German car shop in Leicester wont take car back 8 days after purchase.

[Aga.misia]

Dear German Cars

 

Letter of claim 

As you know, on 22 may 2021 date you sold me a Infinity Q50 model vehicle for 5430 pounds. Within a very few days, the car displayed various defects and an inspection I have had carried out has confirmed a number of serious issues not the least of which are a brake system which is apparently one down to the metal. This may be a cause of the vibrations which I have previously described to you although this will need further investigation.

There has been substantial amount of correspondence between us and you are fully aware of the problems that there are with the vehicle that you sold me but for the avoidance of doubt I am sending you a second copy of the report which has identified the faults. I should point out that the faults contained in this list are simply those which are identified fairly quickly and they may well be others.

I have been advised not to drive the car because it is dangerous and also that there is a risk that the problems could get worse. 
I have already written to you and pointed out that under the Consumer Rights Act I am entitled to a refund. You have refused to carry out your obligations under the Act and given a variety of excuses including that apparently the sale was a "trade sale" and therefore for some reason rather, you have no liability for selling a car in a dangerous and unroadworthy condition.

I require you to make arrangements to collect the vehicle from me and to provide me with a refund. Please note that I have lost confidence in you and therefore I will not be prepared to release the vehicle to you until I have the refund. You can pay this to me by bank transfer or you can ask your delivery driver to pay me the cash.

If you do not collect the vehicle and refund me within 14 days of this letter and I shall start to add storage charges of £10 per day and furthermore I shall issue legal proceedings against you in the County Court without any further notice. These legal proceedings will include references to your statutory obligations under the Consumer Rights Act, your selling of an unroadworthy vehicle which is an offence contrary to the Road Traffic Act and also unfair trading under the Contracts (Protection from Unfair Trading) Regulations 2008.

If you force me to take court action then I shall sue you for the reimbursement of the purchase price of the car, the accumulated storage fees, the ancillary losses which I have incurred – in particular in relation to insurance and tax plus interest which I understand is currently at 8%.

I'm not prepared to enter into any further discussions about this. I've already used my best efforts to hold dialogue with you.

If you wish to have the car inspected by your own independent inspector then please let me know. I'm happy to accommodate any reasonable arrangement by appointment but you should understand that this must be done within the 14 day timescale and at my home because as I have said, at the end of 14 days I shall issue court proceedings.

Yours sincerely

Aga xxx

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by Aga.misia

[BankFodder]

You have missed out the part about the MOT. It's very important – and although it will cost extra, you will recover that if you bring the action.

If you have an MOT carried out and it fails then that will add a lot of power to your case. There is no downside to getting in MOT and I'm surprised that you want to penny pinch.

You seem to be very casual about the way you spend your money and now that we are trying to help you get your money back, you are suddenly being very careful about saving a few quid on an important piece of evidence.

[Aga.misia]

I m sorry .  I m just scared I will have to pay tax , insurance all year , car on driveway , and I will loose case or if win the dealer will not pay . Sorry have to put myself together as I m in bits

 

If fail mot , and I deceide to pay for repairs and use car  can I claim it back from Dealer please ?.

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by Aga.misia

[BankFodder]

Well it's up to you. I think that an MOT failure certificate – and on the basis of what you say, it will fail – will be the final nail in the coffin of this dealer. If you produce an MOT fell certificate, they may even decide not to risk any challenge to you and simply to pay you out.

We are giving you the best advice and we are helping you protect your interest in the best way possible. Once again, it's amazing that you've been prepared to spend your money and take these kinds of risks, but the moment that you are getting sound advice in your best interests, you start to get cagey.

 

[BankFodder]

If you decide that you want to start using the car, then we would have to examine how much it would cost to put the car into a proper condition. You would have to get a list of defects and estimates for the repairs and we would then have to submit that list and the estimate for the cost of the repairs to the dealer and tell them that they would be welcome to inspect the vehicle so that they can confirm or dispute the defects – and the cost of repairs – but after a certain amount of time, say, 10 days, you will be proceeding to have the repairs put in hand in order to make the car roadworthy and after that you will be suing them for your costs.

You have suggested that the car might pass its MOT – but if it is correct that the brakes are down to the metal, then it will definitely fail and I don't even think they would be advisories. You will be obliged to take it off the road.

If you want to get a refund then you should not drive the car under any circumstances other than to get the MOT and then return it to your driveway.

I have to say that I think we've given you all the advice we can on this, I can see that you are distressed and in a panic state afraid that it is becoming difficult to support you on this. We are giving you the best way forward and it's now for you to take up our advice or else to let it go.

I'm afraid I don't know what else to say

[Aga.misia]

I will book MOT and repair if necessarly  , and put cost on dealer in claim . I m.full time worker  cant afford not having car for such longer time unfortunately.

 My boyfriend works away and he will not be able to borrow me his car . 

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by Aga.misia

[BankFodder]

In that case write to the dealer immediately. You must give them advance notice.

Tell them that you are having the car examined and you are having a new MOT done because you don't trust them. Tell them that you will let them know the results and that you will decide whether or not to sue them for a complete refund or for the cost of putting the car into a roadworthy condition. Tell them that you will keep them completely informed as to the results of any inspections and the cost of any repairs before they are put in hand.

It's essential that you send this letter in advance so that they are fully aware. If you do not warn them about inspections and possible costs then you will find it very difficult to claim any money.

Do that straightaway. Draft a letter and post it here.

Then put the car infer that the MOT, get the car fully inspected at the same time and get an estimate for repairs and come back here and let us know.

Don't forget though, that once you have repairs carried out to the car then you are probably stuck with it and if there are any further defects in the future, you will still have the same problem of dealing with a dealer who is obviously not interested in helping you and is a long distance away.

However, draft a letter that you are going to send and post it here

[BankFodder]

We've been busy advising you the best options – and it's becoming very difficult because you simply want reassurance and you seem to be stuck in some mindset.

We've advised you the best way.

Send a letter of claim that we have already proposed – including the reference to the MOT test that you are going to have carried out this week.

Get the MOT test carried out – it will undoubtedly produce a failed certificate because of what you have told us about the brakes.

When you get the MOT fail certificate, send a copy of it to the dealer so that they have the letter of claim, the list of defects which you have found so far plus the MOT failure certificate.

In 14 days, issue the claim.

There is quite a chance that the dealer will realise that you are being serious and will want to put an end to the problem and refund you. If they don't then it will continue and go to mediation – and then maybe to a court hearing which would either be held remotely or else would be held at your local court.

Of course we will help you with the way – but am afraid we can't cope with your anxiety, panic – et cetera.

I don't really know what you think is going to happen to you. You are going to get in trouble. You've lost your money already. You will need to invest a little bit more to get it back but I'm very confident that you will get it back .

[BankFodder]

Take pictures of the oil – and maybe try to take a sample in a small bottle.

It doesn't change anything – it simply helps you.

Please will you post up your final version of the letter of claim and then when we have checked that it is complete, send it off.

If you won't send it off then there is nothing else we can do for you

[BankFodder]

Also I would recommend that you stop contacting the dealer by text – or by any other means without checking with us first.

 

[Aga.misia]

Dear German Cars

 

Letter of claim 

As you know, on XXX date you sold me a XXX model vehicle for XXX pounds. Within a very few days, the car displayed various defects and an inspection I have had carried out has confirmed a number of serious issues not the least of which are a brake system which is apparently one down to the metal. This may be a cause of the vibrations which I have previously described to you although this will need further investigation.

There has been substantial amount of correspondence between us and you are fully aware of the problems that there are with the vehicle that you sold me but for the avoidance of doubt I am sending you a second copy of the report which has identified the faults. I should point out that the faults contained in this list are simply those which are identified fairly quickly and they may well be others.

I have been advised not to drive the car because it is unroadworthy and also that there is a risk that the problems could get worse. I will not be driving the vehicle although I will be putting it through another MOT in order to get a better picture of the car's condition.

I have already written to you and pointed out that under the Consumer Rights Act I am entitled to a refund. You have refused to carry out your obligations under the Act and given a variety of excuses including that apparently the sale was a "trade sale" and therefore for some reason rather, you have no liability for selling a car in a dangerous and unroadworthy condition.

I require you to make arrangements to collect the vehicle from me and to provide me with a refund. Please note that I have lost confidence in you and therefore I will not be prepared to release the vehicle to you until I have the refund. You can pay this to me by bank transfer or you can ask your delivery driver to pay me the cash.

If you do not collect the vehicle and refund me within 14 days of this letter and I shall start to add storage charges of £10 per day and furthermore I shall issue legal proceedings against you in the County Court without any further notice. These legal proceedings will include references to your statutory obligations under the Consumer Rights Act, your selling of an unroadworthy vehicle which is an offence contrary to the Road Traffic Act and also unfair trading under the Contracts (Protection from Unfair Trading) Regulations 2008.

If you force me to take court action then I shall sue you for the reimbursement of the purchase price of the car, the accumulated storage fees, the ancillary losses which I have incurred – in particular in relation to insurance and tax plus interest which I understand is currently at 8%.  I shall also be applying for reimbursement of the MOT fee.

I'm not prepared to enter into any further discussions about this. I've already used my best efforts to hold dialogue with you.

If you wish to have the car inspected by your own independent inspector then please let me know. I'm happy to accommodate any reasonable arrangement by appointment but you should understand that this must be done within the 14 day timescale and at my home because as I have said, at the end of 14 days I shall issue court proceedings.

Yours sincerely

Xxx

[Aga.misia]

I just have question, do I have to agree for his inspection even within 30 days ? , what if he wants it in his location ? I had independent report but Dealer is not accepting it

[BankFodder]

First of all, the letter of claim you have posted above is not the finished version because you have left XXX in place instead of the details.

Secondly, I've added an extra sentence in red relating to the MOT charge.

Finally, if he wants to arrange an inspection at your storage location – then yes you should agree to it. If he wants it in his location then it's just too bad. You aren't prepared to drive a dangerous car all that way and also because you don't trust in you aren't prepared to release the car to him until you have the reimbursement. This is nonnegotiable.

Of course the dealer doesn't accept the independent report. If the dealer did accept it then you would get your refund.

This is precisely why you are in dispute.

Please will you post up the finished version of the letter of claim. This is about the third time that I've asked you this

[Aga.misia]

Dear German Cars

 

Letter of claim 

As you know, on 22 may 2021 date you sold me a Infinity Q50 model vehicle for 5430 pounds. Within a very few days, the car displayed various defects and an inspection I have had carried out has confirmed a number of serious issues not the least of which are a brake system which is apparently one down to the metal. This may be a cause of the vibrations which I have previously described to you although this will need further investigation.

There has been substantial amount of correspondence between us and you are fully aware of the problems that there are with the vehicle that you sold me but for the avoidance of doubt I am sending you a second copy of the report which has identified the faults. I should point out that the faults contained in this list are simply those which are identified fairly quickly and they may well be others.

I have been advised not to drive the car because it is unroadworthy and also that there is a risk that the problems could get worse. I will not be driving the vehicle although I will be putting it through another MOT in order to get a better picture of the car's condition.

I have already written to you and pointed out that under the Consumer Rights Act I am entitled to a refund. You have refused to carry out your obligations under the Act and given a variety of excuses including that apparently the sale was a "trade sale" and therefore for some reason rather, you have no liability for selling a car in a dangerous and unroadworthy condition.

I require you to make arrangements to collect the vehicle from me and to provide me with a refund. Please note that I have lost confidence in you and therefore I will not be prepared to release the vehicle to you until I have the refund. You can pay this to me by bank transfer or you can ask your delivery driver to pay me the cash.

If you do not collect the vehicle and refund me within 14 days of this letter and I shall start to add storage charges of £10 per day and furthermore I shall issue legal proceedings against you in the County Court without any further notice. These legal proceedings will include references to your statutory obligations under the Consumer Rights Act, your selling of an unroadworthy vehicle which is an offence contrary to the Road Traffic Act and also unfair trading under the Contracts (Protection from Unfair Trading) Regulations 2008.

If you force me to take court action then I shall sue you for the reimbursement of the purchase price of the car, the accumulated storage fees, the ancillary losses which I have incurred – in particular in relation to insurance and tax plus interest which I understand is currently at 8%.  I shall also be applying for reimbursement of the MOT fee.

I'm not prepared to enter into any further discussions about this. I've already used my best efforts to hold dialogue with you.

If you wish to have the car inspected by your own independent inspector then please let me know. I'm happy to accommodate any reasonable arrangement by appointment but you should understand that this must be done within the 14 day timescale and at my home because as I have said, at the end of 14 days I shall issue court proceedings.

Yours sincerely

Aga 

 

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• Quote
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• Report

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by Aga.misia

[BankFodder]

Okay. Make sure that you change all the colours so that they are black.

Once again – this letter deftly means on day 15 you will issue the claim if your demands are not met. This doesn't mean that they enter into negotiation or they start trying to delay you. This means that they must absolutely agree, they must have paid you back your money and they must have removed the car.

If you have the slightest doubt about taking the legal action on day 15 then do not send this letter because you will only lose credibility. It's not a bluff.

As you have seen, we will help you all the way and you won't be on your own – but you are certainly going to have to do something about your level of confidence. Once you are in the procedure, you will start to find that it's much easier

[BankFodder]

Well done. Start preparing the basics – naming the parties involved et cetera.

It will be a good idea to list here what you are claiming together with the values.

So: cost of the car – £XXX
cost of going to get it and then returning with it £XXX
cost of an MOT or any other inspections £XXX
storage at £10 per day from the date of the claim £– you will simply have to put the daily rate here.
Cost of tax and insurance: £XXX

Anything else?

[Aga.misia]

Briefly explain your claim

Tell us why you believe the defendant owes you money.

Don’t give us a detailed timeline - we’ll ask for that separately.

You’ll have to pay an extra fee if you want to change the details of the claim later.

 

Can you help what write there pls

[Aga.misia]

 

Quote

 

good afternoon.

 

thankyou for your e-mail. As a business we always comply with consumer rights. however in your case, you have changed your story a number of times. you first stated your friend told you that you paid to much, you then stated the car vibrates, we informed you that it is a diesel and unlike your old petrol car they are slightly different, we also asked you for video evidence which you failed to send. you then stated your brake pads are down to the metal which makes no sense as we already have a report which states the brakes are ok. We have been trading for years and we always ensure our cars are safe before sale. we then asked you for picture and video evidence which again you have failed to give. The report you have sent does not have any pictures or videos of the car. your initial claim was that you paid to much for the vehicle and that your friends car which has 50k miles compared to yours with 170k miles was a better car. 

 

Please do not carry out any work or mot on the car. due to the suspicious circumstance surrounding your claim we will not accept any mot or diagnosis carried out by you or your chosen garages. I am happy to instruct a local independant garage in your area to carry out an inspection on the vehicle to find and gather evidence on any problems if any.. the vehicle may have.

 

i will have this arranged over the next 7-10 woking days, it will require you to take it to the local garage once the appointment has been booked. please state any days/times you are not free over the next 7 working days.

 

kind regards.

 

german car shop.

 

 

 

Please any advice ?

[Aga.misia]

This guy is lying.My prevous car was diesel not petrol  , I only said  told nhim I felt Like I overpaid - thats what local dealers told me   and when I checked myself on websites. 

Strong Vibration are on sterring wheel , seats , are when  I press brakes  or start up car .

Should I send him viedos of vibrations ? Brake pads I will not be able to send  photos. 

 

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Aga.misia

[honeybee13]

I don't think you need to act immediately on the dealer's messge, Aga. Best to wait for BankFodder and take this calmly. You'll be OK if you follow his advice.

 

Your court stuff isn't urgent at the moment either, you gave the dealer 14 days from receiving your letter before claim so at the moment as I understand it, you're just getting your claim ready to go after Day 14.

 

HB

[Aga.misia]

Thank you for support

The costs : 

cost of the car – £5430
cost of going to get it and then returning with it £45
cost of an MOT or any other inspections £47
storage at £10 per day from the date of the claim £– you will simply have to put the daily rate here.
Cost of tax and insurance: £ insurance 52,35 , tax 11.37

[BankFodder]

Quote

 

Further to the letter of claim which I sent you dated XXX, I'm now giving you notification of some of the costs which I shall be claiming from you as part of the County Court claim.

They are:

Cost of the car – £5430
Cost of going to get it from you and then returning with it - petrol costs - £45
Cost of an MOT or any other inspections £47

 

Also, as pointed out in my letter of claim, if I do not receive full reimbursement from you at the expiry of the 14 day deadline, then I shall be adding a £10 per day storage fee. This will be calculated by the judge when judgement is given to me.
 

I have booked a car in for an MOT next Monday and of course I shall let you know the result once the test has been carried out.

You say that you want to carry out your own independent inspection. Of course I would be delighted and I have already suggested this in my letter of claim. However, this will not stop the clock. You have been completely uncooperative in your correspondence with me and you have clear statutory duties. If you want to have an inspection carried out then you should arrange it and let me know. However, the car is in a dangerous condition and I shall not be driving it anywhere. You can arrange to have the inspection carried out at my home where the car is stored or we may possibly be able to arrange for your inspector to collect the car for the purpose of the inspection as long as it is returned.

I should point out now that I would need good security for the return of the car because as I have previously pointed out to you, I don't trust you anymore.

 

Your attempt to brand this as some kind of "trade sale" as an example of your dishonest attempt to try and avoid your obligations to a consumer. You can be certain that this will be brought before the judge and I am quite confident that the judge will not be happy about it.

In addition you need to factor in interest which at the County Court rate is currently calculated at 8%.

Finally, when I received a judgement from the court will be awarded costs.

You have sent me a further email but as I have already pointed out to you, I'm not prepared to get into any further discussion. Carry out your inspection – but let me know. Arrange to collect the car reimburse me and that's the end of the matter.

If you want to reimburse me then I will simply take the price of the car and I will absorb the rest of the costs.

It's up to you
 

 

 

Please check the above email and see if you agree with it and you are prepared to send it. If you are then send it to the dealer immediately. That is your response to the email which you have sent you. As I have already advised you, you should not communicate with them at all other than under our direction.

You can see that the suggested email above does not particularly refer to his message other than to deal with his proposal that an inspection is carried out – which is fine – and that you should drive the car – which is not fine.

You consider the car is unroadworthy and dangerous. You are only allowed to go for an MOT to confirm this. Other than that, it is his responsibility and it's up to him to organise it to collect the car.

Please let's know if you are okay with the proposed message above

[BankFodder]

Please confirm that you have sent it.

 

When you take the car for the MOT - show them the report you have obtained and ask them particularly to look at the brakes.

Also tell them that you are very worried about the general condition of the car because you have just bought it and you suspect it of being unroadworthy

[Aga.misia]

Can I do MOT in same place I got report from ?

[BankFodder]

Yes I don't see why not – but I thought you said you had already booked it?

It would actually be better if you take into a different MOT station so you've got effectively two independent reports