Notice of endorsement of driving record

[Akania1970]

Nothing I forgot to send that one back

they have already put the points on

 

Also as it says I have a criminal offence does that mean I have a criminal record?

[Man in the middle]

Yes, it does mean you have a criminal record.

 

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but you don't seem to have much in the way of options here. What has happened roughly aligns with my thoughts in post #8, except that you did not respond to the SJPN. You knew of the proceedings against you but did not respond. The court was entitled to proceed without your response and they have. In the absence of any input from you it was certain that a guilty verdict would result.

 

The only option you have is to ask the court to reopen your case (under Section 142 of the Magistrates’ Court Act) though quite what reason you would give for making that request would be difficult to understand (certainly for the court, who would have to agree to your request).

 

Had you responded to the SJPN, you may have been able to successfully defend the charge (since you say you did respond to the request for driver's details). It would have been tough. Slightly easier would have been to have persuaded the prosecutor to raise a speeding charge against you instead (again, a tough task but not impossible as it was still within the six month time limit). But now you have been convicted those ships have sailed and I cannot see the court agreeing to reopen your case for either of those reasons.

 

You could ask them to reopen your case to reconsider your sentence. The fine was based on a default weekly income of £440pw and if your income is significantly less than that the request would be worthwhile. But once again, I can see the court turning down your request.

 

If all this fails you could appeal to the Crown Court against either your conviction or sentence (or both). You do not need permission to do this but must do so within 21 days of conviction, so you only have until next Friday to lodge your appeal. In my view you have close to zero chance of success and the Crown Court costs in the event of a failed appeal are more than £1,000 

 

In short, the court has acted properly and had no real choice but to proceed when you did not respond to the SJPN. In these circumstances it is hard to gain a second chance.

 

Others may have some realistic suggestions but I haven't, I'm afraid.

[Akania1970]

Ok. What a nightmare . I will have to appeal the decision or at least try I guess I have nothing to lose now. Can’t believe k have a criminal record . Is that forever now ? 

[Man in the middle]

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I will have to appeal the decision or at least try I guess I have nothing to lose now.

But, as I've explained, you don't have a route of appeal that has a realistic chance of success. I cannot see the Magistrates' Court agreeing to reopen your case - there's no justification for them to do so. The only other option is an appeal to the Crown Court, but what would be the basis of your appeal? You have been properly convicted and sentenced in accordance with the sentencing guidelines, based on the information the court had when your case was heard.

 

It is not the court's fault that you did not respond to the SJPN. On your own admission, you simply forgot and I cannot see them agreeing to visit your case again. Even if they did, what evidence, other than your own testimony,  do you have that you responded to the request for driver's details?

 

Failure in the Crown Court (almost a certainty for the same reasons) will cost you in excess of £1,000 and the original sentence including the fine and costs will remain to be paid. 

 

 

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Can’t believe k have a criminal record . Is that forever now ? 

 

The conviction means the points will remain on your driving record for three years. This is important because if you receive six more in that time you will face a mandatory six month disqualification. The endorsement remains visible on your driving record for four years and the conviction becomes "spent" (meaning you do not have to declare it except if applying for certain positions) after five years. That said, it is not a conviction which should cause too many problems for most people. What you should be prepared for is a considerable increase in your insurance premiums. The endorsement code (MS90) is one which insurers really dislike and do not be surprised if your premiums double for a year or two.

 

You can try an application to the Magistrates' Court to reopen your case, but in the very unlikely event that they agree, I don't really see the point. They are unlikely to set aside the conviction. As above, an appeal to the Crown Court must be lodged by next Friday and you will find yourself in exactly the same situation. Basically, you have no grounds for appeal that I can see.

 

Wait to see if anybody else on here comes in with any suggestions.

[Manxman in exile]

4 hours ago, Akania1970 said:

Nothing I forgot to send that one back

they have already put the points on

 

Also as it says I have a criminal offence does that mean I have a criminal record?

 

Hi @Akania1970  -  sorry to ask yet again, but it might be important to get this absolutely clear.  I know you've been very muddled and upset over all this but I just want to be sure.  I'm not criticising you or trying to catch you out or anything.

 

You say in the post I quote above that you never responded to the SJPN dated dated 08 December 2022 which was asking you to plead either guilty or not guilty to the offence of failing to identify the driver.  That is the one that you had to reply to by 29 December.

 

Yet in at least two separate previous posts (#1 and #5 ) you appear to be saying that you did submit a plea in response to that SJPN:

 

On 12/01/2023 at 13:01, akania said:

... I have now received a single justice procedure saying I must plead guilty or not guilty and I must respond by 29/12/2022 which I did do I responded straight away... 

 

On 12/01/2023 at 14:01, akania said:

... I then received a SJP posted on the 8/12/2022 saying that I have now been charged with the following criminal offence and the date of the charge was 29/11/22 prosecutor City of London Police .

 

It stated that my plea must be made by the 29/12/22. I filled out the paperwork and sent my plea again the next day...

 

As I say I'm not getting at you or trying to catch you out, I'm just exploring what has happened.

 

Is it possible that you did make a plea but you've forgotten in all the confusion and panic?

[Manxman in exile]

@Man in the middle -  you know far more than I do about the processes involved in motoring prosecutions.

 

In this sort of situation where the police believe a driver has failed to respond to a s172 request, isn't the standard procedure to dual charge the driver with both speeding and failure to identify, thus giving the person charged an opportunity (if they were the speeding driver) to plea bargain their way out of the failure to identify charge?  

 

That doesn't seem to have happened here.  Is that unusual?

 

I appreciate that if the speeding has already timed out then there will only be a s172 charge, but has this speeding timed out?  The OP appears to think the offence was as recent as august 2022.  See #5

 

On 12/01/2023 at 14:01, akania said:

I’m sorry I’m in panic mode . 
 

my partner received the original fine in September 2022 for a speeding offence on the 29/8/2022......

 

[Edit:  Ah.  On re-reading the thread I think the OP has got the date of the failure to identify offence confused with the date of the speeding offence.  I think the date of the failure to identify offence was 29 August 2022.  We don't know the date of the speeding offence]

Edited January 19, 2023 by Manxman in exile

[Akania1970]

Looking back the speeding offence was July .

 

I received paperwork and sent it back in august.

 

Then nothing until over Xmas I received the SJP and the notice of endorsement towards the end of Xmas giving me approx a week to get in my replies together with a postal strike on the go . And before I know it I have a huge fine and 6 points and a criminal record .

 

As far as I was aware they had received my admittance of driving the vehicle as I didn’t hear anything up until near the end of December 22. 
 

I understand this is my fault because I did not send back the SJP.

I thought I’d had until I found it frantically searching for all the paperwork .

 

No I have no defence apart from a weak one which is my menopause which I know is laughable for some but what it has done to me mentally , brain fog and total lack of memory is the only reason I can find for the mess I am now in .

 

Just ranting for rantings sake ,

why don’t they send these extremely important letters recorded delivery ?

 

They have absolutely no proof when or if I received this mail and placing your faith in Royal Mail is laughable especially over Xmas coupled with a postal strike .

 

I have never EVER been in trouble with the police .

I have been a good girl all these years now I’m a grandmother with criminal record . Nice .

 

My partner is a motor trader I sometimes help him pick his cars up. I won’t be able to do that now if my premiums go through the roof and he will lose his business .

 

All this over a bloody sp30 and a £100 fine .

 

all this makes no difference I guess .

I will contact the court in the morning and see what they say about the postal strike , my memory issues etc and bed then to reconsider

 

but based on what I have read I might as well save the sit of the phone call.

 

Obviously not going to go to crown court I only receive £621 pcm in pip (disability) payments so that would be stupid even though I would like an opportunity to plead my case .

 

I never received  any court paperwork unless the SPJ is such .

So I’ll pay the fine hopefully I can do it In two payments and jog on with my criminal record and points . 
 

id like to say

 

Thankyou to everyone that’s taken the time to help and advise me.

I know I’ve been hard work . And DX for sorting out my PDF’s.

 

Expensive lesson learnt .

 

Oh by the way it’s my birthday Sunday and I’m being taken to Athens for the weekend .

Will I have any issues as I’m now a granny with a criminal record ?

[Man in the middle]

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…isn't the standard procedure to dual charge the driver with both speeding and failure to identify, thus giving the person charged an opportunity (if they were the speeding driver) to plea bargain their way out of the failure to identify charge?  

 That doesn't seem to have happened here.  Is that unusual?

 

 

It’s not usual but not uncommon. With the dates being a bit “cloudy” it may well be that the speeding offence had already timed out, though probably not. However, Akania had the opportunity to go down that road (if the speeding had timed out, it is not unheard of for prosecutors to raise an “out of time” speeding charge) but the time to do so was at the SJ stage.

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why don’t they send these extremely important letters recorded delivery ?

 

I know you are only ranting, but it would not have made any difference would it? You received the SJPN on 15th December and you had two weeks to respond; it’s just that you didn’t act on it. 

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They have absolutely no proof when or if I received this mail and placing your faith in Royal Mail is laughable especially over Xmas coupled with a postal strike .

 

They don’t need proof that you received it, only that they posted it. The law (Interpretation Act 1978, Section 7) says that a notice sent in the post is deemed “served” two working days after posting. If the recipient wants to argue that it was not received, it is up to him to prove it.

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I will contact the court in the morning and see what they say about the postal strike ,…

 

But the strike isn’t an issue, is it? Although it took seven days to reach you, you received the SJPN in plenty of time to respond to it. I’m not criticising you here; what’s done is done and I’m not in the criticism business. I’m just trying to explain how a court will view this. I’ve been wracking my brains to identify a way out of this and regrettably  I can’t.

 

I really do not recommend the Crown Court route. You don’t have much of a case and the cost of failure is high. I can only suggest you approach the Magistrates’ Court with a request to reopen your case on the basis that you were not mentally in the right place to deal with the SJPN in time. This will cost you nothing. I can tell you that you will have a struggle with this, not because of the merits of your case but because the administrative staff who you contact usually don’t know the correct procedure.

 

Your request can only be dealt with by being put before Magistrates. It is a judicial decision, not an administrative one that can be made by court staff. You will have to insist it is put before the court and you should be prepared to contact the Clerk to the Justices if necessary. As I said, I still don’t think you have the makings of a defence to the charge. But you may persuade the court to allow you to enter a guilty plea and be fined according to your means. This will considerably reduce the damage, but the conviction and six points will remain. 

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Will I have any issues as I’m now a granny with a criminal record ?

No. Although the offence results in a criminal conviction, it is not a “recordable offence” and you should encounter no difficulties.
 

[Akania1970]

Thankyou man in the middle for taking the time to respond and i don’t take it as criticism at all, I like straight talking at least then I know where I stand . 

I have been in touch with the court .

They have asked me to email them my situation, what happened in order to hopefully re open the case. The backlog is 6 weeks currently so may take some time to look into .

 

In the meantime I need to contact the fines team they said to put the fine on hold . a glimmer of hope but I am being realistic and prepared for the worse case scenario . 

[Man in the middle]

Make sure you get any agreement to put the fines etc. on hold in writing (or e-mail). You don't want bailiffs knocking at your door.

 

When you make your request to reopen you need to provide a reason and, as earlier, I recommend you major on the "not in a fit state to respond" angle. If you say you simply forgot, it will not fly. But your request (however it is put) should not be rejected by administrators; it should be put to the court. So be prepared for a struggle to get that done.

[Akania1970]

Ok the email has gone ,

I cited state of mind how sorry I was

how the points would render me unemployed as I wouldn’t be able to afford insurance as a sole trader motor trader with my partner .

 

I also said I full accept the 3 points and £100 .

 

They agreed to accept to reopen the case based on the postal strike

so that’s my only glimmer of hope at the min

[Manxman in exile]

Sorry @Akania1970  -  but what does "They agreed to accept to reopen the case based on the postal strike... " mean?

[Man in the middle]

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They agreed to accept to reopen the case based on the postal strike so that’s my only glimmer of hope at the min 

 

Alania, you really must get a grip of this. From your description, the postal strike had no bearing on this at all. All you can say is that the SJPN took a week to reach you when it should have taken perhaps a couple of days. It meant you had a little less time to respond, but it doesn't explain why you didn't respond at all. That's why I said you should emphasise your poor state of mind at that time.

 

But more than that, it is most unlikely that the court has already agreed to your request. As I said, it cannot be agreed by administrative staff; it must go before Magistrates. You only sent your e-mail late this afternoon and whilst I'm not saying it's impossible to have gone before a court so soon, it's most unlikely. You need to check what stage it's at. Just for your information, the law under which you are making this request says this:

 

"A magistrates’ court may vary or rescind a sentence or other order imposed or made by it when dealing with an offender if it appears to the court to be in the interests of justice to do so; and it is hereby declared that this power extends to replacing a sentence or order which for any reason appears to be invalid by another which the court has power to impose or make."

 

You can see it is a court that has this power. It does not extend to court staff, however senior. I would imagine that at this stage, at best, somebody has agreed to put your request before a court (which, in itself, is a good result if it is true). I don't want you to get your hopes up prematurely.

[Man in the middle]

One other thing that I should have mentioned last night is that when your request to reopen is listed to be heard you will be asked to attend. The Magistrates will almost certainly want to question you regarding your request. If they agree to reopen and they set aside either your conviction the prosecution will be asked how they wish to proceed. That is why I'm quite certain your request to reopen has not yet been put before the court.

[Akania1970]

You are correct .

The court staff I spoke to asked me to email a detailed account of what had happened , time dates etc and said because of the postal strike they would apply to the magistrate once they had received my written statement of events to have the case reopened because of the postal strikes.

 

I am just re iterating what they are saying .

hey said that it would take up to 6 weeks for a response as to whether it will be re opened or not and in the meantime I need to speak to the fines team and tell them what is happening and hopefully they will agree to put the fine on hold until we know whether the judge will re open the case . 

[Man in the middle]

Yes that's more like it.

 

You will almost certainly be asked to attend court when they look at your request and it's important you attend (otherwise your request is unlikely to be considered). Let us know if you do.

[Manxman in exile]

Have you already emailed them?

 

It wasn't clear if you had or not...

[Akania1970]

Yea I have