Council PCN with transposed letters of number plate..is it Enforceable?

[lamma]

If it was just today it may not be on their system yet. when was it issued ? "The wrong VRN means you win, they can't fix it later."

[Wonkywood]

It was on Friday so hopefully that's enough time. So I just don't pay and don't notify them? Sorry to keep asking questions, Apcoa experience has jaded me!

[lamma]

How can you pay when its not in the system ? why would pay a PCN for a VRN of a vehicle that you don't own ? Would pay the PCNs for all the posters on here is they stuck theirs on your car ? give it till friday then send an informal rep just telling them that you found the PCN on your car the VRN in the PCN is wrong so you expect them to cancel it ASAP. Please don't tell me you are someone who believed 'the council is always right' - trust me (and others), they aren't.

[Wonkywood]

Haha, good point. If I win Euromillions I will

 

Thank you - appreciate the advice. And no, I think they're thieving unmalleable toerags who are trying to bleed me dry. I'm revelling in the opportunity to make the most of this.

[brightsus]

So the saga continues. Following the issue of a ticket with the wrong reg number, I got a "Notice to Owner" still with the wrong reg number.

I responded to that (kept copies) that i had never owned the vehicle.

 

Now they've sent a letter saying I need to prove I sold the vehicle (not my reg number again) or they'll register a debt in the county court.

 

Should I write back? I was thinking something along the lines of:

"In your letter to me regarding penalty notice BHxxxxxxxA you are factually inaccurate in that I did not state that I had sold the vehicle (xx99 YSL). I did in fact state that:

“I was never the owner of the vehicle in question”

by marking the box provided.

I have a copy of the for I returned to you and can provide this to you if required.

As I have NEVER OWNED the vehicle xx99 YSL it is impossible for me to provide the proof of sale as you have requested."

 

The original and inaccurate ticket was issued on 22/12/2009.

 

They really are pushing it. What fun!

 

Have they acted illegally?

Will this constitute harassment?

Have they broken any Data protection laws?

 

Thanks for your help!

[lamma]

with the wrong reg how the heck could they get your address ?

[brightsus]

with the wrong reg how the heck could they get your address ?

 

They have the photos of my car.

 

The reg is SO close even I did not see it at first. It's all correct apat from the last letter.

xx99 YSL as opposed to my actual reg number xx99 YSJ

 

Slight dyslexia will do that!

[lamma]

so you guarantee that the PCN and he NTO do not match ? you are not misreading an 'oh' and a 'zero' ?

[afcwben]

personally I would bin it

[lamma]

bad advice. never ever bin council paperwork. and always keep full copies of anything you send them.

[brightsus]

I guarantee that the ticket on my car did not have my registration number on it (the ticket reg no ending in a J not an L)

 

The NTO has the same registration number as the ticket (IE not mine)

 

The latest letter has the same registration as the ticket and the NTO (IE not mine)

 

Clearly they are trying it on. They're threatening court action!

 

Can I just confirm that the ticket is invalid if it has inaccuracies on it (EG inaccurate reg no) even though they have photo's of my car?

 

Thanks

[crem]

The PCN and NtO are both legal documents and as such must be accurate and cannot be ammended.

 

Maintain your position that you have never owned the vehicle in question.

[Michael Browne]

You could always check the reg no. at Askmid and see whether it corresponds with your make and model

 

ASKMID

[brightsus]

You could always check the reg no. at Askmid and see whether it corresponds with your make and model

 

ASKMID

 

Well I did that and, no surprise, it's NOT on the database. The registration number most likely does not even exist.

[crem]

Well I did that and, no surprise, it's NOT on the database. The registration number most likely does not even exist.

 

 

.. which suggests they have applied to the DVLA for your address using the number plate they could see on the photo, not the number plate on the PCN so they already know they are playing naughty!

[brightsus]

.. which suggests they have applied to the DVLA for your address using the number plate they could see on the photo, not the number plate on the PCN so they already know they are playing naughty!

 

I'm going to just keep on saying I never owned the car with that reg number.

See where they go with it.

[lamma]

I wonder where they got your address from ? It would be nice if this went to adjudication wouldn't it ?

[brightsus]

I wonder where they got your address from ? It would be nice if this went to adjudication wouldn't it ?

 

They got my registration number from the photos.

 

The sad thing is that it must be costing hundreds of pounds in administration for them to pursue this in the hope I'll just pay up and pay.

 

Although adjudication is not where I want to be, it would be interesting to see what happened.

[lamma]

"I wonder where they got your address from ?" if they sent to the DVLA for the RK details of a vehicle they haven't issued a PCN for then they must be in clear breach of the DPA - no reasonable cause. If they say the picture gives them reasonable cause then the PCN and NTO and attempted Fraud. they are between a large rock and a very hard place. keep that in mind, send in a rubbish appeal to the NTO and try to get them to adjudication

[brightsus]

"I wonder where they got your address from ?" if they sent to the DVLA for the RK details of a vehicle they haven't issued a PCN for then they must be in clear breach of the DPA - no reasonable cause. If they say the picture gives them reasonable cause then the PCN and NTO and attempted Fraud. they are between a large rock and a very hard place. keep that in mind, send in a rubbish appeal to the NTO and try to get them to adjudication

 

Thanks Lamma!

 

Just the sort of info I was looking for.

 

I've appealed the NtO with a "never owned the vehicle" response. They've asked me to provide proof that I sold the vehicle.

What a joke!

 

I'm going to leave the response to that until the last minute and tell them again I never owned the vehicle.

 

They've threatened County Court action to collect the "debt"!

 

I can imagine how the adjudication might go:

Adjudicator - "Do you own xx99 YSL?"

Me - "No, never have"

 

Adjudicator - "you have never owned xx99 YSL?"

Me - "No"

 

Adjudicator - "Mr Brighton and Hove City Council, WTF are you thinking!"

Mr BHCC - "It's not my fault, REALLY!...":confused:

[lamma]

The council can pay the DVLA for the full history of the vehicle they think you owned. I would write back and say you can't sell something you have never owned. And the council's failure to understand this means they have acted outwith reasonableness and rationality and so have failed that test of lawfulness in the exercise of their powers. Such a request from the council is not just patently absurd nonsense, it is also unlawful. Is what they sent you an NoR or just a letter ? or you could ignore it and let them dig a big hole for themselves whichever way they choose to go. what exact words did they use re county court action ?

[brightsus]

So Here is the letter they sent me:

Files attached

 

 

[lamma]

you got a copy of the completed NTO that you sent back ? (I hope everyone keeps copies of NTOs they send to councils). It does clearly show the 'I was never the owner' as being ticked ?

[brightsus]

you got a copy of the completed NTO that you sent back ? (I hope everyone keeps copies of NTOs they send to councils). It does clearly show the 'I was never the owner' as being ticked ?

 

Oh yeah, I have colour copies. CLEARLY showing the box ticked I was never the owner of the vehicle in question

 

They really are trying it on!

[lamma]

back to post 46 then. send them a second copy of the NTO, tell them they are wrong, that you never ticked the "I sold the vehicle' box. Remind then of the administrative law principles. tell them that if they do withdraw immediately you will claim costs at the TPT and pursue them civilly. Did they send appeal forms for adjudication ? I think not as it doesn't look like an NoR to me. And they talk about appealing a 'Charge Certificate' - total rubbish !! they are incompetent idiots and have given you several examples. thinking of that I would be tempted to to write back a simple letter telling them "I did not tick the 'I Sold the vehicle' box see the attached copy. You need to rethink your actions and use due care and attention. Yours xxxxxxx' and staple the copy of the NTO to the letter and write across it "Second copy sent on nn/xxxx/nnnn". just that and let them screw up again !. and of course keep full copies of everything you send including the written on second copy of the NTO.