need advice re enhanced crb checks

[Sidewinder]

Hi Rubles - Are you trying to make me blush?

 

I am absolutely delighted for you. Thankfully you can now enjoy Christmas and the future with this worry behind you.

 

Happy to have helped in some small way.

[storageguy]

Now if this did show up on the CRB check, which in probility it wont. It is a criminal cheack, the information is collected for the centeral data base (Sorry, mate told me what its called, but cant remember) There was not a crime commited.

 

Anyway, you have a couple of options, its clear, that you did not intend to put your child in harms way. You could wait and then let your school know what happened, or let them know now.

 

Its like the Eastenders plot. Tony had commited a crime, hit an 18 year old, it came up on his CRB, but he still was offered employmet. I think common sence will pervale on this one!

Edited December 15, 2008 by storageguy
Website did not show compleat thread... Glad its sorted

[musicsmith]

Hi All

 

It's interesting to read all your posts. So many people who are good people, good parents, uncles, aunts and members of the public. Why then do we need anything other than a report for those who abuse children, the elderly or any venrable people.

 

So many people get criminal records whilst young, then turn their lives around but are then unable to even become a lollypop person. I can't.

 

Whatever happened to the priciples of the 'Rehabilitation of Offenders Act'?

 

How can we get the youngsters of today to turn their lives around if they already have a record. What's the point? It'll be on their record for the rest of their lives, When they get to the ripe old age of sixty, they still won't be alowed to be a lolly pop person!

[richardm1973]

It's unfortunate that there is some bad advice on here...People are confusing standard disclosure with enhanced disclosure. The difference being that enhanced disclosure allows the police to mention non-convictions and police 'intelligence'. If you apply for a SAR, it is very unlikely the police intelligence will show up on it.

 

It is very worrying that careers can be ruined on rumour, malicious calls or (intelligence) /gossip alone without ever having set foot in a court room...

 

I'm a solicitor, law teacher and victim of all of this. I've never been convicted of anything yet my law teaching career is ruined. I've never been convicted of anything and have done nothing wrong but was once arrested and then released for indecent exposure. It was mistaken identity and I was released without charge.

I guess it's all all right so long as it doesn't happen to you!

[jojo1964]

I`m starting to really worry now. I filled in an enhanced disclosure form for a care related job the other day and proudly told the interviewer i had not so much as a parking ticket. Then later that evening i started to worry about a period about 12 years ago when my ex-husband was trying to make my life very difficult and get custody of my Son. My Son had some bruises on his legs from football and larking around with his mates but his Dad insisted i had done it and took him to the police station. I got a visit from a WPC and a social worker. After they talked to me and my older daughter on her own. My daughter told them her Dad was just making it up. The WPC almost laughed it off and realised what was going on. She clearly said that she wasn`t going any further with it and i don`t even remember her writing anything down.

A couple of years later my Son apologised and said his Dad made him go to the police and mentioned they took photos of his bruises.

I am now feeling sick about all of this. My future employers have told me to hand my notice in but i feel uneasy about that as i couldn`t afford to be without a job. The CRB may take up to 2 months so they could fire me after i`ve started there.

I`m not sure whether i should just ring them and tell them i have remembered this period when my ex was trying to spread malicious stuff about me and see what their take on it is.

Help.

[debt4get]

if you were never arrested or charged for any of the alleged offences then I would not worry bout it, this will not show up on an ecrb check, stop worrying and good luck with the new job

[patdavies]

if you were never arrested or charged for any of the alleged offences then I would not worry bout it, this will not show up on an ecrb check, stop worrying and good luck with the new job

 

If you are not arrested or charged then it won't show up on a standard CRB; it may show up on an enhanced CRB as these have local force intelligence where relevant which only requires information, rather than arrest.

 

For jojo1964 though, I would suggest that she has little to worry about. I would not inform the employer now, as you have probably already signed an application form stating no arrests/convictions - and that remains true. IOW, don't muddy the waters.

 

Even if it does show up, it is

 

a) not a bar to working, given its age and the NFA by the authorities, and

b) as long as the application form stated arrests and/or convictions they can't dismiss you for lying on the form.

[jojo1964]

I see what you`re saying pat but how can i explain that i am unwilling to hand my notice in yet as they have said i can start training and am able to shadow other staff in the meantime? I feel it looks as if i have something to hide.

It`s a bit of a dilema for me. On the onehand i have told them it will all be fine and there again an ECRB could have a record of this and i don`t know how they will view it - they may have a company policy of only employing people with an absolutely squeeky clean past. Which i have in my opinion but who knows how it was worded by the police at the time - if at all?

Can you explain what you mean by NFA?

[debt4get]

just to put your mind at rest I was actually arrested for an alleged drug offence which I did not commit, spent 6hours in a cell whilst they tore my mums house apart, eventually released no charges, cautions nothing

I hold and enhanced crb check as I am now a teacher and even this did not show up on enhanced crb even though I know it happened

like I said dont worry the chances of it showing up are virtually nil

[debt4get]

I dont know what else to tell u jojo unless you really want to get this off your chest to new employer and tell them before you hand in notice what happened all those years ago due to an aggrieved husband

like i said personally Id leave it and get on with the new job

[jojo1964]

I know. I want to get on with it. I really appreciate your advice. I just can`t help worrying though as once i hand my notice in at my current job there is no going back and i can`t afford a week without income.

I think the post by richardm1973 made me worry.

[patdavies]

Can you explain what you mean by NFA?

 

NFA = No Further Action

[callumsgran]

The only time you have to worry about things showing up on a CRB is if you were actually cautioned and then it all depends on whether it is relevant to the job you are applying for

So dont worry too much

[patdavies]

The only time you have to worry about things showing up on a CRB is if you were actually cautioned

 

I'm sorry callumsgran, but this is flat out wrong.

 

As I tried to explain above, for an enhanced CRB, reference will be made to the relevant Constabulary for any intelligence that they may hold in addition to any convictions/cautions on record.

 

For a standard CRB, all convictions and cautions will show, but nothing else

[callumsgran]

Pat i beg to differ, i have had many enhanced CRB's done on myself and was questioned (by the police) about an incident involving me reprimanding another person's child 20 years ago and it's never shown up

However an incident i was cautioned for has often, but not always shown up, although i have always explained beforehand that it may well do and the mitigating circumstances behind it

[mini-muma]

has anyone experienced mistaken identity on an enhanced CRB? same first and last name, different middle name and different date of birth! My friend is about to lose his job after being suspended until it is sorted out due to this error. CRB office are taking so long to sort it out and are now awaiting an investigation by the police. any advice?

[voice]

hi guys wondering if anyone can help me? I know this is a long post but I thought I’d give you all the info you need to give me your advise

 

when i was younger, about 17-18 maybe i was stupid stole some money, got caught and arrested, was taken to court and convicted and got 2 yrs probation and a big fine.. i done the 2 years and paid the fine without further incident. i have been in no further trouble with the police..

 

however in about 1999 one of my neighbours called up social services and told them i was hitting my son because she saw bruising on his arm.. they went to my sons school, made him take his top off looked at the bruise and decided to come and visit me

 

2 of them arrived had a chat with me while my youngest who was about 2 at the time played about around me.. as far as i was concerned we had nothing to worry about as nothing un-toward happened, he got the bruise one day when i had to grab his arm, i had gone for his rucksack but got his arm when he stepped out in the road and i had to pull him back..

 

this was all explained to the social workers but i guess they didn’t believe us because one social worker started coming round to see my eldest and us as a family.. he came a few times and took my son out for a meal and a 'chat', presumably asking him what's it like at home are you happy and whatever else.. i don't really know as i was never told and my son refused to talk about it, i also didn't want anyone to think i was questioning my son about it all..

 

anyway after the social worker was satisfied my son was ok that was that and we didn't see him anymore, i remember going to an office and signing something, i guess it was signing the case off. I'm not great with my memory and even though it was a big event in our lives i wasn't well at the time and for some years later and i really have very little recollection of those events and what happened..

 

i was never cautioned, arrested or anything like that but its a worry..

 

i am now 40 years old and on a university degree to become a health care professional so i have to have an enhanced CBR check.. i have no problem telling them about the conviction when i was a youngster and i hope they realise people really do change but the other matter is really very worrying

 

i really don't know what to do because we have been told if you don't declare something and it pops up you will be in serious trouble and could get removed from the course..

 

i know they said tell us about convictions and cautions but seeing as i've read this entire thread it seems that lots of things 'might' show up.. i have to hand my form to them next month..

 

Hope someone can put my mind at ease

[MRSWESTHAM]

Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974

(reproduced by kind permission of NACRO)

 

The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 enables some criminal convictions to become 'spent', or ignored, after a 'rehabilitation period'.

A rehabilitation period is a set length of time from the date of conviction. After this period, with certain exceptions, an ex-offender is not normally obliged to mention their conviction when applying for a job or obtaining insurance, or when involved in criminal or civil proceedings.

The Act is more likely to help people with few and/or minor convictions because of the way further convictions extend the rehabilitation period. People with many convictions, especially serious convictions, may not benefit from the Act unless the last convictions are very old.

Rehabilitation Periods

 

The length of the rehabilitation period depends on the sentence given - not the offence committed. For a custodial sentence, the length of time actually served is irrelevant: the rehabilitation period is decided by the original sentence. Custodial sentences of more than 2 1/2 years can never become spent.

The following sentences become spent after fixed periods from the date of conviction:

SentenceRehabilitation Period People aged

18 or over

when convictedPeople aged

17 and under

when convictedPrison sentences of 6 months or less7 years3 1/2 yearsPrison sentences of more than

6 months to 2 1/2 years10 years5 yearsBorstal (abolished in 1983)7 years7 yearsDetention centres (abolished in 198:cool:3 years3 yearsFines,

probation,

compensation,

community service,

combination action plan,

curfew orders,

drug treatment and testing,

and reparation orders5 years2 1/2 yearsAbsolute discharge6 months6 months

Including suspended sentences, youth custody (abolished in 198:cool: and detention in a young offender institution.

Even if subsequently imprisoned for fine default.

For people convicted on or after 3 February 1995 (from which date the rehabilitation period for a probation order was changed under the terms of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994).

With some sentences the rehabilitation period varies:

SentenceRehabilitation PeriodProbation , supervision, care order,

conditional discharge or bind-over1 year or until the order expires

(whichever is longer)Attendance centre orders1 year after the order expiresHospital orders (with or without

a restriction order)5 years or 2 years after the order expires

(whichever is longer)Referral Orderonce the order expires

For people convicted before 3 February 1995

Disqualifications

 

The rehabilitation period for a disqualification is the length of the disqualification. If a person is disqualified at the same time as receiving another penalty, the longer rehabilitation period applies. (For example, if a motorist is banned from driving for seven years and fined - which takes five years to become spent - the rehabilitation period would be seven years, not five years.)

Endorsements

 

An endorsement is not a 'disability, prohibition or other penalty' within the meaning of the Act, and therefore it cannot affect the rehabilitation period of a motoring conviction. So, for example, if a motorist is fined for drink driving and has his or her licence endorsed, the rehabilitation period would be five years (the length applicable to the fine) rather than 11 years (the length of time before a driver convicted of drink driving is entitled to a clean driving licence).

Further Convictions

 

If a rehabilitation period is still running and the person concerned commits a minor offence (a 'summary' offence that can only be tried in a magistrates' court), the minor offence will not affect the rehabilitation period still running. The rehabilitation period for each offence will expire separately. (For example, if someone had received a two year probation order, then one year later was fined for a minor offence, the probation order would become spent before the fine. Therefore once the probation order was spent, only the fine would need to be disclosed until it became spent.)

However, if the further offence is one that could be tried in the Crown Court, then neither conviction (even if the first one is for a minor offence) will become spent until the rehabilitation periods for both offences are over. (For example, if someone had received a two year probation order, then one year later was fined for a serious offence, both convictions would have to be disclosed until the fine became spent.) If the further conviction leads to a prison sentence of more than 2 1/2 years, neither conviction will ever become spent.

Once a conviction becomes spent, it remains spent, even if a person is convicted of other offences later.

 

Concurrent and consecutive sentences

If an offender receives two or more prison sentences in the course of the same proceedings, the rehabilitation period will depend on whether they run concurrently or consecutively. For example two 6 month terms ordered to run consecutively are treated as a single term of 12 months, giving a rehabilitation period of 10 years. But two such sentences ordered to take effect concurrently are treated as one sentence of 6 months, giving a rehabilitation period of 7 years.

 

Prison sentences ordered to run consecutively to sentences already being served are not affected by this rule.

Criminal Records

 

A person's offence will still remain on the Police National Computer even after it has become spent - it will not be deleted. Broadly, according to the guidelines from the Association of Chief Police Officers, records of 'recordable' offences (i.e. offences which can be tried in the Crown Court, whether or not they are) should be deleted after 10 years, unless they show that the offender has 3 or more convictions for recordable offences (in which case the record will be kept for 20 years); has been given custodial sentences (in which case the record will be kept for life); has been convicted of indecency, sexual offences, violence, possession of Class A drugs, or trafficking in, importing of or supply of any drug (in which case the record will be kept for life); been found unfit to plead by reason of insanity, or has been sentenced under the Mental Health Acts (in which case the record will be kept for life); been convicted of an offence involving a child or vulnerable adult where the MO indicates that the person deliberately targets such people ( in which case the record will be kept for life).

Individual Chief Constables are not bound by the ACPO guidelines so polict and practice will vary between police forces.

Criminal records are generally kept confidential. Broadly, vetting is limited to protecting vulnerable people; to ensuring the probity of the administration of justice; and to matters of national security. This means, for example, that private employers will not usually have access to criminal records. However this is due to change in July 2002 when any employer will be able to obtain details of unspent convictions. Applicants for taxi, heavy goods vehicle and passenger service vehicle licences should also be vetted. (See 'Criminal Record Checks' by NACRO)

Cautions

 

Cautions, reprimands and final warnings are not criminal convictions and so are not dealt with by the Act. So if people with cautions, reprimands or final warnings only are asked whether they have any 'criminal convictions' they can answer 'no'. Sometimes people are asked if they have a 'criminal record'. This is a less precise term, but it is usually understood to mean convictions. So people who are asked if they have a 'criminal record' may also answer 'no' if they have no convictions.

However, people who are specifically asked if they have cautions, reprimands or final warnings should disclose them until they are deleted from police records. Records of cautions should be deleted after five years if there are no convictions on the record. (In practice, some police forces may retain records of cautions for much longer than this or indefinitely.)

Benefits Of The Act

 

Applying For Jobs

 

Applicants with a criminal record who are asked on an application form or at an interview whether they have any previous convictions can answer 'no' if the convictions are spent and the job applied for is not excepted from the Act. Under the terms of the Act, a spent conviction shall not be proper grounds for not employing - or for sacking - someone. (If on the other hand, job applicants do not disclose unspent convictions, if asked to do so, they may be found out, dismissed on the grounds of having deceived the employer - and possibly prosecuted.)

The Act does not provide any means of enforcing a person's right not to be refused employment (or entry into a profession) on the grounds of a spent conviction. If, however, an employee can prove that they have been dismissed for a spent conviction and they have been in employment a year or more, they may be able to claim unfair dismissal under employment legislation.

Applying For Insurance

 

If the proposal form asks whether the applicant has any previous convictions, the answer can be 'no' if the convictions are spent. This is the case even if the conviction is relevant to the risk which the insurers will underwrite. (For example, spent motoring convictions are not required on a proposal form for motor insurance.)

Civil Proceedings

 

In civil proceedings, no-one should be asked questions which might lead to disclosure of spent convictions. If such questions are asked, they need not be answered. This rule does not apply:

in civil proceedings relating to children (adoption, guardianship, wardship, marriage, custody, care and control, schooling);when the court is satisfied that justice cannot be done unless evidence of spent convictions is admitted (NB anyone who has spent convictions can always consent to evidence being given about them);if the proceedings involve a matter excepted from the ActThe rule on civil proceedings applies not only to ordinary courts, but also to arbitration proceedings, disciplinary proceedings before an administrative tribunal, and to a club committee which has powers to affect anyone's rights, privileges, obligations, or liabilities.

Criminal Proceedings

 

Previous convictions can be cited in criminal proceedings, even if they are spent. The Lord Chief Justice and the Home Office have, however, advised the courts that spent convictions should not be mentioned except in very special circumstances.

Confidential Information

 

The Act makes it an offence for anyone with access to criminal records to disclose spent convictions unless authorised to do so. The Act makes it a more serious offence to obtain such information by means of fraud, dishonesty or bribe. The Data Protection Act 1984, as amended by the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994, also makes it an offence to procure or supply confidential computer data.

It might be possible for a person with spent convictions to sue for libel anyone making allegations about spent convictions, if he or she can prove that the allegation was made with malice.

Exceptions To The Act

 

There are some situations in which people will be expected to declare their convictions, even if they are spent. Some of the principal ones are:

Appointment to any post providing accommodation, care, leisure and recreational facilities, schooling, social services, supervision or training to people aged under 18. Such posts include teachers, school caretakers, youth and social workers, child minders.Employment involving providing social services to elderly people, mentally or physically disabled people, alcohol or drug misusers or the chronically sick.Appointment to any office or employment involving the administration of justice, including police officers, probation officers, traffic wardens.Admission to certain professions which have legal protection (including lawyers, doctors, dentists, nurses, chemists, and accountants).Appointment to jobs where national security may be at risk (for example, certain posts in the civil service, defence contractors).Application forms for posts which are excepted from the Act should always make this clear, although some employers claim posts are excepted when they are not. If in doubt, seek advice.

Going Abroad

 

The Act only covers Britain. Other countries have their own rules about those they will give visas and work permits to. Embassies or overseas employment agencies should have information about this.

 

Found this hope it helps

[debt4get]

unfortunately the rehabilitation of offenders act does not apply to enhanced disclosures

[MRSWESTHAM]

arrr okdidnt know that, have googled it and it seems you can obtain our own copy of what they hold on you I would hve a look at this first ?

[troglodyte]

I have a CRB for a mental health issue does this mean im a criminal it came up on my CRB for a job as foster carer which i did not apply for i visit my son and my ex is a foster carer who has a foster child.

 

I am an unemployed postgraduate does this mental health issue which i have recovered which was only a 3 week illness mean that i cannot find employment again because of the story some bystander told the police about me when i was ill. I had anxiety and stress i feel this has wrecked my chances of employment though im educated! Please advice me!

[debt4get]

no this will not affect your employment chances..if anything is shown on crb you would be given the chance to explain the situation to employer or potential employer

[troglodyte]

If i applied for a job with a distant mental health issue and applied for a job not appropriate to children would the enhanced CRB still say i have a mental health issue. Even if the job was say a clerical worker?

[debt4get]

dont really understand why you would need a ecrb if you are not in contact with or working with children or vulnerable people..if you know the mental health issue is on there for defo..then the best course of action is to inform your employer of this before ecrb comes back..honesty is the best policy in this case

[troglodyte]

does the CRB disclose a mental health issue if the job was for something like the DWP that i have applied for which is working for the government as a clerical officer, should i inform them even though for this the police should not disclose!

 

The police could be horrible and disclose for say a clerical worker. And i dont tell my employer then they find out, it seems im an im poster for being ill.