HSBC

[craigten]

Thankyou, the Draft direction Order seems to be the way to go doesn't it?

Any thoughts?

[craigten]

***BUMP***

Thankyou, the Draft direction Order seems to be the way to go doesn't it?

Any thoughts?

[Michael Browne]

What do you want me to say? If I didn't think it was a good idea, I wouldn't suggest it.

[givememymoney]

Yep I would go with the Draft Order of Direction it gives the judge and opportunity to see the facts of the case before court and of course we know that the banks won't produce the evidence so will settle before the deadline that the judge imposes should they wish to follow the draft order.

[craigten]

TOP CLASS advise from both of you, Thankyou a thousand times!!!!

[craigten]

Hi again, i notice that on the help page to fill out the MCOL page there is a bit that says "Once you have submitted your claim by MCOL you need to send your schedule of charges to the court to be served with your claim. " ......so i have to send a copy of my schedule of charges to the MCOL court? The reason i ask is because iv already started a claim against Hcbs for my brother that their solicitors have defended and i didn't send a schedule to the court!! Also, i have last week started a claim on MCOL against Barclaycard and i haven't sent a schedule to MCOL for that either!! :confused: What shall i do now? How important is it?

[Michael Browne]

Well, assuming you used the POC's from the template library:

3. Defendant is aware of all details as a list of charges has already been supplied. Another copy will be sent.

That's twice you've used something without bothering to read it.

[craigten]

Hi, i now have the AQ in front of me, also, DG have sent a letter asking for a list of all charges and interest, now, i have a list of every charge and the date (i used Martin Lewis's calculator) but they have no description next to the charges, will it be ok to send them this as i dont have the statements to hand, they are at my brother's house a long way away!! Please help if you can-Craig

[givememymoney]

Craig the approach that Martin Lewis uses is not the same as on this forum and whilst I like Martin Lewis I think that his process is too simplistic and not rigorus enough. If I can I would suggest that if you want to use this forum and get the best out of it then you should read all the FAQ's from the beginning and use the templates and spreadsheets on here. You will need to have a description against each of the charges that you send to the court and DG. Cheers

 

Guide to claiming back your bank charges

[Michael Browne]

The claimant is put to strict proof of each and every charge and in relation to each charge to identify (a) the date when the charges was charged; (b) the amount of the same; and © the reason(s) given for the charging of the same.

This is a clause from a typical bank defence, so you will be required to give that information. You'll need to get it from your brother.

[craigten]

Brilliant,thankyou!! Just one final question- Do i have to write out the directions in G section of the N49 or can i print them off and attach it to it? Thankyou-Craig

[Michael Browne]

If you mean the Draft Directions Order, then just fill in your own details and print out on a separate sheet and attch it to the AQ. You'll notice (assuming you've read it) that the draft order, if granted, requires the smae information, so you need to get this from your brother.

[craigten]

Thankyou, i actually meant this bit:

Section G/H - other information

 

The Claimant respectfully suggests that special directions may be made as per the attached draft order.

 

If ordered, the Claimant believes the proposed directions will further the Overriding Objectives in that they identify the most fundamental issues in dispute (as detailed below), and allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously.

 

- The crux upon which this claim rests is the actual loss suffered by the Defendant as a result of the contractual breach from which its charges arise. If the Defendant cannot substantiate the cost of each charge as proportionate to its loss incurred, it has charged contractual penalties contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and common law principles established since the early 1900's.

 

- In the event that the Defendant's charges were accepted as being a fee for a contractual service (which is refuted), examination of its true costs is required to determine whether the price is reasonable as required by the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

 

The Claimant believes that if the Defendant has the serious intention of defending this claim at trial as is indicated by its defence, that it is imcumbent on it to disclose such information. Further, the proposed directions are already routinely ordered in claims of this nature in the Mercantile Court in London, as well as in small claims track cases in Leicester, Derby, Chesterfield, Northampton and Mansfield County Courts.

 

As the law relating to contractual penalties is long established, the Claimant believes the outstanding issues to be of fact. Accordingly, the Claimant respectfully requests that this claim be allocated to the small claims track, and estimates that the hearing of the claim should last no longer than one hour.

Do i have to write that out in section G or can i simply print it and attach it?

 

 

[Michael Browne]

In section G; Please see information on attached sheet.

 

Head the sheet with:

Claim No. XXX Craigten v HSBC.

Section G: Other Information:

[craigten]

BRILLIANT!!! Thankyou mate!!

[craigten]

Ok people,

Now im a little bit rusty on how to fill out the AQ but this is what iv done:

In Section G of N149 iv wrote:

Please find the following attached to this allocation questionnaire;

 

1) Section G - other information

2) Draft order for directions

 

This allocation questionnaire and its attachments were sent to the defendant on **/**/**.

Then iv printed out 2 sheets and attached it to the AQ, the first sheet is:

 

RICHARD **** v. HSBC

Claim No: 7QZ1****

 

N149 Allocation Questionnaire

 

Section G- other information

The Claimant respectfully suggests that special directions may be made as per the attached draft order.

 

If ordered, the Claimant believes the proposed directions will further the Overriding Objectives in that they identify the most fundamental issues in dispute (as detailed below), and allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously.

 

- The crux upon which this claim rests is the actual loss suffered by the Defendant as a result of the contractual breach from which its charges arise. If the Defendant cannot substantiate the cost of each charge as proportionate to its loss incurred, it has charged contractual penalties contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and common law principles established since the early 1900's.

 

- In the event that the Defendant's charges were accepted as being a fee for a contractual service (which is refuted), examination of its true costs is required to determine whether the price is reasonable as required by the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

 

The Claimant believes that if the Defendant has the serious intention of defending this claim at trial as is indicated by its defence, that it is imcumbent on it to disclose such information. Further, the proposed directions are already routinely ordered in claims of this nature in the Mercantile Court in London, as well as in small claims track cases in Leicester, Derby, Chesterfield, Northampton and Mansfield County Courts.

 

As the law relating to contractual penalties is long established, the Claimant believes the outstanding issues to be of fact. Accordingly, the Claimant respectfully requests that this claim be allocated to the small claims track, and estimates that the hearing of the claim should last no longer than one hour.

Then the second sheet is as follows:

 

Claim number 7QZ1****

Between

RICHARD ***** - Claimant

and

HSBC- Defendant

 

Draft Order for Directions

The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and to the Court:

• a) A schedule setting out each charge repayment of which is sought, showing the date, amount, and reason given (if any) for that charge being made;

• b) Copies of any statement or other document relied upon as showing that each and every charge has been made;

• c) A statement of evidence of all matters relied upon as tending to show that the charges are irrecoverable as penalties or otherwise;

• d) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order.

 

 

 

2. The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file and serve a response to the Claimant's schedule, stating in respect of each item claimed;

• a) Pursuant to what contractual provision such charge was made, producing a copy of the contractual document relied upon;

• b) Whether such charge is accepted to be a penalty, and if not why not;

• c) If such charge is alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions (whether or not such action is treated as a breach of contract between the parties), all facts and matters intended to be relied upon as showing that such was a proper estimate of such loss, and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to what the true cost of dealing with the matter was;

• d) If such charge is not alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions then facts and matters intended to be relied upon showing the basis upon which the charge was calculated and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to show that the charge was fair and reasonable.

• e) Any witness statements.

• f) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

If the Defendant fails to comply with this order, the Defence will be struck out without further order.

How does this look?

Am i right in thinking that i now have to send a photocopy of the AQ and a photocopy of the 2 sheets and a photocopy of my schedule to not only the court but also to Hsbc(or should i say DG solicitors!)?

(oh and the schedule is, unfortunately, a print off of the calculations using the calculator on Martin Lewis's website that i originally used and now i have written in the reasons for each and every charge!!)

Please help me if you can to verify that iv done/doing this correctly, im not the brightest spark in the world, hence this long-drawn-out question, many thanks in advance- Craig:confused:

[lateralus]

aq looks spot on to me - just make sure your name and claim no. are on all sheets attached to the aq - up at the top in the corner.

and yes, a full set to dg - this is a courtesy - nothing more.

i think you have a grasp of it all -

 

take a look at my after you've filed your aq thread for what's next, ideas and support.

[craigten]

Thanks Latty, always appreciate your help, im just bumping this once more to see if anyone finds anything wrong with what iv done so far with the AQ: (Im just making SO sure that it's right because i dont want to mess this up for my brother!!!)

So is this right:

Now im a little bit rusty on how to fill out the AQ but this is what iv done:

In Section G of N149 iv wrote:

Please find the following attached to this allocation questionnaire;

 

1) Section G - other information

2) Draft order for directions

 

This allocation questionnaire and its attachments were sent to the defendant on **/**/**.

 

 

Then iv printed out 2 sheets and attached it to the AQ, the first sheet is:

 

RICHARD **** v. HSBC

Claim No: 7QZ1****

 

 

N149 Allocation Questionnaire

 

Section G- other information

The Claimant respectfully suggests that special directions may be made as per the attached draft order.

 

If ordered, the Claimant believes the proposed directions will further the Overriding Objectives in that they identify the most fundamental issues in dispute (as detailed below), and allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously.

 

- The crux upon which this claim rests is the actual loss suffered by the Defendant as a result of the contractual breach from which its charges arise. If the Defendant cannot substantiate the cost of each charge as proportionate to its loss incurred, it has charged contractual penalties contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and common law principles established since the early 1900's.

 

- In the event that the Defendant's charges were accepted as being a fee for a contractual service (which is refuted), examination of its true costs is required to determine whether the price is reasonable as required by the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

 

The Claimant believes that if the Defendant has the serious intention of defending this claim at trial as is indicated by its defence, that it is imcumbent on it to disclose such information. Further, the proposed directions are already routinely ordered in claims of this nature in the Mercantile Court in London, as well as in small claims track cases in Leicester, Derby, Chesterfield, Northampton and Mansfield County Courts.

 

As the law relating to contractual penalties is long established, the Claimant believes the outstanding issues to be of fact. Accordingly, the Claimant respectfully requests that this claim be allocated to the small claims track, and estimates that the hearing of the claim should last no longer than one hour.

 

Then the second sheet is as follows:

 

 

Claim number 7QZ1****

Between

 

 

RICHARD ***** - Claimant

 

 

 

and

 

 

 

HSBC- Defendant

 

Draft Order for Directions

 

The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and to the Court:

• a) A schedule setting out each charge repayment of which is sought, showing the date, amount, and reason given (if any) for that charge being made;

• b) Copies of any statement or other document relied upon as showing that each and every charge has been made;

• c) A statement of evidence of all matters relied upon as tending to show that the charges are irrecoverable as penalties or otherwise;

• d) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order.

 

 

 

2. The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file and serve a response to the Claimant's schedule, stating in respect of each item claimed;

• a) Pursuant to what contractual provision such charge was made, producing a copy of the contractual document relied upon;

• b) Whether such charge is accepted to be a penalty, and if not why not;

• c) If such charge is alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions (whether or not such action is treated as a breach of contract between the parties), all facts and matters intended to be relied upon as showing that such was a proper estimate of such loss, and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to what the true cost of dealing with the matter was;

• d) If such charge is not alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions then facts and matters intended to be relied upon showing the basis upon which the charge was calculated and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to show that the charge was fair and reasonable.

• e) Any witness statements.

• f) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

If the Defendant fails to comply with this order, the Defence will be struck out without further order.

 

 

How does this look?

Am i right in thinking that i now have to send a photocopy of the AQ and a photocopy of the 2 sheets and a photocopy of my schedule to not only the court but also to Hsbc(or should i say DG solicitors!)?

(oh and the schedule is, unfortunately, a print off of the calculations using the calculator on Martin Lewis's website that i originally used and now i have written in the reasons for each and every charge!!)

 

Please help me if you can to verify that iv done/doing this correctly, im not the brightest spark in the world, hence this long-drawn-out question, many thanks in advance- Craig

[nettyg]

craig - that's fine

original to the courts

copy to dg solicitors

keep one copy for yourself

[craigten]

OH DEAR, OH DEAR, OH DEAR!!!!

Im not happy!:-| :-|

This is my problem: When i originally sent the first letter and the LBA to HSBC i had mistakenly asked for the 8% interest aswell, id sent them the printout of my brother's charges using the online calculator on Martin Lewis's website!!

Now, iv just used the original printout of said charges and tried to correspond them with his 6 years of statements so i could write on the sheet the description of each of the charges BUT they dont all correspond!!! i have managed to put a description to 18 of the 25 charges but i have found that there were some charges that he'd not added on and 7 that i just cant find on his statements!! Please can anyone tell me what to do now??? Iv filled out my AQ and am ready to send but iv already put in on the MCOL exactly how much im claiming for!! Do you see waht i mean?

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!!

[nettyg]

you said in your earlier post that you'd put a description on your mse spreadsheet of each and every charge.??

[craigten]

You mean this?-

"Hi, i now have the AQ in front of me, also, DG have sent a letter asking for a list of all charges and interest, now, i have a list of every charge and the date (i used Martin Lewis's calculator) but they have no description next to the charges, will it be ok to send them this as i dont have the statements to hand, they are at my brother's house a long way away!! Please help if you can-Craig"

 

Any ideas what i should now do? Im so sorry for getting all muddled up, please forgive my dullness!!

[lateralus]

so at no point did you put "recall s/o, d/d" and "total charges" on the s/s - you must have - it didn't just put charges on each one did you - oh, are you saying the s/s from m.l. didn't call for description of charges?

 

you should be able to type it up with the charges named against them - my entire claim was just those two items above - older ones were all total charges, newer ones all the other - plus o/d interest - but they are small and odd numbers so easily picked out. yes, i think you should have a description next to each one - so bring up your schedule and tweak it so each one has a name next to it.

the breakdowns don't come up well - but i'll put mine here - it may help.

 

 

In Respect of:

 

Amount

 

Date Incurred

 

Days since offence

Interest 8% APR

 

 

 

 

 

Total Charges

 

£27.50

 

05/12/2000

 

 

 

 

 

2078

 

 

£12.57

 

Interest

 

£0.12

 

04/01/2001

 

 

 

 

 

2048

17/05/2006

 

 

 

 

 

89

 

 

£0.59

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

£1,724.82

 

 

 

 

£423.97

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

£2,148.79

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

just thought the numbers might help you decide what his are called. get back with specifics and someone will know - or you'll have to get hold of the statements again.

 

 

shoot! this looked perfect before i pressed submit. see if you can read it.

 

it's coming out:

name of charge on left amount of chrg on right and 1 line down

date of chrg in middle 1 line down

no of days since chg on right 1 line down

int.@8% on right - 1 line down

 

gawd it's like the enigma code! i doubt if this helps you at all!

[craigten]

Thanks for your post-

First of all, i mistakenly used Marin Lewis's calculator to get the total of all the charges but i have written in exactly what charges they were ('Total charges', 'Overlimit charges' etc etc) on all but 6 of the charges(there were 25 in total) but i cant seem to find on his statements some of the charges that he originally put on the calculator!!) I just need to know what to do about the remaining 6 charges? ie-Will me not filling in what charges they were or me guessing, actually harm my claim??

[lateralus]

ok, so can we tell by the amount and you can type them in and reprint it - how much are the 6 charges for?