RBS - PPi and life insurance on same claim?

[honeybee13]

I haven't re-read the thread but what you describe sounds to me like a decreasing term assurance that would run alongside a repayment mortgage.

 

Does that make any sense in your situation?

 

HB

[NGEddie]

Yes HB, this is pretty much it

[dx100uk]

oh well only 4yrs to go.

what a con from day one...

 

HB this policy was sold together with various PPI products upon taking out an RBS Mortage in 2003, everything else they agreed was mis sold and has been refunded in full.

 

but because they say this is not PPI so is not covered by the changes in DISP waving the 6yrs rule toward anything PPI, reclaiming this is out of time, and to boot the mortgage it was taken out with was fully paid off in 2009...

[NGEddie]

I'm sure I can just cancel this now though?

 

The weird thing is the RBS agent is talking like she thinks I knew it was optional when the policy started (the bits in bold and underlined)

 

Below I have listed the concerns you raised and overall, I have considered the following:

• You believe your DTA has been mis-sold.

• Your mortgage was not an endowment mortgage, so there was no legal requirement to have nor should the bank have made this plan compulsory.

• The only beneficiary was the bank through ultimate direct payment should something have happened to you settling your mortgage sum.

 

When looking into complaints, I am guided by the rules from our Regulators, the Financial Conduct Authority. These rules are known as the Dispute Resolution rules, or DISP rules. These rules place a responsibility on customers to raise any complaint or concerns within a reasonable period of time; a complaint should be raised within six years of when the advice was provided or, if later, within three years from when a customer first became aware (or should have reasonably become aware) that they had cause to complain.

 

The concerns that you have raised above about your DTA were known to you at the time you took it out and therefore you ought to have reasonably been aware that you had cause for complaint at that time.

 

Can I not just reiterate that I only realised in 2019, when I submitted all the claims together?

[NGEddie]

Any thoughts please?

 

Do I have anywhere to go on this?

 

Cheers

 

E!

[dx100uk]

Not reclaiming wise no.

But for the sake of £xxpcm till its term ends you have life or poss critical illness/injury cover still worth £1000's if anything happens.

Imho its not worth stopping now as i bet there is no cash in nor cover once you cease payment

 

Dx

[NGEddie]

Thank you for all of your help dx

 

I guess I could always express my disappointment as a customer of nearly 30 years with them, nothing to lose.

 

I do tend to agree with your point though

[dx100uk]

open

 

 

[NGEddie]

Hi dx and all

 

I thought I would have another try at this and explained I felt they had misunderstood my complaint in their comments that I knew it was not compulsory when I the product was added.

The reply from them advised they would actually now investigate and interestingly there is no longer a mention of the time factor and needing to have complained within 3 or 6 years, relevant?

 

My comments for you are the ones in bold and brackets.

 

Here is the outcome:

 

I’m writing further to our recent email exchange. Having considered all the information,

I’m not supporting your complaint and my reasons for this are shown below.

I’m giving you £ as an apology for the time taken to investigate your complaint since

you originally raised it. (this is interesting or a tactic to persuade me not to appeal?)

 

Your complaint

 

You raised the following concerns:

 

• You believe your DTA has been mis-sold.

• Your mortgage was not an endowment mortgage, so there was no legal

requirement to have nor should the bank have made the plan compulsory.

• The only beneficiary was the bank through ultimate direct payment should

something have happened to you settling your mortgage sum.

 

Outcome

 

Our records show that you took your above plan out on a non-advised basis (I do not agree with this as I was told I neeed to have this product but cannot recall when this happened) at your local

branch on 2003. The branch representative that you would have seen wasn’t a

financial adviser and therefore was unable to provide financial advice or make a

recommendation about which plan would best suit your needs.

 

You therefore took your plan out on a self-select basis without either seeking or receiving

any advice from the bank. This would have been explained to you in full before you

decided to proceed.

 

You chose to apply for a DTA with an initial sum assured of £ over twenty-two

years for a minimum premium of £5 per month. You’ve advised us that you took this plan

out for protection for the mortgage you held with the bank at the time.

 

I can see that you had taken out a mortgage with the bank on 1999 for £

over 25 years on a repayment basis. When you took this mortgage out in 1999 your

mortgage offer confirms that it was a condition of your mortgage being granted that you

take out suitable life cover for £. (were they able to make it a condition? And also why was it not added in 1999 but instead in 2003? I am confused about this)

 

As above, the branch representative was not able to provide you with any advice. They

were only trained to be able to provide you with information on the types of protection

plans the bank could offer. It was then up to you to decide which plan you wanted to take

forward if nay.

 

Your plan would have been explained before you decided to proceed, and you were under

no obligation to go ahead with the application.

 

After your plan was issued you would have received your product brochure and policy

booklet, which included your plan document and terms and conditions. These documents

explained the nature of your plan and how it worked. You also would have received your

cancellation notice that allowed you to cancel the plan if you thought it no longer met

meet your needs or if you had simply changed your mind. (I do actually have a letter to this affect in the things I have, relevant?)

 

Life assurance provides a valuable benefit and peace of mind. In the case of a plan taken

out to protect a mortgage, when linked to a mortgage, it ensures that the estate or spouse

of the life assured if applicable has the funds to repay the mortgage debt. In other words,

it is meant to ensure that the surviving family or spouse if applicable aren’t left to repay

the mortgage.

 

I understand that the bank made your plan compulsory. I wasn’t party to the meeting

when you took your plan out. I therefore have to base my decision on the documentation

that we hold. As above, it was a condition of your mortgage in 1999 that you take out

suitable life cover. However, I haven’t been able to find anything that would lead me to

believe that you were told this plan was compulsory in 2003.

 

I appreciate your comment that as the bank has accepted your complaint for your

mortgage and loan Payment Protection Insurance (PPI), you believe this must be the case

for your DTA also, as you understand there is very little difference between the eligibility

criteria for the two.

 

I would like to confirm that PPI and life assurance plans are two different products that

provide very different benefits and even though they may be taken out for the same

mortgage, they aren’t linked in anyway. We are also required to investigate each

complaint on its own merits.

 

PPI is designed to cover your monthly repayments on a mortgage if you are unable to

meet them due to sickness, accident, or unemployment. PPI was also often included in

your monthly mortgage payment unlike life assurance, which you had a separate direct

debit for.

 

A DTA is designed to provide a lump sum to enable you or your estate to repay the

mortgage in the event that you die.

 

Our Decision

 

Although I am mindful of the concerns that you have raised, overall, I’ve concluded that

you were able to make an informed choice to take your plan out. Therefore, I am unable

to uphold your complaint.

 

What are your thoughts about this please?

 

Many thanks

 

E

[dx100uk]

54 minutes ago, NGEddie said:

However, I haven’t been able to find anything that would lead me to

believe that you were told this plan was compulsory in 2003.

 

other than the advisor getting a healthy commission back hander for selling it....

 

[NGEddie]

Indeed

 

I guess I cannot exactly say this.

 

How about the mortgage conditions saying I had to have life cover?

[NGEddie]

We know I was told to have it, they probably know this but are saying otherwise.

 

Is there anywhere to go on this?