the whole of that section of the handbook please?

 

8. Did they say that they would send him a written statement of the reasons for his dismissal?

 

9. Did they say that they would send him a copy of the Disciplinary meeting notes?

 

General Questions:

 

10. Do you have copies of all the witness statements?

 

11. The grievance letter that was put in last week.

Was it handed in?

If so, who was it handed to, the personnel manager or someone else?

On what date was it handed in?

Do you know whether the 'nasty' manager was made aware of this grievance?

If so, do you know when?

 

12. Did your OH turn up for the meeting that was supposed to take place on Thursday 24th Setember at 2pm or did they get in touch before the meeting should have started?

 

You said in post#38 that, They've re-issued his suspension until tomorrow, so that they can carry out further investigation.

13. Is that all that was said at that time? Was anything said by your OH, the union rep or anyone from the Company about the extra day being given in order to allow your OH time to prepare a defence.

 

14. Witness statements, when did you receive:

The manager's statement.

The second witness statement

The extra last minute witness statement

[deathbycrayons]

I was thinking about the appeal yesterday and I've prepared a list of questions for you some of which may help to undermine their reasonable belief that he committed the Gross Misconduct.

 

Questions about the Disciplinary meeting:

 

1. Did anyone state that they believed that he had taken the sweets from the store's shelf on 23/09/09? Nobody said they actually thought he took them from the shelf.

 

2. If so, did anyone state that they saw him doing this?

 

3. If not, did they produce any evidence (till records, batch codes etc.) to show that a packet of these sweets was unaccounted for on 23/09/09?

No they didn't do this.

 

4. In post#55 you quoted the manager's statement that, 'the sweets were clearly cut with a case knife from the warehouse'

Have they shown any evidence that the the sweets that were confiscated from your OH have the same batch code as the ones that were in the warehouse on that day? No.

 

5. Is there CCTV in operation at this store and in the warehouse? Yes I beleive there is.

 

6. If so, has the CCTV footage checked so as to see where these sweets came from?

No they haven't.

 

7. You said in post#14 that, 'in the company staff handbook, it does state that for any food consumed on the premises you must have a receipt to prove you purchased them.'

Can you copy and post the exact wording of the whole of that section of the handbook please? Will do.

8. Did they say that they would send him a written statement of the reasons for his dismissal? Yes.

 

9. Did they say that they would send him a copy of the Disciplinary meeting notes? Yes.

 

General Questions:

 

10. Do you have copies of all the witness statements? No.

11. The grievance letter that was put in last week.

Was it handed in? Yes.

If so, who was it handed to, the personnel manager or someone else?

On what date was it handed in? It was handed in to the personnel manager on 18th September.

Do you know whether the 'nasty' manager was made aware of this grievance? Yes he was.

If so, do you know when? He knew about it before 23rd September, we know this much, the personnel manager told him.

 

12. Did your OH turn up for the meeting that was supposed to take place on Thursday 24th Setember at 2pm or did they get in touch before the meeting should have started? He turned up and they had the hearing. It was adjourned and continued on the 25th.

 

You said in post#38 that, They've re-issued his suspension until tomorrow, so that they can carry out further investigation.

13. Is that all that was said at that time? Was anything said by your OH, the union rep or anyone from the Company about the extra day being given in order to allow your OH time to prepare a defence.

 

14. Witness statements, when did you receive:

The manager's statement. on the 24th just before the hearing. It was given to our union rep.

The second witness statement

The extra last minute witness statement We haven't seen these. They were in the posession of the manager doing the hearing.

 

[mariefab]

Can you please post all that he can remember of what was said at the hearing on the 24th.