Hubby suspended for theft..

[deathbycrayons]

Yes. It might be best to wait untill he's received the minits from the hearing and scan it in, delete all personal details and put it on here.

[deathbycrayons]

I'm just scanning in a couple of relevent sections from the company hand book. When edited personal or company details I'll put it up here.

[deathbycrayons]

Edited September 28, 2009 by deathbycrayons

[andie_303]

Hmmmm - as I thought I knew disciplinary procedure ALL evidence they plan to rely on during the proceedings MUST be given to the employee due to be disciplined BEFORE a hearing.

 

As this "last minute" witness statement was not given to your hubby or union rep before hand I do not believe they can use it. And therefore that would through out the whole event if they have considered that evidence (which they obviously did) in the dismissal.

 

Can someone confirm that for me??

[mariefab]

In my opinion, your post#103 contains everything you need to either overturn the decision at Appeal or at an Employment Tribunal.

　

Security Policy

Theft, unauthorised possession or unauthorised use of Company property.......... wil be treated by the Company as gross misconduct.................this will normally lead to Summary Dismissal

The chocolate raisins were not Company property, they were your property.

Except for normal retail shopping (including staff shopping) authority to remove, consume or make use of Company property by an employee for his or her own purposes an only be given by a Director............

They confirm here that you are entitled to take home your own shopping (including staff shopping).

Staff Shopping Procedure

Naturally, we would like you to shop as well as work at xxxxx. You are welcome to carry out personal shopping during store trading hours in your own time. This means you are permitted to shop either before commencing work, after clocking off for lunch breaks or after finishing work. However we have established certain rules to protect you from feeling compromised in any way.

When shopping you must either remove your tabard/apron and tie/bow or cover up your staff uniform. you are not permitted to serve yourself, put goods aside, or have goods put aside for you, for your own purchase at a later time.

You may use any till, however the till receipt must always be retained with your shopping until it is taken from the store. If you need to keep your shopping in the store until you have finished your shift, it is essential that you have your receipt signed by a member of the checkout management team. Shopping and receipts must be stored in a secure staff area such as your locker.

 

This procedure is designed to apply to items purchased on a working day.

Indeed, it specifically states that the receipt must be retained with the shopping 'until it is taken from the store.'

I can find no statement in any of these policies that requires you to have a receipt for items purchased at an earlier date.

Staff check procedures

If items are found during the check which appear to be Company property, or items belonging to another person, which you are not authorised to have in your possession, the property may be confiscated pending an investigation. It is essential therefore, that you retain any receipts for staff shopping so that it can be established that you are authorised to have the items in your possession.

So, they confiscated the chocolate raisins and conducted an investigation did they?

A national supermarket chain has substantial resourses at their disposal for this purpose.

For example; CCTV recordings, till records, stock records and batch codes.

In this case they don't appear to have used any of these.

Instead they seem to have only used the suspicions expressed in witness statements

[andie_303]

Very interesting - well looked at Marie

 

I think you are spot on with this.

[mariefab]

I think that the Company have only managed to get this far because they kept insisting that the only way to prove his innocence was by producing a receipt.

 

This receipt business is a red herring because, according to their own policies, he only needs to have a receipt for items acquired on that day.

 

He repeatedly informed them on the 23rd September that the chololate raisins had been purchased before that day.

 

So, if they didn't believe him, their proper course of action should then have been to confiscate the raisins (which they did).

 

Then using this evidence they should have used the considerable resouces at their disposal to attempt to prove that the chocolate raisins were in fact taken by him on 23rd September (which they didn't).

[madari]

Madari the snake charmer says:

The employer only has to form a reasonable belief and that is enough for them to win any employment tribunal.......So please dont build your hopes up and also remember that as long as you remain on their pay roll you are their problem so do not under any circumstances resign.

[deathbycrayons]

Marie - you're wonderful. Thank you. We saw a solicitor today and she says we have an incredibly good case. She also laughed when we told her it was over a 60p packet of chocolate raisins!!

 

She advised us to appeal, and to inform them at the appeal that we've instructed solicitors to commence proceedings. Then if the appeal doesn't go in our favour, she'll help us take it to tribunal.

[deathbycrayons]

Madari the snake charmer says:

The employer only has to form a reasonable belief and that is enough for them to win any employment tribunal.......So please dont build your hopes up and also remember that as long as you remain on their pay roll you are their problem so do not under any circumstances resign.

 

 

?? He's already been dismissed..

[scousegeezer]

Madari,

I understand your poiint regarding a reasonable belief. HOWEVER, IN THIS CASE THEY DID NOT HAVE A REASONABLE BELIEF. Just a slanted opinion of a particular manager.

 

Cheers - Scousegeezer.

[deathbycrayons]

Could anybody help me try and write an appeal letter please?

We have an amazing case thanks to the people of CAG and the facts are there.. I just need help with putting a letter together..

[scousegeezer]

Detahby,

Docx Green has posted her own thread. You have just posted on it. She has not hijacked your thread .

 

Cheers - Scousegeezer

[deathbycrayons]

Detahby,

Docx Green has posted her own thread. You have just posted on it. She has not hijacked your thread .

 

Cheers - Scousegeezer

 

Yes, I realised this, it was an error and I posted sincere apologies on her thread!!

[mariefab]

I can compose an Appeal letter for you if you like.

I think it would be best to wait until you receive their letter confirming the dismissal and giving the reasons (unless you haven't heard from them after a week or so).

 

You don't need to inform them of your case in your Appeal letter. In fact it's not in your interest to do so. You should keep that until the actual Appeal meeting.

[deathbycrayons]

I can compose an Appeal letter for you if you like.

I think it would be best to wait until you receive their letter confirming the dismissal and giving the reasons (unless you haven't heard from them after a week or so).

 

You don't need to inform them of your case in your Appeal letter. In fact it's not in your interest to do so. You should keep that until the actual Appeal meeting.

 

OK, that would be GREAT if you could compose an appeal letter. Thank you so much xx

[mariefab]

No problem:)

 

Update the thread when you receive their letter so that I can acknowledge and refer to their dismissal letter in the Appeal letter.

[deathbycrayons]

On a seperate note. Does anybody know how one can study law through the open university with no a-levels?

[mariefab]

Law |Undergraduate Courses, Degrees, Diplomas, Certificates and Qualifications - Open University

[lihi]

On a seperate note. Does anybody know how one can study law through the open university with no a-levels?

 

You should be allowed to as a mature student. If they seem hesitant show them the same determination you have in supporting your husband (a very lucky man!!) and they should have no problems waiving procedures.

[ErikaPNP]

On a seperate note. Does anybody know how one can study law through the open university with no a-levels?

 

 

You study undergraduate courses to the value of 360 credits which gains you a degree! It can take a number of years to complete though, more so if you are reliant on funding as only a certain amount can be funded per year. In the first year, they will only fund 60 credits.

 

However a lot of people think you can get a degree then "be" a solicitor. It doesn't quite work like that. In order to practice as a solicitor, you need to have a degree, you need to go on a legal practice course (between one to two years) then you need to have two years vocational training with a solicitors firm before you can actually practice....so it's not as straight forward as some people think.

 

I'm doing this at the moment, but if I qualify, I will then have to convert because I want to practice in Scottish Law. There are currently no LLB courses via distance learning in Scotland, although it is looking at being introduced in the near future.

[deathbycrayons]

We've received the minits. They're very badly typed. There's a part at the beginning of the second hearing that refers to me talking to someone called Becky on facebook. That was her offering to look through the till roll in the petrol station to see if she could find a receipt with chocolate raisins on it. Then the sly cow submitted a statement saying that I approached her and asked her to do it. I have no idea why this is.

[deathbycrayons]

The letter of dismissal has arrived.

 

This is what it says:

 

Dear Bob,

 

Re: Summary Dismissal

 

I am writing to confirm the decision taken at the disciplinary hearing held on 25.09.09, with myself, in the presence of Sxxxxxx Axxxxx and Ed xxxxxxx your representative.

 

It has been decided that you will be summarily dismissed, in accordance with the company disciplinary procedure, stage 4 paragraph 29 for Gross Misconduct. Summary dismissal means you will not receive pay in lieu of notice or any accrued holiday pay in excess of your statutory entitlement under the Working Time Regulations 1998. Your contract and date was 25.09.09. The reason for your dismissal is explained below: Gross misconduct - unauthorised possession and consumption of company property in that when you were staff checked on 23.09.09 you had in your pocket a packet of M milk chocolate californian raisins for which you could not provide proof of purchase.

 

You have the right to appeal against this decision as per the Disciplinary and Appeals Procedure, which can be found in appendix 1 of the staff handbook. In accorance with paragraph 4 of the procedure you may be accompanied by a fellow employee or union representative of your choice. Your letter of appeal must be addressed to the Appeals secretary, *address* and should be received within 10 days of the disciplinary hearing.

 

Yours sincerely

[deathbycrayons]

[Bookworm]

Kangaroo court springs to mind.

 

I think it is quite obvious that the manager was looking for any excuse to get rid of DH and that if he hadn't found this one, he would have found another one... Whether he's hoping that it will make his own grievance go away or getting his retaliation in first is anyone's guess. I think that with the timing, he's probably thinking that even if his grievance goes ahead, he'll be able to muddy the waters by saying "oh, sour grapes, employee got sacked for gross misconduct and trying to get back at me" and if the dates are not examined properly, well... Plus DH's credibility is automatically shot if he is fired for theft, so it's win-win for the manager anyway.

 

All you can do for now is follow the procedure for appeal, and make it clear that you will be taking this all the way to tribunal anyway.