Hubby suspended for theft..

[deathbycrayons]

My husband has been really stupid. You probably know all about his problems with his job at supermarkert by now.

 

This morning he was suspended because he was eating a packet of chocolate raisons on the shop floor and couldn't provide proof of purchase.

 

The nasty manager (who we know all about - see thread 'Manager bullying hubby') pounced on him and got him to empty his pockets on the shop floor. Hubby searched everywhere for the receipt and has been suspended untill a disciplinary hearing tomorrow.

 

HELP. Please.

Edited September 27, 2009 by deathbycrayons
Personal info..

[deathbycrayons]

Bump..

[deathbycrayons]

This is what I've typed up for his disciplinary hearing tomorrow.

On 23rd September 2009 at approximately 7.15 I was on my shift stood by the parmacy cleaning the floor. I had a packet of sweets in my inside pocket of my body warmer and I took one out of the packet and ate it. *manager* approached me and asked me what I was eating. I told him I was eating a sweet. He then proceeded to abbruptly ordered me to empty my pockets. Matt bloggs in attendance. I emptied my pockets onto the back of till 1. Manager asked me if I had a receipt for the sweets. I replied "Yes, it should be in my locker". I put my things back in my pockets and went to the locker room.

 

I emptied my locker contents onto the floor and started sifting through all the many receipts and paperwork I had.

 

I did have a receipt which I thought had the sweets on it, but it was a different receipt for some tobacco bought the previous day.

 

Manager came into the locker room and asked me if I'd found it yet. I said no. He asked for the sweets, I handed them to him, asked him what he was doing with them, and he told me he was taking them to his office untill I could find proof of purchase.

 

I carried on searching for the receipt and still couldn't find it. Manager returned around 8am and asked me when I bought them, and roughly how much I thought the shopping would have totalled. I replied roughly £30 as it was a weekly shop. Manager then left the room, I started to put my things back in my locker, upset and confused, and went outside for some air on my break.

 

I phoned Deputy Manager in tears to ask advice and Karl said if I could remember what till it was he would go back into the system and try and find the transaction to show the sweets were purchased.

 

I then returned to store and went to see personell. Manager and Personell Manager were in the office. Manager turned to me and said "as you know you have a disciplinary scheduled tomorrow for lateness. That won't be going ahead now. I am suspending you for gross misconduct. You won't be allowed back on the premises untill 2pm tomorrow where you will attend a disciplinary hearing for gross misconduct".

 

At that point I broke down and cried, Manager got up and left. Personell manager talked to me about representation and tried to help me to remember exactly when the sweets were purchased.

 

I was then escorted off the premises.

 

I came home and managed to find the receipt from the shopping on Monday. The sweets did not appear on the receipt and my wife and I were left very confused. We racked our brains for about half an hour and my wife got me to go through exactly what happened when I bought the sweets, step by step. I remember going to get a fruitshoot for my 2 year old daughter, and I remember picking up the chocolate raisins and gave them to her to hold. I then went to get the fruitshoot.

 

At the till my wife and I unloaded the shopping from the trolley onto the conveyor belt. Kerry bloggs was walking past and briefly chatted to my wife. Myself and my daughter went to the end of the till to pack the shopping.

 

My job is very important to me. I am very upset that this has happened, I have never been in any kind of trouble like this before and would like you to accept my sincere apologies.

Edited September 27, 2009 by deathbycrayons
personal info..

[itstheone]

Sorry you havent had any help yet, i dont know what to suggest, but...

 

Suspending someone one day and doing the disiplinary the next day seems very quick.

 

Your husband is entitled to take whoever he wants in with him, be it a solicitor or whoever, he is also entitled to look at the evidence they are producing so he can respond to their accusations.

 

To me this seems out of procedure for the seriousness of this alledged offense.

 

Get some legal advice now, acas is probably the best bet, or if you have legal assisstance with your house insurance, most people do, give them a call.

 

At best you could get the hearing delayed for a couple of weeks on full pay.

 

Sorry i havent read about your hubbys troubles, how long has he worked there?

[itstheone]

Another thing, did they fully inform him of his rights?

 

Further to my first post i would defo get this hearing delayed to give him a chance to formulate his defense, after taking legal advice of course.

 

If he knows he is gonna get sacked then maybe let them sack him tomorrow, which they probably will..sorry, and go after them for not following correct precedures, after taking some proper advice.

 

This similar disiplinary situation occured with a work mate, he wasnt suspended before they sacked him tho, there still working out compensation.

Slightly different to your situation, but in a sackable offense it is important for them to follow the correct procedure, and it doesn't sound like they are.

Edited September 23, 2009 by itstheone

[itstheone]

There is a guide here, has he had a letter informing him of the charges and explaining his rights and the procedure?

 

http://www.acas.org.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=1043

 

I'll stop posting now, but as the hearing is for tomorrow it was rather urgent.

 

Good luck

[Button1]

Is the answer to this not a simple one..........are you be 100% certain that is what happened?? All you need say is that you can't remember where you bought them from?? How many shops in your area sell the same sweets?? He could have taken them from the cupboard at home, or had them in his locker for months...........or if he's anything like my husband, has had them in his pocket for a week! Most blokes are not very fussy what they have in their pockets!

 

I just think your letter muddies the water a bit?? It adds complication. It sounds guilty as you are apologising.

 

Theft has to be proved and he did not steal the sweets so why should he be punished?

 

Keep it simple.........in this case the worst thing he has done wrong is eating a chocolate raisin on the job!!!

 

Let us know how you get on.

Edited September 23, 2009 by Button1

[Button1]

just another thought.......do you really have to justify everything to this man?? Does the manager in question have the right to ask for receipts for say, your husbands socks (im assuming they sells socks?).

 

No, he shouldn't have been eating on the job, but that doesn't give the manager the right to assume that just because your husband can't provide a receipt for the chocolate raisins, doesn't mean to say he stole them!

[mariefab]

I agree with button.

 

As the Company are accusing him of stealing the sweets, it's up to them to show:

1. Proof that those particular sweets were stolen by him from their store.

2. Proof of when they were stolen, witnesses, CCTV, etc.

(If they produce CCTV footage showing what you described in your post#3 then he can honestly reply that at the time he didn't know that this had occurred.)

 

He has a statutory right to be accompanied at a Disciplinary hearing.

You should phone today and say so. Request that the hearing should be delayed for a few days so that he can arrange for someone to accompany him.

If they refuse, say that you want their refusal to allow your statutory right in writing before the meeting.

Does he have a friend at work that he could ask to sit in and take notes. Although he can ask a union rep (if there is one) it's sometimes better to take a work colleague if this makes you feel more comfortable.

[andie_303]

Has he been informed of this meeting in writing and copies of all evidence they want to use against him provided? This needs to be done.

 

If not tell them to take a hike (perhaps more politely than that) until they do

[mariefab]

Some questions you should check into and bring up at the Disciplinary.

 

1. Is there a Company policy banning eating sweets etc. on the shop floor?

If there is:

a) Has your OH ever signed any document that states this?

b) Is it normal practice for people to eat sweets/chew gum etc. on the shop floor anyway? (It's certainly commonplace in the supermarkets I use.)

 

2. It it normal company policy for employees to be told to empty their pockets on the shop floor?

 

3. Is it company policy that employees must have receipts for any items in their pockets?

 

4. Is the Company aware that it is unlawful to victimise an employee for commencing a Grievance procedure?

[mariefab]

Do you have an email address for someone higher up in the Company than 'Mr Nasty'? Or for the personnel manager?

 

If you do, I suggest that you send them this:

 

Dear..............

 

Please accept this as a Grievance letter.

 

On 23rd September 2009 at approximately 7.15 I was on my shift stood by the pharmacy cleaning the floor. I had a packet of sweets in my inside pocket of my body warmer and I took one out of the packet and ate it. *manager* approached me and asked me what I was eating. I told him I was eating a sweet. He then proceeded to abruptly order me to empty my pockets. Matt bloggs in attendance. I emptied my pockets onto the back of till 1. Manager asked me if I had a receipt for the sweets. I replied "Yes, it should be in my locker". I put my things back in my pockets and went to the locker room.

 

I emptied my locker contents onto the floor and started sifting through all the many receipts and paperwork I had.

 

I did have a receipt which I thought had the sweets on it, but it was a different receipt for some tobacco bought the previous day.

 

Manager came into the locker room and asked me if I'd found it yet. I said no. He asked for the sweets, I handed them to him, asked him what he was doing with them, and he told me he was taking them to his office until I could find proof of purchase.

 

I carried on searching for the receipt and still couldn't find it. Manager returned around 8am and asked me when I bought them, and roughly how much I thought the shopping would have totalled. I replied roughly £30 as it was a weekly shop. Manager then left the room, I started to put my things back in my locker, upset and confused, and went outside for some air on my break.

 

I phoned Deputy Manager in tears to ask advice and Karl said if I could remember what till it was he would go back into the system and try and find the transaction to show the sweets were purchased.

 

I then returned to store and went to see personell. Manager and Personell Manager were in the office. Manager turned to me and said "as you know you have a disciplinary scheduled tomorrow for lateness. That won't be going ahead now. I am suspending you for gross misconduct. You won't be allowed back on the premises untill 2pm tomorrow where you will attend a disciplinary hearing for gross misconduct".

 

At that point I broke down and cried, Manager got up and left. Personell manager talked to me about representation and tried to help me to remember exactly when the sweets were purchased.

 

I was then escorted off the premises.

 

Is it normal Company policy for employees to be told to empty their pockets on the shop floor?

Is it Company policy that employees must have receipts for any items in their pockets?

 

 

I believe that I am being victimized by..................because I have commenced a Grievance procedure based on his bullying and harrassment of myself.

 

I would appreciate a response before the Disciplinary hearing.

 

Yours etc.

 

If you can't email this then print off a copy and hand it in at the start of the Disciplinary hearing.

Edited September 23, 2009 by mariefab
adding a line

[scousegeezer]

Deathbycrayons,

You have had some good advice in the posts above, asking about a code of conduct on the shop floor etc.

 

As far as his suspension is concerned, was he issued with a letter at the time of the verbal suspension; to confirm the suspension. Why was he not allowed time to get a union rep/ friend to attend the suspension meeting with him. The bullying manager cannot just change the purpose of the meeting scheduled for tomorrow and change it to a gross misconduct hearing. There has to be a time lapse of a reasonable length in order for the company to serve any evidence against your husband , in writing to him or his representative. WHAT EVIDENCE????? He was seen to be eating - NOT EVIDENCE - Cannot produce a receipt - NOT EVIDENCE. This bullying manager has broken all the rules/guidelines from ACAS - that I have to ask the question - HOW DID HE BECOME A MANAGER. Your husband should get in touch with his union immediately - there should be a helpline number on his unions web site. If not in a union, he should take a friend with him tomorrow and refuse to take part in a gross misconduct hearing. If the manager changes his mind in the meantime and states that the meeting is a discussion about an allegation of gross misconduct , tell your husband to say NOTHING. All he should say is that he has not stolen anything , but if the manager wishes to make an allegation of theft your husband should tell him he would be willing to answer any questions concerning any supposed evidence regarding the theft. HE WONT HAVE ANY QUESTIONS BECAUSE THERE IS NO EVIDENCE. TELL YOUR HUSBAND NOT TO VOLUNTEER ANYTHING - DO NOT GIVE UNNECESSARY INFORMATION . Answer questions briefly , with yes/no/ I have not stolen anything/ where is your evidence. It sounds to me as if this manager is going to hang himself. He is so out of order with what he is doing. HE MUST TAKE SOMEONE WITH HIM TOMORROW, SOMEONE WHO WILL REMAIN LEVEL HEADED AND OBJECTIVE.

 

Take care - Scousegeezer

[deathbycrayons]

Right - firstly - the sweets are their own brand sweets so could only have been bought at there.

 

Secondly, in the company staff handbook, it does state that for any food consumed on the premises you must have a receipt to prove you purchased them.

 

He has already put a grievance in against the manager, the same one who suspended him. He put it in last week.

 

He has been given written notice of the suspension and impending disciplinary.

 

He is taking a work colleague who is a union rep (and a damn good one) with him.

 

"2. It it normal company policy for employees to be told to empty their pockets on the shop floor?" - NO!! In the company staff handbook it states:

It is a condition of employment that you agree to submit random checks when required to do so by a member of the company's security personnel or management. A staff check is not an indication of a beleif in guilt but is a part of the company's security procedures. The check may include your person, bags and belongings, your locker, your desk and your car. In the rare circumstances where a check of your bags, your locker or desk needs to be conducted in your absence, an independant work colleague will always be present.

 

Al checks will be carried out discreetly and you can be accompanied by a ork colleague of your choice if you so request, although it will not be a reason to delay the check that the chosen representative is not present, or will not be present, within a reasonable time. There will always be two members of management conducting the check, with at least one manager of the same sex as the employee being checked.

[Button1]

Right - firstly - the sweets are their own brand sweets so could only have been bought at there.

 

Secondly, in the company staff handbook, it does state that for any food consumed on the premises you must have a receipt to prove you purchased them.

 

He has already put a grievance in against the manager, the same one who suspended him. He put it in last week.

 

He has been given written notice of the suspension and impending disciplinary.

 

He is taking a work colleague who is a union rep (and a damn good one) with him.

 

"2. It it normal company policy for employees to be told to empty their pockets on the shop floor?" - NO!! In the company staff handbook it states:

 

It is a condition of employment that you agree to submit random checks when required to do so by a member of the company's security personnel or management. A staff check is not an indication of a beleif in guilt but is a part of the company's security procedures. The check may include your person, bags and belongings, your locker, your desk and your car. In the rare circumstances where a check of your bags, your locker or desk needs to be conducted in your absence, an independant work colleague will always be present.

 

Al checks will be carried out discreetly and you can be accompanied by a ork colleague of your choice if you so request, although it will not be a reason to delay the check that the chosen representative is not present, or will not be present, within a reasonable time. There will always be two members of management conducting the check, with at least one manager of the same sex as the employee being checked.

 

On the premises.........I take it that means anywhere in the building including the staff room?? What?.......when you're eating a pre-prepared sandwich from home, you must prove where the ingredients were purchased?? I just wonder how they can enforce such a rulling??.........

 

Scenario........ you pop gum into your pocket from the kitchen table at home...........another member of your family purchased it........from where???........you're not to know.........you chew it at work.......get asked to provide a receipt........unable to do so as you didn't purchase it..........disciplinary hearing as you have broken clause 12 in the company handbook!! Ridiculous!

[scousegeezer]

Deathbycrayons,

OK, so he shops at the store because he gets staff discount and is probably the nearest supermarket to your home. YEP the staff have to keep receipts for purchases, but for how long. You buy food for his lunch box on Friday, is he supposed to carry the receipt with him the folloqwing week just to prove he has paid for his butties and tit bioots in his lunch box. LETS REMEMBER ONE THING HERE, he does not have to prove his innocence; the manager has to prove your hubb'ys guilt. So you bought the food the previous week and once you got home and checked your bill against the food in your bags , the receipt got thrown out. We all do it. This is not evidence of theft. MY OPINION - if the manager was so sure that your hubby had stolen the sweets - why did he not call the police and have him arrested. Theft by employee is severelyu punished at court. I'LL TELL YOU why, because there isnt any evidence. He just wants to pressurise your hubby into leaving. I thionk under the circumstances I would go all the way , leave and then sue for constructive dismissal. THE MANAGER HAS PRESSURED HIM INTO LEAVING - FORCED HIM OUT. As for the search on the shop floor , that is humiliating and the manager should have a complaint made about him and be disciplined.

 

Cheers - Scousegeezer.

[ErikaPNP]

Hello my love,

 

I would put the letter in that Mariefab has typed up - amend some bits to suit your situation, but instead of asking for it to be treated as a grievance, ask for it to be added to the grievance he submitted on XXXX date.

 

This behviour by the manager is absolutely disgraceful - and yes, it IS victimisation. He certainly appears to have some personal vendetta against your husband and is trying his damndest to force him out by finding something "on him". Could it be that he is aware your husband has raised a greivance? All this over a packet of sweets. I also agree (strongly) with what Scousegeezer has stated. Surely the retaining of a reciept would be for a "reasonable" period of time, not for the likes of this.

 

Forget the area manager who sees your husband's line manager as "butter would not melt" (I remember you saying he was his "golden boy) - get it right in to head office. They need to be made aware of this situation. without delay.

 

I would also question if it is appropriate for him to be present at the disciplinary meeting, given that your husband has raised a grievance against him.

[deathbycrayons]

Thanks so much everyone. The union rep is coming round to the house at 10 this morning (he's a friend), and we're going to discuss everything mentioned on this thread.

 

I also agree my husband should not mention that our daughter possibly took the sweets. I will keep everyone updated.

[Bookworm]

You got good advice there.

 

One thing your husband should remember: One of the most common interrogation practices is for the interrogator to say little. Most people are uncomfortable with silence and will speak just to fill the void. In a stressful situation, it is very easy to just start babbling and hang oneself. But it works both ways.

 

In the room, if no-one says anything, then hubby should say nothing. When he gets asked a question, answer shortly, politely and to the point, then wait for the next question. You'd be amazed how difficult it is to carry on an "interview" when the other person just answers on topic and no more.

 

(speaking as one whose husband will babble, go off-topic and say anything and everything when being asked direct questioned, and who I had to prep endlessly before an ET so he wouldn't wander. And still had to kick him under the table to make him shut up. ;-))

[deathbycrayons]

You got good advice there.

 

One thing your husband should remember: One of the most common interrogation practices is for the interrogator to say little. Most people are uncomfortable with silence and will speak just to fill the void. In a stressful situation, it is very easy to just start babbling and hang oneself. But it works both ways.

 

In the room, if no-one says anything, then hubby should say nothing. When he gets asked a question, answer shortly, politely and to the point, then wait for the next question. You'd be amazed how difficult it is to carry on an "interview" when the other person just answers on topic and no more.

 

(speaking as one whose husband will babble, go off-topic and say anything and everything when being asked direct questioned, and who I had to prep endlessly before an ET so he wouldn't wander. And still had to kick him under the table to make him shut up. ;-))

 

Thank you bookie Yep my hubby will surely babble - will have to get prepping. I won't be there at the disciplinary today, but his union rep will

[deathbycrayons]

By the way, also forgot to add, it WON'T (or at least shouldn't) be the nasty manager doing the hearing today. As there is a grievance against him so he won't be allowed. If he does turn up to do it, hubby will protest and get it re-scheduled.

[Bookworm]

Good.

 

Make sure that whoever is doing the procedure today is aware of the background though as it goes a long way towards undermining the manager's credibility.

[deathbycrayons]

These are the bulletpoints he is taking in with him.

 

Make them aware that you have raised a grievance against *manager* for bullying and victimization.

 

 

Make them aware of your mental state, and that you are still on relatively new medication.

 

 

Remind them that you have not stolen anything, and that you're only guilty of not keeping a receipt and eating a sweet whilst working.

 

 

Make them aware of your loyalty to the company.

 

 

Show remorse, even though you don't feel that you haven't done anything wrong.

 

 

Promise to never let it happen again and be more aware of keeping receipts and eat a more substansial breakfast.

[deathbycrayons]

We've just seen the manager's statement - and there are blatant lies in it!!

 

Also, the witness hasn't submitted his statement.

 

The manager stated that my husband told him he was chewing gum. He also told lies such as saying that hubby went into the warehouse, he said he told hubby to spit the chewing gum out, well that was a lie too.

 

He also said that hubby didn't empty all his pockets and that he had to 'ask him to empty them properly'. Well, hubby emptied his pockets all first time round.

 

Manager made out that hubby tried to hide the sweets.

[deathbycrayons]

They're now searching the till records for the transaction, using hubby's card number for the search. For god's sake.