Inconsiderate driving offence

[Hippylife]

Yes there were cars to my right waiting at the lights. No car started driving from any direction though, I know it's still an offence.

 

If I get a ban I'll lose my job as I use a work van. I won't be able to pay my mortgage etc. Would I be able to plead hardship?

 

I was on holiday when this letter was sent out to me so its been about 10 days now as i only got back on Saturday. I'm going to ring a solicitor after work today.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Hippylife

[Man in the middle]

Quote

Would I be able to plead hardship?

 

No. As I explained in post #8, that argument is only available for "totting up" bans (i.e. 12 points within three years). 

 

In any case, even when considering that argument, loss of employment alone would not normally be sufficient for the argument to succeed. Here's the Magistrates' guidance on the matter:

 

When considering whether there are grounds to reduce or avoid a totting up disqualification the court should have regard to the following:

It is for the offender to prove to the civil standard of proof that such grounds exist. Other than very exceptionally, this will require evidence from the offender, and where such evidence is given, it must be sworn.

 

Where it is asserted that hardship would be caused, the court must be satisfied that it is not merely inconvenience, or hardship, but exceptional hardship for which the court must have evidence;

 

Almost every disqualification entails hardship for the person disqualified and their immediate family. This is part of the deterrent objective of the provisions combined with the preventative effect of the order not to drive.

 

If a motorist continues to offend after becoming aware of the risk to their licence of further penalty points, the court can take this circumstance into account.

 

Courts should be cautious before accepting assertions of exceptional hardship without evidence that alternatives (including alternative means of transport) for avoiding exceptional hardship are not viable;

 

Loss of employment will be an inevitable consequence of a driving ban for many people. Evidence that loss of employment would follow from disqualification is not in itself sufficient to demonstrate exceptional hardship; whether or not it does will depend on the circumstances of the offender and the consequences of that loss of employment on the offender and/or others.

 

When you consult your solicitor, be sure to emphasise that it is driving without consideration that you have been charged with and not careless driving. As I have explained, there is a difference between the two in what has to be proved. From your description of events, you seem banged to rights for careless driving (and I cannot imagine why you have not been charged with that), but the offence with which you have been charged is nowhere near so clear cut.

 

Do let us know what you are advised.

 

 

[mantis shrimp]

It appears to be a good thing that there wasn't an idiot on the road.

[Hippylife]

I rang solicitors they won't talk to me I have to pay £180 and make an appointment. I've only got 10 days left. I mentioned about the inconsiderate driving charge thing and they said inconsiderate driving and careless driving are the same thing.

[honeybee13]

You could try other firms. The Law Society website has a Find a Solicitor search facility so you can find local specialist lawyers who do motoring offences.

 

HB

[Hippylife]

I've tried 3 all are saying the same thing. They've all got my email address and will email me when they can. Think I'll just plead guitly and not attend court got me round the twist this.

[honeybee13]

So what happens about your job if you plead guilty and are fined and given points?

 

If you could pay the £180, how much time would it get you with the lawyer, or other services?

 

HB

[Manxman in exile]

Is @mantis shrimp a phantom?

[Hippylife]

Managed to get in touch with a solicitor. Mentioned that someone with a dash cam sent footage to police and he tutted and said some people are very sad who has the time and day to do that.

 

I asked if he could support my case and he said yes, told me to fill out the paperwork and put plead guity but attend court and then let him know when I receive the court date.

[Man in the middle]

 

Quote

....they said inconsiderate driving and careless driving are the same thing.

 

You need to find a solicitor who will take the time to read Section 3ZA of the Road Traffic Act. Whilst the penalty for each offence is the same, the definitions (and hence what the prosecution has to prove) are different. Section 3ZA provides the definitions. You can see the difference between the two in paragraphs (2) and (4) :

 

Road Traffic Act 1988

WWW.LEGISLATION.GOV.UK

---

An Act to consolidate certain enactments relating to road traffic with amendments to give effect to recommendations of the Law Commission and the Scottish Law Commission.

 

I can't really assist any further. I don't know what the video shows but that is the only real evidence there is. All the rest (the statements, etc.) simply provide provenance to support the footage. I have a suspicion that the prosecution may amend the charge to one of careless driving. All they have to do for that is to prove that your driving fell below the standard of a competent and careful driver. From your description it certainly did.

[Man in the middle]

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I asked if he could support my case and he said yes, told me to fill out the paperwork and put plead guity but attend court and then let him know when I receive the court date.

 

If you are going to plead guilty I would save your money for your fines if I was you. For an offence such as this a solicitor is unlikely to save you anything like the amount you will be charged.

[Hippylife]

Do you really think I should not bother with a solicitor? I've ticked the box to attend to court so I'd be turning up by myself. Would a solicitor not help in any way? I'd be clueless on what to say I've never been in court before. The solicitor did mention that the officer or whoever could try make things worse for me by saying different things for example could of harmed a pedestrian. 

 

Also I was hoping a solicitor could help me from getting a ban? The fine isn't what worries me nor the points, just the ban.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Hippylife

[mantis shrimp]

1 hour ago, Manxman in exile said:

Is @mantis shrimp a phantom?

what do you mean? Are you?

[Man in the middle]

Quote

 I'd be clueless on what to say...

 

You don't have to say anything. In fact, in the first instance you will not be required to attend court at all because, unless you insist on a personal hearing, your case will be heard under the "Single Justice Procedure" and you cannot attend that hearing at all.  You can write anything you want the court to hear when you respond to your Single Justice Procedure Notice (which is what you currently have). 

 

Only if the SJ believes a ban should be considered will you be invited to attend (the SJ will not ban you in your absence). If no ban is considered you will simply be sentenced by the SJ  by way of a fine and points. If a ban is considered the SJ will adjourn your case and you will be given a date for a personal hearing in the normal court. If that happens, when you attend you can tell the court what effect a ban will have on you. You can decide at that stage whether to involve a lawyer or not.

 

There really is no point in engaging a lawyer at this stage because he or she cannot attend your SJ hearing either.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Man in the middle

[dx100uk]

46 minutes ago, Hippylife said:

Do you really think I should not bother with a solicitor?

no waste of money

 

dx

 

[Hippylife]

OK thanks I won't bother contacting him then. I've ticked the box plead guity but attend court, should I have ticked plead guity and not attend? 

 

Also in the mitigation box should I write anything in there? 

[Man in the middle]

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OK thanks I won't bother contacting him then. I've ticked the box plead guity but attend court, should I have ticked plead guity and not attend? 

 

Yes (unless you especially want to attend - which I imagine you don't).

 

Quote

Also in the mitigation box should I write anything in there? 

 

I don't think there is much you can say about the offence itself except perhaps "apologies for wasting the court's time, momentary lapse of concentration" that sort of thing. You should also have been sent a Form MC100 "Statement of Means", which you should complete with details of your income and outgoings. This will enable the court to calculate the appropriate fine. 

[Hippylife]

Yes I've been filling that out although because my wage isn't fixed I'm not sure what to put, I can earn anything from £400 to £900 a week depending on the work I do, how would I work this out? From last years p60?

 

I've also been writing a month next to each thing so for example it asks how much I spend on fuel I wrote £400 a month as I'm unsure on whether it's asking for weekly or monthly. I'm assuming the more money you put down for things like smoking, drinking, clothes, entertainment etc the more they will see you have money to spend? 

[mantis shrimp]

I would not describe this as a lapse of concentration. Any magistrate will see that you knew exactly what you were doing. You don't want them to think you are treating them like fools. 

[Hippylife]

I was just about to put momentary lapse of concentration. What should I put down? I've got this so far...

 

 

I apologise for wasting the courts time and I apologise for the wrong I have done. This has been a wake up call for me and as I drive for work I've promised myself I will never do anything like this again because without my license I cannot provide for my family. 

 

[mantis shrimp]

That is better.