Telephone harassment - an action plan

[FlyboyAgain]

there's an old story of a old and a young bull standing on the top of a hill and looking down over a herd of cows and the young bulls says

 

" look at that, lets run down and f**K one of them "

 

The old bull smiles and replies "No, lets WALK down and F**K them all"!

 

 

set your sights on winning the war- dont blow all your ammunition on winning small battles!

 

I know that joke well!

 

I've just spoken to BT about this and am off to the local station tomorrow and, as stated, to my brief. I think it's worth a legal swipe.

 

Thanks for your asistance; I wasn't wanting to appear ungrateful but I am livid with this DCA's behaviour!

[FlyboyAgain]

Hello FlyboyAgain!

 

 

If the Police do get interested, then they may be able to gain access to a log of the DCA's outbound Calls. Then they will match that to your log, and that will nail them when they see many match (some may not if, say, the DCA has used a Mobile for some of the Calls).

 

The fact that many of the calls were taken at your end, i.e. you lifted the receiver, means the other end will have incurred an auditable charge, so the call will be logged somewhere like, say, BT or whoever their carrier is!

 

That's the real evidence, but your own log will nail them if the Police get as far as matching the call carrier's billing call records to your observations.

 

 

 

Have been advised bt BT that the Force Intelligence Bureau part of the police force will become involved.

 

This starts now. I will post back periodically to update on porgress.

[AnimalMagic]

Flyboy,

 

I suggest you do take it to the police. I feel you will get nowhere, but then you write a complaint to the chief constable with the quote from the case above... If it becomes a political issue, then the poor ol PC will be compelled to take action.

 

I think ultimately you will need to take the DCA to court yourself.

 

As for your manual logs, these will be accepted by the courts. You will only need corroboration if the other side disputes them. I had an allegation of harassment in my particulars and the other side didn't attempt to dispute them. It may be safer though to invest £100 in truecall to be sure...

 

Regards

[diddydicky]

good luck - keep calm - don't give the impression that you are on a "crusade"

 

let us know how you get on

[FlyboyAgain]

I will keep this thread updated. And thanks for all your input and advice so far.

[lawtcrav]

In Ferguson -v- British Gas [2009]. Mrs Ferguson was chased by BG for a non existent debt. The Court of Appeal awarded her £10,000 plus costs for harrasment by BG, by virtue of the Protection from Harrasment Act 1997.

 

The case is interesting because it is about erroneous debt collection practices and referrals to credit reference agencies.

 

You can download the case from the British & Irish Legal Institute's (BAILI) website. A link to the case is below.

Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46 (10 February 2009)

 

There is also another case which name I do not know whereby the harasser was ordered to pay the "debtor" over £100,000 because he had been forced into a mortgage at exhorbitant rates because of referrals to credit reference agencies. As soon as I have the case I shall post its location here.

[AnimalMagic]

There is also another case which name I do not know whereby the harasser was ordered to pay the "debtor" over £100,000 because he had been forced into a mortgage at exhorbitant rates because of referrals to credit reference agencies. As soon as I have the case I shall post its location here.

 

This one would have a particular interest to me, so posting a link would result in much gratitude

[FlyboyAgain]

In Ferguson -v- British Gas [2009]. Mrs Ferguson was chased by BG for a non existent debt. The Court of Appeal awarded her £10,000 plus costs for harrasment by BG, by virtue of the Protection from Harrasment Act 1997.

 

The case is interesting because it is about erroneous debt collection practices and referrals to credit reference agencies.

 

Fanatstic. I shall cite this case when I meet the Law later on today, just in case they start fudging.! Might just let my DCA chums know about it, too!

[diddydicky]

i think we should keep a sense of proportion here- this case was vastly different- it was the pursuit of someone who was totally unconnected to the debt being chased.

 

In our cases (the vast majority) the debts do exist (albiet some of them will be disputed) and the creditor (will argue) does have a RIGHT to use the information supplied willingly by the debtor to try and contact them and for that reason alone the "harrassment" would have to be more than a"weeks worth" of telephone calls and a few ignored letters.

 

i'm not defending them in any way shape or form nor am i saying that this makes harassment acceptable but what i am saying is that our situation is totally different from that in British gas .

 

It will be interesting to see the police response and noting the response above from Banker I'd be interested to see if flyboy gets a CRN at this stage of his complaint!

[AnimalMagic]

Flyboy earlier stated:

My bank has started the calls again, even though they have not supplied the correct documentation I have asked them for. They're getting the 'Harassment' letter right away today.

 

If the account is in dispute, and the alleged debtor has issued the tel harassment letter, then they are harassing. The DCAs behaviour is also a breach of the OFT guidelines and most likely a breach of the DCA's code of conduct and the Banking Code. Flyboy's solicitor (hopefully) should give him an indication of likely success or not. I suspect the Police will not be interested, but I would like to know how they react to the clause in the judgement I quoted earlier

[FlyboyAgain]

i think we should keep a sense of proportion here- this case was vastly different- it was the pursuit of someone who was totally unconnected to the debt being chased.

 

I

!

They were awarded costs for harassment; it's irrelvant whether they were the actual debtor or not.

Edited June 3, 2009 by FlyboyAgain
spelling

[FlyboyAgain]

 

In our cases (the vast majority) the debts do exist (albiet some of them will be disputed) and the creditor (will argue) does have a RIGHT to use the information supplied willingly by the debtor to try and contact them and for that reason alone the "harrassment" would have to be more than a"weeks worth" of telephone calls and a few ignored letters.

 

 

 

I disagree. Nobody has the right to pester anyone verbally in person, by letter, by e-mail or via telcomms. The DCA are not being ignored but have been asked (for years) to conduct all correspondence in writing. They chose not to do so and continue to call, knowing they will get no response. If that's not harassment I don't know what is.

 

I'll let you all know how I get on and how I intend to proceed, but I'm not letting this go.

[diddydicky]

no one is asking you to let this go flyboy - people just offering different ways to skin a rabbit!

 

good luck

[diddydicky]

They were awarded costs for harassment; it's irrelvant whether they were the actual debtor or not.

 

nice thought but it doesnt actually work like that im afraid!

[AnimalMagic]

If you are a debtor, then you need to show they are acting unreasonably. IMHO if you have disputed the debt and asked that they only contact you by letter, then persistent tel calls become harassment.

 

They will argue that they have the right to pursue you for the debt, however I would argue that the debt is in dispute, therefore they need to justify their allegation that you owe money. If they fail to justify the debt, they should not continue until they can resolve the dispute. If they cannot, then they should drop the action or take you to court.

 

I would continue to collect as much evidence as possible, and if they do take you to court, include all evidence of unreasonable behaviour and you may well be able to counter-claim.

 

Of course, I am not a solicitor...

[diddydicky]

spot on animalmagic- i was merely pointing out that evidence of one weeks worth of calls was not enough!

 

plus the money seems no problem so a truecall or similar would provide all the ammunition he needs PLUS he wont be disturbed whilst he is gathering it

[moneymouth77]

I think it's to do with when YOU make clear, as a debtor, that you find the constant phoning to be harassment. Once you've made that clear, and start recording phone calls, keeping a phone log, they will be careful. You have the right to CLAIM harassment at any time, it's whether it is understood by a court to be harassment. I always claim harassment if I have been called more than once in any given day, and I never get any more after that. My recommendation!

[AnimalMagic]

So Flyboy, don't keep us in suspense...!

[The GodMother]

I can say i won a harrassement case against C1. They settled outta court but its still a win.

 

Also as part of the settlement they closed my account at a loss and still had to pay me.

 

they were arguing they had stopped calling me so when i requested via the courts that they supply the list of calls they panicked and gave in. I have been told it is because they new they had been calling me.

 

My original claim was £300. i got over £600 on the fact they cleared my card of a set amount wrote of the rest of the balance paid the court fees for the order and give me money. what more could i want?

[thesayregroup]

I have seen recently that they have been calling my cell phone non-stop with harassing calls trying to do payday loans, etc. I think telemarketing agencies have been slow in switching over to cell phones as I though they would do it quicker. Do not call lists do not work anymore as now many companies are getting random phone numbers or even more targeted phone numbers by "spidering" or scanning the internet with programs.

[FlyboyAgain]

So Flyboy, don't keep us in suspense...!

 

 

Well. it appears Diddydicky, being ex HMP, was correct: police have advised they would not, at this stage, consider an investigation. Rather, they advised contacting my lawyer and Trading Standards in the first instance, which I was both going to do, anyway. They did say that if there was no satisfaction after these processes had been followed that they would look at the case in greater detail.

 

So, civil matter it is, for now. Papers with my brief for his consideration. I hope to have a meeting with him next week.

[FlyboyAgain]

I can say i won a harrassement case against C1. They settled outta court but its still a win.

 

Also as part of the settlement they closed my account at a loss and still had to pay me.

 

they were arguing they had stopped calling me so when i requested via the courts that they supply the list of calls they panicked and gave in. I have been told it is because they new they had been calling me.

 

My original claim was £300. i got over £600 on the fact they cleared my card of a set amount wrote of the rest of the balance paid the court fees for the order and give me money. what more could i want?

 

Excellent result! I have been told that there is a certain division within BT (can't remember the name)that can be approached to supply the DCAs call logs and I will be following that avenue.

[AnimalMagic]

Well. it appears Diddydicky, being ex HMP, was correct: police have advised they would not, at this stage, consider an investigation. Rather, they advised contacting my lawyer and Trading Standards in the first instance, which I was both going to do, anyway. They did say that if there was no satisfaction after these processes had been followed that they would look at the case in greater detail.

 

So, civil matter it is, for now. Papers with my brief for his consideration. I hope to have a meeting with him next week.

 

Thought this might be the case, but I am surprised they invited you to come back. Things may be looking up or you just got the right copper.

 

Excellent result! I have been told that there is a certain division within BT (can't remember the name)that can be approached to supply the DCAs call logs and I will be following that avenue.

 

I tried this a few weeks back and got an Indian sounding chap. He claimed they couldn't do anything and advised I sign up with the TPS. When I said I was already signed up, he claimed you have to re register every couple of years - total nonsense. My number showed as already registered. He claimed they couldn't see incoming calls, which is also not true. Back in 2005 we contacted the same dept over withheld number calls and they were able to trace them. I suspect you will not get very far with BT, but do feel free to suprise me!

[AnimalMagic]

I can say i won a harrassement case against C1. They settled outta court but its still a win.

 

Yes, I had tel harassment in my defence a couple of years back. The Bank settled just before the hearing. I was hoping there was a case on here as it looks like I may have to take action against RBS and I would like a POC for tele harassment.

[FlyboyAgain]

Yes, I had tel harassment in my defence a couple of years back. The Bank settled just before the hearing. I was hoping there was a case on here as it looks like I may have to take action against RBS and I would like a POC for tele harassment.

 

Well, I'll keep you all here abreast of my case. Thing is, if enough of us do it and follow it through and get these cases to court and win them, then citing such cases to DCAs AND banks who are harassing us will give them cold feet!