Autoland Car Sale/Oldbury Cars Ltd - sold me a Pup Audi - refusing to accept short term right to return

[DG319]

Hi,

 

I have come here today because I require help/advice on the above topic. I apologise for the length of this but I like to give full details.

 

I brought an Audi Q7 on 29th April 2023 from an independent garage seller. It was advertised on motors.co.uk. It was advertised to include full service history, also rear entertainments which means tvs in the front headrests. They got the vehicle serviced, MOT'd and inspected the vehicle all ready to collect on the same day.

 

When we arrived we were rushed to view and inspect it, not offered a test drive (it passed MOT) and straight into the office for payment and signing. We were on the premises for less than half an hour.

 

After getting the vehicle outside the lot so the guy could lock up, we had a full proper look at the vehicle. The panoramic roof wouldn't work fully, air suspension adaptation light was on the dash (still is), the drivers front door is dropped, has stop start but start function doesn't work.

 

We rang the guy and he assured us it would be looked at, but to go enjoy our holiday and get in touch when we get back. On my drive home from the garage I noticed when you get to a certain speed it has a very bad brake judder on the steering wheel, it would not of been noticed on a test drive unless you drove at 60mph. We then found it does not have the rear entertainment and the service history has a few years missing. 

 

I emailed the garage on the 8th May 2023 to which he claims he has not received as my partner rang him to see if he had received it due to it possibly go to junk. My partner then explained we wanted to return the vehicle due to the air adaptive suspension light being on, the door being dropped, the very bad brake judder and no rear entertainment as advertised. The garage was of no help saying he was busy and hasn't seen the email and will get back to us. 

 

I rang my RAC legal advice and they assured me I could return the vehicle for a refund under the consumer rights act short term under the vehicle not being of satisfactory quality and not as described. I rang the garage today 13th May 2023, explained the problems again and that I wish to return the vehicle under the consumer rights act for the vehicle not of satisfactory quality and not as described. 

 

The garage is 100% refusing to take the car back, he is adamant that the above faults are not faults with the car (my main issue is the light on the dash, they only come on when there is a fault) and do not come under the consumer rights act and as for the advert he claims it has nothing to do with them, they put the advert on, write their piece and the website automatically puts it on there.  But I'm sure if that was the case then all the Audi Q7s for sale on the same website would have that same description, but I have not seen it on any other advert.

 

As for the service history he is saying that the service only needs to be done every 20,000miles, but I worked in a car repair garage myself and the service schedule is every 12months or 10,000 miles which ever comes first to which he said it is not a new car its 13years old, but it really doesn't matter on the age of the vehicle. Then he tells me to get in touch with the garage they paid to service/mot it and deal with them but my contract is with him not the garage he paid.

 

I am lost at what to do from here, am I right with what I'm saying or is he right in refusing and the faults are not honourable. I'm worried I've brought a car that I can not use safely to take my kids to school etc and that I'm going to be stuck with and have to get it repaired and keep.

 

Thank you so much if you made it this far.

[dx100uk]

name names!!!! name and shame

 

of course they are totally wrong  .....

[BankFodder]

Thank you for your very long post but you have managed to miss out some essential details of the story including, as my site team colleague has requested, the name of the garage which sold you the vehicle .

Also, the age of the vehicle, mileage of the vehicle, price paid.

Did you pay cash, did you use finance and if so was the finance Hire purchase or a loan .

 

I understand that you have tried to assert your rights under the consumer rights act but that you have done this by email and they claim that they have not received it .

I understand also that you have then repeated your assertion of rights on the telephone .

However, no point have you told us that you have written to them. You should do this immediately and do it by recorded delivery and also a second letter –  identical by ordinary Post so that even if they refuse the recorded delivery letter, they will have one which goes through the door anyway .

Come back and tell us that this has been done and also give us the other the information that we need. 

 

Also, I understand that the vehicle was newly MOT. Was it MOT by the garage which sold you the vehicle?

Was it MOT by a garage near to the garage sold you the vehicle?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DG319]

Thank you for responding quickly. I am in the process of trying to write a letter to send them.

 

The other details missing is:

garage name I brought the vehicle from is

Autoland Car Sale in Oldbury Birmingham, although on Motors.co.uk, where the vehicle advertised is called Oldbury Cars Ltd.

I paid £6249 by bank transfer for 57 plate Audi Q7 on 122,463miles. 

It was also MOT'd by a garage near to the garage that sold me the vehicle called Enterprise garage.

Thank you

Don't know if it matters or not but I thought more detail the better.

The guy I dealt with on site was just a mechanic/wash guy, wasn't even the manager or anything but they didn't provide or show me the V5 log book either,

then when I questioned about it so I could tax the vehicle before I drove home we rang the manager to be told I'd be fine as I'm under his insurance for the next 7days and the V5 will come through by post.

This slightly worried me, luckily there was a green slip in the service book and it worked to tax the vehicle as I already knew that what he said was not true at all, insurance doesn't cover road tax.

But I still haven't actually had the V5 through either and this is the 4th vehicle I've brought, the V5 is normally here by now.

[BankFodder]

Please note that one of my site team colleagues had to restructure your opening post in order to make it more legible for people who are interested in helping you. This is especially the case with people using small screen such as telephones.

You've posted another solid block of text. I have taken the trouble of restructuring that one.
Please will you help us by including proper spacing and punctuation in future.

 

Please let us see the letter that you are about to send. This is something that should be done straightaway. Don't hang around.

Also, please follow the link to seeing our used car guide advice. By paying by bank transfer you have sacrificed substantial rights which would have made everything much easier and given you proper protection.
Can we take it that the dealer insisted on being paid this way? Or did you simply volunteer?

I'm afraid that it is unlikely that the dealer will respect your short-term right to return – but you never know. Start off by the letter which I suggest we see first of all.

Generally speaking, what is the condition of the car like?

Have you checked the tyres, brakes, steering, and so forth?

I'm afraid that we always get very suspicious when we hear that people have bought a second-hand car with a new MOT which has been provided by a garage which is very local to the dealer or maybe even by the dealer themselves.

We may end up suggesting that you get a further MOT from a completely independent garage well out of the locality, as an initial step.

[DG319]

Autoland Cars Sale
12-20 Birmingham Street
Oldbury
B69 4EB
Oldbury Car Sales
14 Birmingham Road
Oldbury
B69 4ED
Dear Autoland Car Sales
WITHOUT PREJUDICE
purchased the Audi Q7; SW57NLD from yourselves Autoland Car Sales / Oldbury Car
Sales on 29/04/2023 you will recall that I have spoken to you by telephone to advise you of
my concerns regarding the vehicle and today as the letter is dated 17/05/2023 I wish to
exercise am exercising my legal right to reject the vehicle under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.
Firstly, having taken advise of which I have supporting evidence, the vehicle is not to
the specification that you advertised
More importantly the vehicle has faults that should not have been present upon
purchase, therefore the vehicle is not fit for the purpose.

 

Upon making telephone calls to you, I found your conduct/behaviour as an attempt to
intimidate me and I am afraid I stand by my rights beliefs and the evidence I have therefore if you
fail to exercise my consumer rights I will pursue this matter via the legal route not only
seeking a full refund but also compensation as a result of your attempt of intimidating
conduct and for the alarm and distress that this has caused me and my family.
I also have grounds to assume that the MOT was carried out "favourably" to you as the
seller, therefore if you fail to offer my entitled refund I will also contact DVSA and seek them
to carry out a full inspection of the vehicle of which could have a detrimental effect on the
operation of the MOT Centre.

 

 

To ensure my safety I have a call record app on my phone and upon making the
garage upon collection of the vehicle I was informed that I was covered on your insurance
for the period of 7 days including for road tax, this I find utterly appalling,  you as a business allowing me to drive a vehicle where I was potentially "uninsured and not taxed" and upon me speaking with Covea insurance
they advise that they do not offer such cover under the motortrade policy specifically where
you had no details of mine to add me to such a policy. Furthermore having carried out a HPI
check today I can see that the last change of keeper was 28/04/21 and on the basis that the
-
V5 document is not in my possession, I can only assume that I was misled in you advising
that you have the V5 and you have subsequently sent off a V62.

 

 

May I also point out that your addresses on your receipts and the signage do not relate
correctly therefore failure to exercise my consumer rights and I will also report your
business/various names and addresses to HMRC, VAT and Trading Standards. Without
appearing to be rude, I am sure you will agree that a refund may be painful for you to offer at
this stage however knowing how HMRC, Tax, VAT and Companies House investigations
work, I am sure you will agree that this would be the much easier process for you to agree.

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by BankFodder
Edits

[DG319]

Another garage I went to today has wrote that out for me to send to them as he did a diagnostic on the vehicle for the light to find it is a faulty rear level sensor and the part costs £214+vat then add labour on top.

 

 

Autoland did not mind me paying by card but for that I would of had to go next door as the garages wifi wasn't strong in the building, so I asked if bank transfer would be better. 

 

 

From looking at the car it looks reasonably well for its age, odd few marks but nothing you wouldn't expect at its age. The MOT has advisories but normally you would think they would be acceptable to last at least 3months but with the brake judder I'd say they need replacing asap and should not of passed. I am looking at getting an impartial pre mot inspection done tomorrow.

 

Thank you.

[BankFodder]

Please have a look at the edits I have suggested for your letter.

 

It is important that you know what you were talking about before you start writing it.

 

Why have you used - without prejudice? Do you know what it means?

 

You are making allegations about favourable MOT tests.  Do you have evidence of this?

 

Damages for stress caused by inconvenience or suffered as a result of harassment or intimidation are not available in this kind of action. You should not be making these threats 

 

Are suggest that you revise your letter and post up a further Draft here

[DG319]

The owner of the garage I went to for diagnostics wrote the letter, I was going to edit myself before sending. I have the vehicle in for pre mot tomorrow so I will be able to have confirmation of the mot status tomorrow before I send the letter and edit accordingly.

 

 

Autoland Cars Sale
12-20 Birmingham Street
Oldbury
B69 4EB
Oldbury Car Sales
14 Birmingham Road
Oldbury
B69 4ED
 

Dear Autoland Car Sales
 

I purchased the Audi Q7; ....... from yourselves Autoland Car Sales / Oldbury Car
Sales on 29/04/2023 for £6249. You will recall that I have spoken to you by telephone to advise you of my concerns regarding the vehicle and today as the letter is dated 17/05/2023 I am exercising my legal right to reject the vehicle under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

·         Firstly, having taken advise of which I have supporting evidence, the vehicle is not to
the specification that you advertised

·         More importantly the vehicle has faults that should not have been present upon
purchase, therefore the vehicle is not fit for the purpose.

 

Upon making telephone calls to you, I found your conduct/behaviour as an attempt to
intimidate me and I stand by my rights and the evidence I have therefore if you fail to exercise my consumer rights I will pursue this matter via the legal route seeking a full refund.
 

I also have grounds to assume that the MOT was carried out "favourably" to you as the
seller, therefore if you fail to offer my entitled refund I will also contact DVSA and seek them to carry out a full inspection of the vehicle of which could have a detrimental effect on the operation of the MOT Centre.

 

To ensure my safety I have a call record app on my phone and upon making the
garage upon collection of the vehicle I was informed that I was covered on your insurance for the period of 7 days including for road tax, this I find utterly appalling,  you as a business allowing me to drive a vehicle where I was potentially "uninsured and not taxed" and upon me speaking with Covea insurance they advise that they do not offer such cover under the motor trade policy specifically where you had no details of mine to add me to such a policy. Furthermore having carried out a HPI check today I can see that the last change of keeper was 28/04/21 and on the basis that the V5 document is not in my possession, I can only assume that I was misled in you advising that you have the V5 and you have subsequently sent off a V62.

 

May I also point out that your addresses on your receipts and the signage do not relate
correctly therefore failure to exercise my consumer rights and I will also report your
business/various names and addresses to HMRC, VAT and Trading Standards.

 

Please respond to this letter via email or letter and state your intentions and next steps to dissolve this matter. If I do not hear from you within 7 days or should you reject my claim I will be legally pursuing you with the next steps.

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

......

 

 

Edited May 18, 2023 by dx100uk
docx file with pers info showing now edited to txt in post

[BankFodder]

I suggest that you do not send this letter .

Please monitor the thread for a fuller reply tomorrow

 

[dx100uk]

please dont use docx files

PDF or text in a post ONLY.

all your pers details show in file/info/properties in docx files.

i have removed your details and posted your letter as text to your last post

please dont forget you must remain anon here  it's a public forum.

[BankFodder]

21 hours ago, DG319 said:

 

Autoland Cars Sale
12-20 Birmingham Street
Oldbury
B69 4EB
Oldbury Car Sales
14 Birmingham Road
Oldbury
B69 4ED
 

Dear Autoland Car Sales

Notice of Rejection under the Consumer Rights Act 2015
 

I purchased the Audi Q7; registration number XXX from yourselves Autoland Car Sales / Oldbury Car Sales on 29/04/2023 for £6249.

 

As you know, I have spoken to you by telephone to advise you of my concerns regarding the vehicle and have already expressed my wish to assert my short-term right to reject under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

The various faults have already been explained to you and you are fully aware.
 

This letter is intended to confirm what we have discussed on the telephone – that the vehicle is not satisfactory standard. It has manifested faults and therefore are required that you refund me the purchase price and make immediate arrangements to have the vehicle collected.
 

I should also tell you that despite the fact that the car was issued with a new MOT certificate, I am concerned about the condition of the car and if there is any dispute in relation to my assertion of my legal rights, then I may decide to have the car MOT begin at an independent MOT garage in order to ascertain its to condition and whether the new MOT which she supplied with the vehicle was in fact correctly issued.

 

Additionally, I was informed that I was covered on your insurance for the period of 7 days including for road tax.

In fact I have spoken with Covea insurance you have now advised me that they do not offer such cover in relation to motor trade policies and it is their view that I was not insured at all despite your undertaking to me.

This means that you as a business allowed me to drive the vehicle when in fact I was uninsured and not taxed. This put me a substantial risk of police action and also could have caused great problems if there had been an accident.

 

There are also certain questions to be raised about previous ownership. Last change of keeper was apparently on 20 April 2021. You have not supplied me with a form V5, contrary to your promise to me.

 

I would suggest that it is in your interest as well as my own interest that this matter is dealt with quickly so that we can each go our separate ways. This means that you should reimburse me within the next seven days and make arrangements to have the vehicle collected within the next 14 days.

I look forward to hearing from you by return

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

......

 

 

 

Have a look at the above letter and let us know if there is anything incorrect or anything you want to add.

There is no point in beating on about all the other stuff. It's not relevant and you may as well simply stored up in case you need it later.

[DG319]

That seems perfect to me, I did think the original was a tad harsh in it's words.

Do I include my bank details onto the letter for the refund? 

Also would it be bad to send the letter via whats app to the business number, As well as sending a hard copy via recorded delivery and 1st class.

I really appreciate the help and your time. I'm just worried they refuse and I can't really afford solicitors etc.

[BankFodder]

No bank details .

 

Yes, send it anyway you can including recorded delivery post.

 

It probably won't produce any result at all and you will have to begin a court claim, but this is a fairly necessary first step.

 

You won't need a solicitor. We will help you through it

 

[BankFodder]

Also, I noticed that you had the opportunity of paying by card and you chose to pay by bank transfer yourself.

 

I don't know if you have looked at the advice we have given in terms of buying a used car.

By opting to pay by bank transfer you have given up enormous rights.

If you had paid by card then it would have simply been a matter between you and your bank and it would have been straightforward.

You chose to pay by bank transfer. Big Fail.

[DG319]

Thank you for your help.

 

I have sent the letter, circumstances at home didn't allow me to send until 22nd, but still before the 30days. They have recieved it via recorded, normal and digitaly on whats app but heard nothing back as of yet.

 

What is the next step after this? I don't think I'm going to hear anything from them at all.

 

I have read through the whole guide and when I buy my next car, I will be going through the guide point by point and not let any salesman rush me either.

[BankFodder]

Come back here in about 7 days or earlier if you get some kind of response.

Meanwhile start reading up on this forum about the the steps involved in bringing a small claim in the county court

 

Also, start drafting your letter of claim

[DG319]

His 7days is up on 29th/30th for the refund. 

 

I've read through the small claims and draft letter but it's all complicated and lengthy to me. I don't understand any of it, I can see why business' get away with not refunding, as they should because its time and costs. 

 

I have twin babies and a toddler at home so getting time to do anything important like this is nearly impossible. I think they are going to win.

[BankFodder]

They won't win. We will help you, but I'm afraid that you need to find a bit of time to write this letter once your children are in bed asleep.

 

[DG319]

I have started one after reading through the guides on this website and the justice guide. Am I writing the correct one for 'debt'? 

 

It isn't complete as of yet as I have no idea what I'm doing, or what else to put it and how to word things properly.

 

I just thought I would show first so to know I'm on the right track and not wasting my time writing about the wrong subject.

letter of claim.pdf

[BankFodder]

I haven't looked at it but it is not for debt.

It is simply for breach of contract and there is no template. But it's not difficult to allege the breach and then to give 14 days before bringing a court action

 

[dx100uk]

bit sparse.

there are 100's of car letter of claims here 

read a few and it's 14days not 30.

 

dx

 

[DG319]

30th May 2023
Autoland Cars Sale

12-20 Birmingham Street Oldbury B69 4EB

Oldbury Car Sales

14 Birmingham Road Oldbury B69 4ED

Dear Autoland Car Sales

After speaking to you on the phone several times since 12th May 2023 and you refusing to accept my short term right to reject and not receiving any response from you in regards to my letter further exercising my 30 day short term right to reject dated 17/05/2023 for the Audi xxxxxx.

I am writing my letter of claim to yourself for the sum of £6249 for breach of contract, for supplying a vehicle with faults that you are already aware of and wrongly advertised.

You can pay this by cheque and sending it to the return address above or by bank transfer to the details at the bottom of this letter.

I am hoping to resolve this amicably and without going to court.

However if I do not hear from you within the next 14days this will then be taken to court.

Yours sincerely 

 

I have tried to add more in and made it about breach on contract instead of debt. Also changed to 14 days.

 

[DG319]

Do I need to include a reply form with my letter of claim? Sending the letter off today as I am really struggling without a car. I haven't used it since I sent my letter of rejection. 

 

Impossible to actually leave my house to go the shop without a car with having baby twins and a toddler that doesn't fully walk yet.

[dx100uk]

no.