NORTHERN RAIL - DEBT RECOVERY

[mrk123]

Could not find a suitable section on forums to post this? Maybe move if there is a dedicated section? 

 

I was flying to Norway 3 weeks ago, and I was rushed off my feet to get to the airport on time as I was late quite simply.

 

I got to my local station, and it's a small village station, just has one of those ticket machines no staff at least not to my knowledge. 

 

I got to the station last minute as the train was pulling in so got on the train and no conductor come down the train, I get off at Manchester and there is a barricade of staff and fence, no worries, I go to pay. 

 

The guy asks why I did not pay, I told him, and he starts asking me for all my info, I tell him why I did not pay again and offer to pay but he is not listening. At this stage I am getting worried I am going to miss connecting train to the airport, but he refuses and he sees I am getting irritated and I think he plays on this. And continues to slowly get details from me and asks me to sign a piece of paper with details on, I read it through and sign it, I wish I had not, but what is a man meant to do when being bullied and under pressure from 8 staff all around me! I felt threatened and bullied, they even had their fake police around me too. 

 

Now I have got a letter (4 days ago) asking me to respond, I do not want to pay their £1000! Or even "go to prison"... What do I do here? The reason for not buying a ticket was and is justified. I offered to pay there and then as other people were around me, but they refused, they must have had a quota to meet!!! 

I will fight to the ground if I need to! 

 

Do I just reply and give them as accurate a story as possible and tell them I was bullied at the gate, and refused the ability to pay. Because surely the £1000 fine and even "prison" is reserved for the scumbags who hide in toilets and jump barriers (repeatedly) ?!

 

[honeybee13]

Hi.

 

Are you able to post up an anonymised pdf of this letter please? I'm wondering if it's Northern Rail asking for your side of the story.

 

HB

[mrk123]

 

I guess I could. 

 

The address on the letter is

 

NORTHERN TRAINS LTD

DEBT RECOVERY AND PROSECUTIONS UNIT

BRADFORD

 

With the return email being drpu@northernrailway

 

Also has another address at the bottom of letter..

 

NORTHERN TRAINS LTD

GEORGE STEPHENSON HOUSE

YORK

 

I was also going to send them a screen grab of the flight booking check in etc to prove I was under considerable pressure to make that flight.

Edited November 3, 2022 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[honeybee13]

We need to know exactly what we're dealing with because the address also says Prosecutions. A pdf would be helpful please.

 

HB

[dx100uk]

It is you job to seek out an onboard Conductor ideally 

 

Simply apologize for not doing so, I wouldn't be going down the line of criticism towards staff actions 

 

You won't get A £1000 fine nor goto prison but you should not be traveling without a valid ticket. Offer to pay for missed fare and any reasonable admin costs to get an out of court settlement 

 

Dx

[mrk123]

Here is the letter. 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by Ethel Street
Name showing

[dx100uk]

STD letter in many threads 

I've moved you to the rail forum 

 

Reply as advised.

 

Dx

[honeybee13]

You've left your name showing at the top of the letter.

 

HB

[BazzaS]

Clearly you failed the ‘attitude test’ at the barrier, and your posts here aren’t much better.

 

Move for a minute to looking at it from the TOC’s point of view.

Your responsibility was to arrive at the original station in good time to buy a ticket.

If you couldn’t buy a ticket at the station you could have sought out staff on the train.

If you couldn’t find any staff on the train you should have tried to pay for your journey BEFORE going to the gate line : any of those would have shown you were trying to pay your fare.

 

You may have been worried about missing your flight, but then you should have made different arrangements so that you weren’t facing such pressure that it may have looked like you were trying to evade your fare.

 

You MIGHT be able to defend a RRA 1889 prosecution, but if they chose to prosecute you for the Byelaw offence instead : they have a pretty much “slam-dunk” guilty on that (strict liability) offence from what you’ve stated.

 

Don’t forget to be sure to include in your reply that you were bullied, and that there were “their fake police” there, and “they were meeting their quota”, if your aim is to ensure they decide to prosecute you!

 

Alternatively: adjust your view to consider what it looked like to them, that they have no obligation to allow people to travel without paying their fare at the first opportunity, nor to allow people not to pay at first opportunity because they didn’t leave themselves enough time.

 

Then look at how you might persuade them not to prosecute and offer an administrative settlement (which they are under NO OBLIGATION to offer).

[mrk123]

Can mods please remove the letter, I am unable to. 

 

[dx100uk]

post the new

we'll swap

 

dx

 

[mrk123]

No need to post the letter again... all info i have now. 

Edited September 20, 2022 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[Ethel Street]

Letter removed

[mrk123]

Hi, not to bring a dead horse back but I have received an email from Northern Rail Debt Recovery unit. 

 

I had the chance to state my case once more and of course (no shock here) they have said it is not a valid excuse. 

 

Well I have a reason why I did not have a ticket, and have explained that I attempted to buy a ticket 2 times during the journey, once on the train and once at the gate where there is an operator and ticket machine. I would assume having both these things would warrant being able to buy a ticket. 

 

The end of this email states that if I don't want to pay the next step is magistrates court, where they will make an 'impartial decision'. 

 

What should I do here?

Will there be court costs and if so who would pay them?

 

[dx100uk]

might be a single justice procedure and if you lose yes you pay all costs, its added to your fine.and ofcourse you might also (pretty much guaranteed ) then have a criminal record.