PRA Letter of Claim - now Fast Track claimform - old barclaycard debt - now n244

[dx100uk]

you advised your brother correctly and didnt panic and cough up as most people do when the letter of claim comes.

 

so rinse dry and rewash.. again.

hoping he has moved or scared next time they write.

 

dx

 

 

[RobinB4nk]

thx dx,

 

really appreciate cag support, its very difficult for me to see my brother like this, he's really worried about it all. You're very experienced, you know all the emotions that people in these circumstances go through and you know all to well the predator tactics used by these dca's who exploit peoples ignorance and emotional weakness when they are vulnerable.

 

And yes he has asked if he should just start paying whatever and yes hes worried about people coming to the house and taking stuff etc... and its on me as his big brother to just keep him cool,  its very emotional.

 

This is a debt that the FOS are investigating and believe they can uphold his complaint, BC sold it off in an instant when things weren't going there money making way. its just unbelievable!

 

Once again thank you for all that you do for everyone

[RobinB4nk]

ok guys, its landed. just received county court claim from Northampton. whats the next move please?

[dx100uk]

please complete this:

 

 

dx

[RobinB4nk]

ok Dx:

 

Which Court have you received the claim from ? Name County Court Northampton 

 

Name of the Claimant ?  PRA Group
 

Date of issue – 16/11/22

Particulars of Claim
What is the claim for – 

1.the Claimant claims the sum of 17,000 for an outstanding debt owed.

 

2. On xx/xx/2000 the Defendant entered into an agreement with Barclays Bank PLC for a Credit Card under reference xxxxxxxxxxx.

 

3. On xx/xx/22 the Defendant defaulted on the agreement with an outstanding balance of 17,000.

 

4. On xx/xx/22 the debt of 17,000 was assigned to PRA Group (UK) LTD. Notices of assignment were sent to the Defendant in accordance with S136 law of Property Act 1925.

 

AND THE CLAIMENT CLAIMS

1. The sum of £17,000

 

What is the total value of the claim? Approx. 17,000
 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ?
I received the pack and requested a CCA, they responded with the documents as uploaded to CAG. they then responded believing they had complied and would commence legal preceding’s if they heard nothing.
 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No

 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a

 

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Credit Card
 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? Before
 

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Not sure
 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? debt settled with BC, now showing with PRA
 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Claim from debt purchaser
 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Not sure
 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Not sure
 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? n/a
 

Why did you cease payments? Couldn’t afford to 
 

What was the date of your last payment? oct 2021
 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? yes, made complaint to FOS who believes there has been irresponsible lending, still ongoing.
 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? yes i made a complaint re irresponsible lending, I didn’t enter into a debt plan.
 

claim.pdf

[RobinB4nk]

Hi everyone,

I need to start on getting this defence down on paper now. just want to ask a few questions:

 

Do you think pra have satisfied the cca with the recon? and is the defence solely reliant on it being a pre 2007 agreement?

should i be mentioning the FOS investigating this or not?

 

many thanks

 

 

[dx100uk]

no thats not compliant.

 

i would simply use our std holding/no paperwork defence already here in 100's of barclaycard claimform threads here already. reword the relevant line to... the claimant has failed to sufficiently comply with my CCA request sent (date) (by Method.

 

 

[RobinB4nk]

Ok great, I’ll post up before sending. Many thanks

 

just a quickie, I've obviously had the CCA response, should i be sending of a request under CPR part 18 as well?

[dx100uk]

no thats old hat and mainly to do with a fast track claims.

try and stick to reading threads not more than 3yrs old

 

dx

 

[RobinB4nk]

Hi CAG!

right, Ive read a fair few success BC claimforms and put together the following defence with a deadline this Friday. If you could just have a glance over that would be most appreciated. It's copy paste really, just wondered on the default notice, should i be saying i didnt get it? or should that be taken out?

 

look forward to hearing from you, many thanks.

 

 

The Claim –

1) The Claimant claims the sum of £17,xxx for an outstanding debt owed.

 

2) On xx/xx/2000 the Defendant entered into an agreement with Barclays Bank UK PLC for a Credit Card under reference XXXXXXXXXXX.

 

3) On XX/XX/2022 the Defendant defaulted on the agreement with an outstanding balance of £17,XXX.

 

4) On xx/xx/2022 the debt of £17,xxx was assigned to PRA Group (UK) LTD. Notices of assignment were sent to the Defendant in accordance with S136 Law of Property Act 1925.

 

5) AND THE CLAIMENT CLAIMS 1. The sum of £17,xxx

 

The Defence 

 

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

2. Paragraph 2 is noted and accepted that the Defendant has in the past had financial dealings with Barclays Bank UK PLC. I am unable to recall the precise details of the alleged agreement or debt by which the Claimant refers to within this claim.

 

The Defendant has sought clarification by way of a CPR 31.14 by Royal Mail with certificate of posting dated 16/09/2022. To this date the claimant has failed to sufficiently comply with my request and therefore is unable to prove its basis of claim pleaded within its particulars and therefore prevented from enforcing the agreement until such compliance.

 

3. Paragraph 3 is denied. I am not aware or ever receiving service of a Default Notice pursuant to section 87 of the consumer credit Act 1974. 

 

4. Paragraph 4 is noted and accepted; the defendant has received copies of notice of assignments from the claimant.

  

The Claimant has failed to provide evidence of balance/breach requested by CPR 31.14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and
(b) show and evidence the nature of the breach and service of a valid default notice;
(c) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and
 

5. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

6. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

[dx100uk]

On 21/10/2022 at 11:25, RobinB4nk said:

Right, there's been an update.

 

PRA have responded and claim they have 'fulfilled our obligation under the CCA'. their response was sent via an email containing a link to a secure area to download the documents.

 

The documents supplied were:
1, Dispute response
2, Agreement or Reconstituted Agreement
3, Budget calculator
4, CCA Factsheet
5, Default Notice
6, NOA
7, Statements (feb 21 - jan 22)

 

I've uploaded 'Dispute Response' and 'Agreement or reconstituted Agreement' so you can have a quick look and see what you think? If you need any of the other docs just let me know.

 

look forward to hearing your thoughts.

 

Many Thanks

Dispute response.pdf 266.72 kB · 1 download Agreement or Reconstituted Agreement.pdf 1.99 MB · 8 downloads

 

if we refer back to the above

their supposed recon is in fact, as they state, only a copy of historic and varied T&C's (thus NOT the Agreement.)

 

so as your 2 is wrong,

and you've failed at all to mention your previous CCA request made in reply to their letter of claim, dated xxxx

you need to insert that in, it's the failure to sufficiently comply to the CCA request that your 2nd line there refers too is non compliance

there is no required compliance to your CPR, they don't HAVE to comply to a CPR 31:14.

 

yes they've sent the DN so remove mention of that 

[RobinB4nk]

OK, yes brain fart there between CPR and CCA. any good now?

 

The Claim –

1) The Claimant claims the sum of £17,xxx for an outstanding debt owed.

2) On xx/xx/2000 the Defendant entered into an agreement with Barclays Bank UK PLC for a Credit Card under reference XXXXXXXXXX.

3) On xx/xx/2022 the Defendant defaulted on the agreement with an outstanding balance of £17,xxx.

4) On xx/xx/2022 the debt of £17,xxx was assigned to PRA Group (UK) LTD. Notices of assignment were sent to the Defendant in accordance with S136 Law of Property Act 1925.

5) AND THE CLAIMENT CLAIMS 1. The sum of £17,xxx

 

The Defence 

 

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

2. Paragraph 2 is noted and accepted that the Defendant has in the past had financial dealings with Barclays Bank UK PLC. I am unable to recall the precise details of the alleged agreement or debt by which the Claimant refers to within this claim.

 

3. The Defendant, following the Letter of Claim, sought clarification by way of a section 78 request sent via first class post, dated 16/09/2022. To date the claimant has failed to sufficiently comply with my CCA request and is therefore in default and unable to prove its basis of claim pleaded within its particulars and thus prevented from enforcing the agreement until such compliance.

 

  

It is therefore not accepted with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, and therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and
(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and
 

4. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

5. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

[RobinB4nk]

ok, ammended below, is this looking good enough now?

 

The Claim –

1) The Claimant claims the sum of £17,xxx for an outstanding debt owed.

2) On xx/xx/2000 the Defendant entered into an agreement with Barclays Bank UK PLC for a Credit Card under reference XXXXXXXXXX.

3) On xx/xx/2022 the Defendant defaulted on the agreement with an outstanding balance of £17,xxx.

4) On xx/xx/2022 the debt of £17,xxx was assigned to PRA Group (UK) LTD. Notices of assignment were sent to the Defendant in accordance with S136 Law of Property Act 1925.

5) AND THE CLAIMENT CLAIMS 1. The sum of £17,xxx

 

The Defence 

 

 

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

2. Paragraph 2 is noted and accepted that the Defendant has in the past had a contractual relationship with Barclays Bank UK PLC. I am unable to recall the precise details of the alleged agreement or debt by which the Claimant refers within this claim. The Defendant does not recognise the reference number provided by the claimant within its particulars.

 

The Defendant, following the Letter of Claim, sought clarification by way of a section 78 request sent first class post, dated 16/09/2022. To date the claimant has failed to sufficiently comply with my CCA request and is therefore in default and prevented from enforcing the agreement until such compliance.

   

3. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide evidence of agreement/balance requested by way of a section 78 request, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to: 

(a) show how the Defendant entered into an agreement; and 

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and 

(c) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.

 

4. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

5. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

[dx100uk]

wheres the bit CRP gone?

 

its barclaycard not barclays bank uk plc

.

 

dx

[RobinB4nk]

sry dx, I think I'm just getting lost with this.

 

Am i right in saying that there are two ways to request information. 1, through the CCA section 78, and 2 by CPR 31.14.

 

I only did a CCA under section 78, I didnt do a request under CPR 31.14.

 

does that make sense?

 

I thought barclaycard was barclays bank? I just took that from the particulars?

 

sry if im just getting this all wrong

[dx100uk]

On 17/11/2022 at 14:37, RobinB4nk said:

2. On xx/xx/2000 the Defendant entered into an agreement with Barclays Bank PLC for a Credit Card under reference xxxxxxxxxxx.

shows you how speculative their claims really are. the above co. does not issue barclaycards, barclaycard are a totally separate company. never mind. not your problem..sorry. leave as is then.

 

1 hour ago, RobinB4nk said:

Am i right in saying that there are two ways to request information. 1, through the CCA section 78, and 2 by CPR 31.14.

 

I only did a CCA under section 78, I didnt do a request under CPR 31.14.

 

send a cpr 31.14 now

 

both should be done upon the raising of a court claim.

 

our std response is this:

 

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
[if mcol is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time]
.
 register as an individual on the Gov't Gateway Site
Go to HMRC's login page.
Click the GREEN sign in button.
Click “Create sign in details”
Enter your email address where asked.
You will now be emailed a confirmation code. ...
You will now be issued with a User ID for your government gateway account.
 note down your details inc the long gateway number given, you might need it later.
 then log in to the MCOL Website
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked
 you DO NOT file a defence at this time
[BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ]
click thru to the end
confirm and exit MCOL.
..
get a CCA Request running to the claimant

.

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332502-cca-request-consumer-credit-act-1974-updated-january-2015/

..

Leave the £1 PO unsigned and uncrossed

.

get a CPR  31:14  request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]
...
.[use our other CPR letter if the claim is for an OD or Telecom Debt]
.

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332546-legal-cpr-3114-request-request-for-information-when-a-claim-has-been-issued/

.

on BOTH type your name ONLY
Do Not sign anything
.do not ever use or give an email
.
you DO NOT await the return of ANY paperwork 
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]

..............

you had, in response to the PAPLOC sent a CCA request, so one did not need repeating.

however you should have sent a CPR do that now

relate to that in your defence as ive indicated.

 

i appreciate we didnt post you that above info.

but..also you vanished for 3 weeks not asking either for advice.

 

you need to pull your hood strings in now as bad weather is coming...

though there is no real harm done.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RobinB4nk]

ok thx for clarifying dx.

 

cpr 31.14 sent this morning.

 

so should i not be saying ive never had a relationship with barclays bank if its a different organisation? would this not be illustrating their incompetence? or is this petty?

 

[Andyorch]

Barclaycard is a trading name of Barclays Bank UK PLC.

[RobinB4nk]

OK, thx Andy, will stick as we are.

 

if you and dx could have a look at the revised defence below, am i getting there?

 

The Claim –

1) The Claimant claims the sum of £17,XXX.XX for an outstanding debt owed.

2) On XX/XX/2000 the Defendant entered into an agreement with Barclays Bank UK PLC for a Credit Card under reference XXXXXXXXXXX.

3) On 28/01/2022 the Defendant defaulted on the agreement with an outstanding balance of £17,XXX.XX.

4) On XX/02/2022 the debt of £17,XXX.XX was assigned to PRA Group (UK) LTD. Notices of assignment were sent to the Defendant in accordance with S136 Law of Property Act 1925.

5) AND THE CLAIMENT CLAIMS 1. The sum of £17,XXX.XX

 

The Defence 

 

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

2. The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 5 (DISCLOSURE OF DOCUMENTS) of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) by failing to supply whole or in part documents requested and indeed has failed to provide explanation as to why.  It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.

 

3. Paragraph 2 is noted and accepted that the Defendant has in the past had a contractual relationship with Barclays Bank UK PLC. I am unable to recall the precise details of the alleged agreement or debt by which the Claimant refers within this claim. The Defendant does not recognise the reference number provided by the claimant within its particulars.

 

The Defendant has sought clarification by way of a section 78 request sent first class post, dated 16/09/2022. To date the claimant has failed to sufficiently comply with my CCA request and is therefore in default and prevented from enforcing the agreement until such compliance.

 

4. On the 15 December 2022, the Defendant sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the Claimants statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to the Claimant. The Defendant requested the Claimant provide copies of the Agreement, Default Notice, Notice of Assignment. To date the claimant has not sent any of these documents in relation to this request.

 

5. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant.  The Claimant has failed to comply with PAPDC, is in default of my CCA request and has not provided requested information under my CPR 31.14 request. Given the reasons as outlined the Claimant has failed to provide fully or in part evidence of agreement / assignment / balance / breach, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to: 

  

(a) Show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and 

(b) Show and evidence the nature of any breach and Default Notice; 

(c) Show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and 

(d) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.

6. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

7. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

[Andyorch]

The claimant makes no reference to a default notice being served simply that the agreement was defaulted ...you must put them to strict proof to disclose details of the breach irrespective of whether you received a Default Notice or not...an assignee won't know that you have received one nor are you stating you didn't receive one.

 

You have listed it at (b) but I would enforce it stronger in its own paragraph in response to their point 3 ...there is usually a reason as to why they have avoided mention within their particulars....rest is fine.

 

Andy

[RobinB4nk]

thanks andy for that. now submitted via MCO, see what happens!

 

FYI, final version below:

 

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

2. The Claimant has failed to comply with paragraph 5 (DISCLOSURE OF DOCUMENTS) of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) by failing to supply whole or in part documents requested and indeed has offered no explanation as to why.  It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.

 

3. Paragraph 2 is noted. The Defendant has had financial dealings in the past with Barclays Bank UK PLC. I am unable to recall the precise details of the alleged agreement or debt by which the Claimant refers within this claim. The Defendant does not recognise the reference number provided by the claimant within its particulars.
 
The Defendant sought clarification by way of a section 78 request sent Royal Mail 1st Class, dated 16/09/2022. To date the claimant has failed to sufficiently comply with my CCA request and is therefore in default and prevented from enforcing the agreement until such compliance.

 

4. Paragraph 3 is noted. The Defendant does not recall having received statutory notices in the form of a Default Notice required under s87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is put to strict proof to show and evidence the nature of any breach and Default Notice.

 

5. On the 15/12/22, the Defendant sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the Claimants statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to the Claimant. The Defendant requested the Claimant provide copies of the Agreement, Default Notice, Notice of Assignment. To date the claimant has not sent any of these documents in relation to this request.

 

6. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant.  The Claimant has failed to comply with PAPDC, is in default of my CCA request and has not provided requested information under my CPR 31.14 request. Given the reasons as outlined the Claimant has failed to provide fully or in part evidence of agreement / assignment / balance / breach, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to: 
  
(a) Show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and 
(b) Show and evidence the nature of any breach and Default Notice; and
(c) Show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and 
(d) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.

 

7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

8. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

[RobinB4nk]

just quick update on this, defence sent 16/12, its now 20/01 so now on day 35 and heard nothing? assume stayed? last entry on mcol defence received 16/12. any thoughts?

many thanks

[dx100uk]

it looks that way but as yours was across the holiday period id give it another week or two before you cheer.

we know there are delays from other cases here.

 

dx

[RobinB4nk]

Hi everyone, quick update.

 

Still heard nothing from courts or pra, mcol still shows last entry as defence received.

 

I have however heard from the FOS who have found in our favour and have requested that Barclaycard put my brother back to the position he would have  been in 2013! all negative info to be removed from credit file also.

 

Barclaycard have already agreed. the FOS said that they could only go back to 2013 as there wasn't enough evidence to prove irresponsible lending prior, but that doesn't mean there wasn't, just that they couldn't make a judgment.

 

So i now have no idea of the process or where that leaves everything, will have to wait and see. Also not sure if we still end up owing Barclaycard anything or not.

 

Will keep you all upto date. thank you all for your help on this, I will of course be making a donation! 

[dx100uk]

Pretty ok to assume the claim is automatically stayed then. It will cost pra +£275 to lift the stay etc if they want to risk it 

 

You won't owe anything to BC they sold the debt to pra.

 

They might pull the debt back buts that's rare, they'll probably simply force/tell pra to reduce the debt by the award 

 

How much was it?

 

Dx