Please Help: Going to court with PC World ?

[dsz]

Hi Folks,

 

Having followed the forum guidance on faulty and not fit-for-purpose goods, I am now at a crossroads with the artistes under scutiny. Original at the foot of this letter. The Philips x56 laptop is a shed after 2 months.

 

Response from PCWORLD is for the company to provide and pay for independent technical assessment of the damage to the screen only (one of three faults) - they have not answered any of my questions....

 

All guidance gratefully appreciated,

 

dsz.

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

RE: Purchase of Philips x56 notebook Receipt number: XXXXXX (copy of receipt attached) I am claiming a full cash refund on the product Under Breach of Contract under The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulation 2002.

 

a) I purchased a new model and after one month the paint was wearing from the mousing surface, making it impossible for me to use this for business presentations. b) The Hard Drive capacity is 69.9 Gb as opposed to the stated 80Gb. c) The operating system failed on 01-01-2007 and took a day to recover to a useable state using the recovery system. d) On 10th February 2007, the laptop was opened and a crack was heard.

 

This was the sound of the notebook screen cracking under normal operating conditions. As a laptop user of some five years without event, and the Chief Executive Officer of a computer-driven XXX company, I explained my business requirements very clearly to your sales staff regarding build quality, appearance and uptime.

 

None of the above potentials for failure were explained at the time of purchase, as the sales representative stated that these laptops were robust.

 

• Customer Services were contacted on the 11th February, and I was redirected to The TechGuys. They offered to bring the laptop in for assessment on 13th February, and stated that the number of faults that had appeared could mean that the laptop was of substandard build.

• I was redirected by The TechGuys back to customer services, to ask for a refund.

• Customer services sent me into the local Bolton store to present the laptop to the General Manager to ask for a refund or credit note.

• The General Manager refused to even assess the situation, stating that it was my fault that I had not purchased the PC protection package.

• The laptop was picked up by the TechGuys on 13th February, and on 16th February I was contacted by PC World stating that the screen damage was accidental and was not liable under warranty. No statement was made about the paint missing on the mousing surface or the hard drive capacity.

 

• My PA contacted PC World Customer Services to request from you a refund or credit note in order to avoid legal action, and was given the customer services postal address. No statement from PC World was given regarding your further intentions with the laptop and it is still in your possession.

• The Laptop was returned to me on 19th February with the Service Report and TechGuys Inspection Report, advising that the cracks in the LCD screen were not caused by a manufacturing defect, and as such were not covered by the manufacturers warranty.

 

Please note the statements regarding:

A. The flimsy nature of the x56 screen at Philips Freevents X56 review - IT Reviews

B. What most manufacturers have done to the screen casing to prevent screen failure at Don’t Be Surprised When Your Laptop Breaks - Editorial - CIO

C. The quality of the paint IT Reviews - Discussion Forum - Philips X56 (page 6)

 

Resolution of this matter

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and assume that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

I will give you 14 days from the date of this letter to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.

If you do not respond positively within this time period, our company solicitors, {XXXXX} are instructed to lodge a claim against you for the full amount of the notebook and interest plus my costs and without further notice in the appropriate Small Claims Court.

I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

As an act of good will to avoid the need for legal recourse [XXX] is willing today to accept a full refund for the notebook in the form of a credit note that we can redeem at our convenience in any PC World store against any goods including goods on discounted sale and/or special offer. If this is acceptable I will accept a faxed reply today as confirmation via the contact details above.

 

There will be no further communication from me and [company lawyers] will issue a claim at the expiry of the deadline.

Yours faithfully

 

dsz

[Advoc8]

Was this bought by your business or for use in your business? If so the consumer regulations don't apply, but the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 does imply terms relating to quality and fitness for purpose.

[dsz]

Hi Advoc8

 

It was bought for use in the business..., by a consumer, to be transferred to the business on purchase...i.e. I bought it out of my own cash on expenses, but it is a business tool, lol!

[Advoc8]

You'll more than likely run into problems - this is the definition of 'consumer' in the regulations:

 

 

"consumer" means any natural person who, in the contracts covered by these Regulations, is acting for purposes which are outside his trade, business or profession;

 

Your proposed letter makes it very plain that you've made the purchase as a business purpose.

[dsz]

so ?

[blacksheep1979]

also hard drives don't ever show the full capacity after being formatted - also as Advoc8 says the rules are different for business purchases.

[dsz]

Thnks - please point me to the Advoc8 link...

[dsz]

Thnks - please point me to the Advoc8 link...

Also 10Gb is a bit much don't you think ?

[Advoc8]

You're claiming the refund on the basis that you made a purchase as a consumer but your letter then goes on to make it clear that it was in fact a business purchase.

 

If this went on to court PC World would have a valid defence as the legislation you are attempting to use doesn't provide any protection when purchases are made for business use.

[Advoc8]

Also 10Gb is a bit much don't you think ?

 

Could be a restore partition (though still quite large)?

[dsz]

true - and indeed it is, althouh this partition was not accessible or visible until partionmagic8 was installed. I recovered from the nightmare recovery disk...

[dsz]

Fine and thanks Advoc8, so that means that every person that buys a computer component on expenses, etc. are subject to a differennt set of rules. What are they ? Can you help please ?

[blacksheep1979]

surely if you bought it on company expenses then they actually paid for it? And if thats the case its now not owned by you and you have even less claim.

[dsz]

OK - but are you stating that the company has no right to a case ? I am claiming on behalf of the company...the company is small and this causes a blur...

[Advoc8]

Fine and thanks Advoc8, so that means that every person that buys a computer component on expenses, etc. are subject to a differennt set of rules. What are they ? Can you help please ?

 

Basically the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 covers this sort of situation (applies to consumers and businesses but consumers have the protection of the regulations you mention in your letter), this Act implies terms of fitness for purpose and quality into any contract for the purchase of goods.

 

So what you need to say is that there is an implied term of quality and fitness for purpose in your contract for purchase of the laptop, the laptop is not fit for purpose/ of suitable quality and and you'll be taking court action to claim the cost of the laptop back from PC World as they're in breach of that implied term (you can then go on to offer the negotiation point you mention later in your letter).

 

Hope that clears it up a little.

[rosiecotton]

No, you can't use the Supply of Goods and Services Act as this legislation covers services and goods supplied as part of a service. Here it is simply goods that you have bought. You'd be looking at the Sale of Goods Act 1979, but without the amendments brought in by the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations.

 

This means that the additional remedies under the Regs of repair/replacement or rescission are not open to you.

 

Your remedies under the Sale of Goods Act are:

 

Rejection, within a reasonable time (usually only a few weeks)

 

or

 

Damages (usually to cover the cost of repair or replacement, whichever would be cheaper)

 

 

If PC World were aware that this was a business sale they could incorporate exclusion clauses into their contract with you, please do check the terms and conditions in full to be sure that they have not excluded liability for quality under the Sale of Goods Act as they may be able to do so in a business-to-business contract.

[Advoc8]

Oops, well it was late!

[Alfie1981]

Hi

 

I accidently wiped my Laptop's memory and require the recovery disc, does anyone have this disc in order to re-install Windows XP Media Centre onto my Laptop.

 

Cheers

[ForestChav]

Your HDD is 80 GB, just Windows is reporting in GiB.

 

Your capacity is correct and if you go to court with that you'll get laughed off the stand.

 

As for your other issues...

[ForestChav]

Also 10Gb is a bit much don't you think ?

No.

 

Manufacturers report the space in GB where 1 GB is 1000 MB, as per the SI definition.

 

Operating Systems like Windows use the binary definitions, where 2^10 is 1024, so here 1 GiB = 1024 MiB (and don't ask if that is 1000.1024 or 1024.1024 B!).

 

Essentially your maths then allows a 24 MiB/GB discrepancy ie for every GB you have in your HD you have 24 "MB" (as reported by the OS) less.

 

Accounting for this (and the recovery partition) your HD is the right size.

[BigToe7000]

Yes, my "80GB" hard drive in my other computer shows up as 74.4gb. With a 5gb or so recovery partition 69.9gb seems about right...

[Hammy1962]

Forgive me, but as this post is already going slightly pear shaped, the Mod Gods might allow me to make an observation

 

What on earth is a Chief Executive Officer of a computer-driven XXX company doing buying a retail Laptop for business use from PC World?

 

Your not an MP are you?

 

Hammy

[Quady]

I can replace the screen for £235 + shipping

[elizabinti]

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 refers to all types of contracts, consumer or otherwise. I think what you're talking about is s14(2) and implied terms, which are in force. The main one you're looking at is the implied term as to the condition of the goods - aka, in a satisfactory condition and fit for purpose. If the contract (sales contract, that is) excludes these implied terms, you may have a problem there.

 

I'm afraid that if you bought the laptop for your business, you are excluded from the consumer legislation (UCTA, Consumer Contracts Regulations 1997 or 1999 i forget which etc)

 

Look at any contracts or standard form contracts you might have. Make a timetable of what happened in what order. If they have breached any terms, try and establish how serious the term of the contract is - if it's a 'condition' term, then you can hold PC World in repudiatory breach and demand all monies you paid back.

 

I replied because I'm having the same problem with the same make of laptop. It's about as useful as any expensive doorstop can be, and it's a damn shame that's not what I was trying to buy eight months ago.

 

If you are attempting to small claims it, here's a little help:

- Go along to your local County Court. Fill out a 'Claim Form' and pay the fee. They'll stamp it for you. If you want to prepare your 'Particulars of Claim' beforehand, take it with you. Get a solicitor or someone who knows what they're talking about to draft you one. If you want a little time to do this, make sure you mark the 'to follow' part of the Claim Form. Do not use emotive language in any court documents.

- You then 'serve' the Claim Form on DSG Retail (trading at all material times as 'PC World' and 'theTechguys') at their registered office address, unless they have expressly indicated otherwise (in writing). You do this by post. You must include a Response Pack when you serve the Particulars of Claim - if this is done separately to the Claim Form, this must be done within 14 days.

- Wait 14 days. If DSG Retail don't 'Acknowledge Service' by this point, you should apply for 'Judgement in Default'

- If DSG Retail reply, they'll file an Acknowledgement of Service and serve it on you. It may or may not come with a Defence or Counterclaim. If it does, you may wish to serve a Reply. If it does not, they have 14 days to do this.

 

You then continue with the proceedings. If no AS is filed, and you apply for Judgement in Default, that means you don't even have to prove your case. If you get that, or a judgement in your favour, then you can get payment out of them within 14 days.

 

I'm thinking about taking PC World to the small claims as well. They lost my laptop, so surely it should be a bit more straightforward....

[Bookworm]

First post: 3rd March 2007, 21:31