Notice of endorsement of driving record

[akania]

Hi all

 

I received a speeding fine in august

sent the paperwork back identifying myself as the driver at that time as the car is registered to my partner .

 

I then received a letter from the police asking me if I was the driver .

I sent this back and have been awaiting my fine points etc .

 

I have now received a single justice procedure saying I must plead guilty or not guilty and I must respond by 29/12/2022 which I did do I responded straight away.

 

It also states that I  have now been charged with criminal offences for failing to give information relating to the identification of driver .

 

I have now received notice of endorsement of driving record .

Fined £660 surcharge victim charge of £264 costs of £90 6 points and a collection order made .

 

This was all going on over Xmas and to top it all off there was a postal strike .

I don’t know what’s going on I’ve done what they have asked and they’ve slung the book at me .

 

Have I now got a criminal record as well ?

I am on long term disability and only received £600 per month from pip .

 

Please can anyone advise what I can do ? 

[dx100uk]

so you did return the s172 notice in time?

 

dx

 

[akania]

Yes I’ve sent everything on time .

The only thing I can think of is the postal strike , Xmas etc .

 

The last thing I did was sent the form identifying myself as the driver and pleading guilty then nothing until the SJP which had to be responded to by the 29/12/2022 and then this notice of endorsement sent on the 5/1/2023

[Man in the middle]

Can you give us a timeline of these events because much of what you say is confusing. For example:

 

Quote

I received a speeding fine in august...

 

Nobody "receives a speeding fine". The first approach from the police is normally to the Registered Keeper asking them to provide the driver's details at the time of the alleged offence.

 

Quote

sent the paperwork back identifying myself as the driver at that time as the car is registered to my partner .

 

If your partner is the Registered Keeper, he or she would have received the request for driver’s details, not you.

 

Quote

I have now received a single justice procedure saying I must plead guilty or not guilty and I must respond by 29/12/2022 which I did do I responded straight away.

 

When did you receive this? How and when did you respond?

 

There are possibly ways to have this situation reverted to the original speeding offence, but without knowing who received what and when, and how it was responded to and when, it is impossible to give proper advice.

[akania]

I’m sorry I’m in panic mode . 
 

my partner received the original fine in September 2022 for a speeding offence on the 29/8/2022.

 

He responded to them my details . T

 

hey then wrote to me and asked me to identify myself as the driver which I did and pleaded guilty to the offence .

 

then received a SJP posted on the 8/12/2022 saying that I have now been charged with the following criminal offence and the date of the charge was 29/11/22 prosecutor City of London Police .

 

It stated that my plea must be made by the 29/12/22. I filled out the paperwork and sent my plea again the next day.

 

Then I received the notice of endorsement of driving record , £660 fine £264 victim surcharge £90 costs , 6 driving points and a collection order made . 
 

I hop that’s a bit clearer . Sorry for rambling earlier 

[Man in the middle]

Yes that's better. Two last questions:

 

When did you receive the SJP Noticed which you say was dated 8/12/22?

 

And did it mention just the one charge or was speeding included as well? It's important to know this before advising you how to proceed.

[akania]

I received the SJP on the 15/12/2022 and there is just the one offence it says Fail to give information relating to the identification of the driver /rider of a vehicle when required . The cost by the city of London police is £90.00.

 

Surely they had my details in order to write to me ? It says the victim surcharge would typically be 40% of the fine amount , they charged me £264 for that 

 

So I guess they are doing me for failure to identify myself and speeding

[Man in the middle]

Quote

So I guess they are doing me for failure to identify myself and speeding

 

Not speeding. They have no evidence that you were driving.

 

I think it’s clear now. Tell me If any of this is wrong:

• The vehicle was detected speeding on 29/8/22.
• Your partner (the Registered Keeper) received a “Request for Driver’s Details” in September.
• He responded to that request, naming you as the driver.
• You received a similar request.
• You responded confirming you were the driver.
• On 15/12/22 you received a “Single Justice Procedure Notice”, dated 8/12/22.
• The notice mentioned one charge only – “Failing to Provide Driver’s Details.”
• You responded to this and have now received notice of the sentence (Fine/costs/points).

 

Did you respond to that SJPN of 8/12/22 by pleading guilty to the one and only charge that it mentioned (i.e. “Failing to Provide Driver’s Details”)?

 

If the answer to that question is "Yes", you have a serious problem from which it may not be possible to recover (though there is a slim hope which I'll explain when you confirm the answer).

[Manxman in exile]

1.  When did you receive your own "Request for Driver's details"?  Can you remember?

 

2.  What date did you return it?

 

3.  Had you signed it?

 

4.  Did you keep a copy of what you sent?  (eg a photo on a phone)

 

5.  Did you post it 1st class from a post office and get a certificate of posting?

 

6.  If not, have you any other evidence that you sent it back?

 

And as @Man in the middle asks, did you plead Guilty or Not Guilty in response to the SJP?

[dx100uk]

@Manxman in exile the op has stated 3 times they pleaded guilty to the charge  on the SJP of failing to id the driver.

 

 

 

[Manxman in exile]

Sorry dx, you're right!   

 

It's a pity they didn't seek advice when they got the SJPN as I'm wondering if they could still have tried to get away with a plea bargain then even tho' they hadn't been charged with speeding.  The speeding hasn't timed out yet.

 

Probably a bit late if they simply pleaded guilty to the failure to identify without being aware of the consequences.  Specially if they've got any evidence they did actually return the form...

Edited January 12, 2023 by Manxman in exile

[Man in the middle]

Quote

Probably a bit late if they simply pleaded guilty to the failure to identify without being aware of the consequences.

 

Indeed, Manxman. That's what I'm getting to. Perhaps akania can tell us exactly what was done in response to the SJPN and we can go from there. At this stage, provided I have grasped the facts correctly,  it's not looking good.

Edited January 12, 2023 by Man in the middle

[akania]

No sorry I have it wrong

 

I pleaded guilty on the latter from the police the SJP I have here .

 

I had hardly any time to sort the SJP before I received  the notice of endorsement.

 

Everything else you have detailed is correct .

 

I don’t have a certificate of posting cause I’m stupid .

It was Xmas I had barely three weeks between the SJP and the notice of endorsement .

 

We also had a postal strike so I don’t know if that bares any relevance .  

 

I just don’t understand why I have been fined so much and the points so high .

If I remember correctly I was only 6mph over the limit .

 

Sorry I’m not messing you about I’m just so confused as this is going back to august and then all of a sudden wham over Xmas and a day ago 

[Man in the middle]

Quote

If I remember correctly I was only 6mph over the limit .

 

You still misunderstand. From the information you have provided here, you have not been convicted of speeding, you have been convicted of "Failing to Provide Driver's Details." Whatever speed you were doing is irrelevant.

 

It is difficult to provide proper advice because I am still not 100% sure of the chain of events. Did you keep a copy of your response to the SJPN? When you sent it, did you include a statement of means (i.e. your income and outgoings)?

[akania]

I am so sorry I’m so muddled .

 

I sent the letter from the police stating I was driving and pleading guilty to the speeding offence.

The SPJN I didnt send back I still have that here . I think I’m confusing you as I said they wanted the SPJN back on the 29/12/22 and I received a notice of endorsement stating my points and fine yesterday but the date the letter was issued was the 5th of Jan 2023.

 

for clarity I have filled in the original request from the police stating I was driving and I accepted that I had broken the speed limit and then I received  this SPJN with a criminal offence stating I failed to send my details .

 

Would it be easier if I took a screen shot of the letters and attached them ? 

[Man in the middle]

Quote

 Would it be easier if I took a screen shot of the letters and attached them ?

 

Yes, definitely. 

 

If you didn't respond to the SJPN then you will have been convicted in your absence (of failing to provide driver's details). But attach the letters and I'll see what I can make of them.

[dx100uk]

read our upload guide carefully

 

scan everything up as .JPG picture files.

redact on each picture any claim/ref number/ your address or name.

 

leave all dates time £'s etc etc, just hide stuff that can ID you here.

 

put everything in one mass pdf after using the websites listed...everything in/out from day one, inc appeals etc,

[Manxman in exile]

Sounds as if you never actually pleaded Guilty or Not Guilty to anything.

 

I don't want to confuse you further, but I'll try to explain what I think has happened.

 

When you returned the Request for Driver Details that had been addressed to you, that is all you were doing.  You were just identifying a driver - ie yourself.  You were not pleading guilty to the speeding offence or anything else.  (I know that may sound hard to believe, but it's true - you were not pleading guilty to any offence, you were just identifying yourself as having been the driver of the vehicle in question at a certain location at a certain date and time). 

 

It sounds as if - for whatever reason - the police never received your response to the Request for Driver Details, so as far as they are concerned you never identified anyone.  Unfortunately, not responding to a Request for Driver Details is a more serious offence than the original speeding offence and carries 6 points and a large fine.  Also increased insurance premiums.

 

The SJPN you received would probably only have been in respect of what the police considered to have been your failure to identify yourself as the driver, and nothing to do with the original speeding charge.  Because you haven't responded to it, or submitted a plea in respect of it, you would appear to have been convicted in your absence.

 

You need to upload copies of all the paperwork you have as @Man in the middle has requested.  He might be able to come up with a plan for you to try to minimise the bad effects of this.  Follow the upload guidance referred to by @dx100uk in post #17.

 

By the way, don't feel bad about not getting a proof of posting.  If you didn't know it was good idea to do so there's no real reason why you should be expected to think of it.  (But if you ever find yourself in this situation again, keep a copy of your signed response and go to a post office counter to post it first class, and ask the counter staff for a free certificate of posting!)

 

It's no consolation but I do think the law handles this process of obtaining driver details in a very confusing and over-complicated way.  I'm sure many people end up in a similar predicament to yours...

Edited January 12, 2023 by Manxman in exile

[Man in the middle]

I think that's a fairly good stab at it, Manxman.

[akania]

Thankyou so much .

Will upload everything tomorrow hope I can do it I only have a mobile phone

 

I’m sorry I’m so muddled .

I’m just recovering from hospital acquired pneumonia which Nearly  killed me ,  and have ptsd

I’m all sorts of trouble trying to remember or cope with anything .

 

Thankyou all for everything so far .

 

I have an appointment tomorrow but as soon as I’m home I’ll figure out how to do it. .

 

By the way the bailiffs won’t turn up will they or I won’t get carted off to the cells before we sort it will I ?

[dx100uk]

bailiffs...arrested...where the hell did you get those from for a speeding ticket....

 

 

[Akania1970]

Ok it’s me again. For some reason I can’t get in using my other account . Having a nightmare . So I think I have done all of this correctly. 

I’m trying to up load pdfs and it’s saying the file is too big . Any ideas ? 

docs 1.pdf

[dx100uk]

all docs are in the op's last post 

 

please take a look and help everyone

 

dx

 

[Akania1970]

Thankyou DX

[Man in the middle]

What did you do in response to the "Single Justice Procedure Notice" (that is the letter dated 8th December))?