RBS - PPi and life insurance on same claim?

[dx100uk]

both 

[NGEddie]

Ok

 

You said before:

  On 16/02/2020 at 12:42, NGEddie said:

When I mentioned this on the phone the woman quickly said 'we dont do life insurance' but this is life 'assurance' and was told I must have it!

it was not an endowment mortgage!! so it's PPI.

 

==========================================

So far they have admitted to miss selling loan PPI and admitted to miss selling the mortgage PPi

 

They seem to be pushing back on the decreasing term insurance.

 

One thing to point out, the mortgage PPi was December 2000 until May 2005

 

The decreasing term insurance/life protector started April 2003, changed to Aviva June 2011 and is current now 

 

I am a bit loathed to go with their 'relevant department' in case they said PPi time was last year?

 

What do you suggest?

 

 

[dx100uk]

we keep going around and around in circle eddie

 

you have already put in a complaint encompassing this insurance in time.

this is just firming things up.

 

 

[NGEddie]

Ok sure, so i'll write to the PPi department, reiterate I believe it was missold the life assurance and ask them to forward to the other department if they claim they cannot do this themselves?

[NGEddie]

Long delay with things going on in the world!

 

I would like to settle this one...

 

• PPi claims done previous year in time

 

• They offered £ on loan PPi which I accepted and have been paid

 

• They agreed they mis-sold the mortgage PPi and offered £ but calculation wrong and waiting on revised offer

 

• They batted the decreasing term insurance/life protector to me saying it is not the PPi department

 

From now, I know this life protector started at a few years after the loan and mortgage PPi and know they said I 'had' to have it. Guess I write to this other department saying believe was also mis-sold like the others?

 

Many thanks!

 

 

[NGEddie]

I have drafted a letter to direct the complaint to the decreasing term assurance team following ppi team saying they cannot deal with these.

 

My only concern, dx, is in a previous post you said you cant reclaim these alone as they are not ppi.

 

Are they being crafty as we grouped it together from the start 'ppi and associated insurances' and it seems they might be trying to separate them?

 

Thoughts please?

[honeybee13]

Hi Eddie.

 

To save us re-reading the thread, can you remind us why you think the decreasing term assurance was mis-sold please? And did you buy it through an advisor?

 

HB

[NGEddie]

Hi HB

 

Sure, I recall being told I had to have the decreasing term life assurance alongside the mortgage which started in 2003 and this was by an advisor in the branch.

 

I submitted the PPi claim in 2019 in time which covered a loan ppi, mortgage ppi and this decreasing term life assurance. I referred to them all together as 'ppi and associated insurances' on advice.

 

They have admitted to miss-selling the loan in 1998, the mortgage ppi in 1999 but are saying there is a separate decreasing term life assurance team who I now need to make the complaint to which is where I am a little concerned?

 

Hope this helps.

 

E!

 

Anyone advice please?

 

Really not sure how to reply as feels like they are trying to separate the ppi and life assurance by pushing me to the other department. The whole thing with this was to group them together 

[honeybee13]

I have no experience of PPI claims myself but I do know that PPI and decreasing term assurance aren't the same thing.

 

I may have asked this before, but why do you think you were missold the decreasing term assurance please? I assume you had a written recommendation at the time.

 

HB

[dx100uk]

On 10/10/2020 at 20:17, NGEddie said:

From now, I know this life protector started at a few years after the loan and mortgage PPi and know they said I 'had' to have it. Guess I write to this other department saying believe was also mis-sold like the others?

 

typically with most lenders say like welcome finance etc, they were all sold together and in the past, they have all been refunded together.

it seems from the above that the life might have been later, though probably signed up for at the same time.

 

can't see any harm in going for mis-sale sep then if this is the case, you have proof you launched it before any deadline, but of course as they are saying it's not PPI , then no deadline can apply...this could be interesting if they say the deadline has expired..

[NGEddie]

1 hour ago, honeybee13 said:

I may have asked this before, but why do you think you were missold the decreasing term assurance please? I assume you had a written recommendation at the time.

 

HB

 

I recall being told I need to have this incase something happened to me as it would cover paying off the mortgage. Weird thing is, I started the mortgage in 1999 and the assurance started in 2003 from the paperwork I have.

Edited November 29, 2020 by NGEddie
Typo

[NGEddie]

15 minutes ago, dx100uk said:

can't see any harm in going for mis-sale sep then if this is the case, you have proof you launched it before any deadline, but of course as they are saying it's not PPI , then no deadline can apply...this could be interesting if they say the deadline has expired..

 

I worded the initial claim 'ppi and associated insurances' as you advised dx to link them.

 

I guess I don't really have a choice but let the ppi team refer the complaint to that department, as ppi team keep saying they do not deal with these policies?

[dx100uk]

doesn't matter really..eitherway you've covered yourself

 

if they claim a cut-off, which doesn't apply as they are saying it's not PPI you've met it anyway...

 

if they accept your complaint then there's evidence it was mis-sold, as the PPI was mis-sold and refunded, so must the life ins as it was all done at the same time. there is very little eligibility criteria difference between the two 

[NGEddie]

I am also yet to have any contact from the relevant department you refer to regarding the miss-selling of the RSA Life protector decreasing term assurance and wish to reiterate that I should not need to point out

 

the mortgage I signed up to was not an endowment policy,

therefore there was legal requirement to have,

nor should you have made, either policy compulsory.

 

The only beneficiary was yourselves through ultimate direct payment should something have happened to me settling your mortgage sum.

 

Please forward this complaint to the decreasing term assurance team and request they contact me in writing.

 

Read ok?

[dx100uk]

1 hour ago, NGEddie said:

therefore there was legal requirement to have,

 

[NGEddie]

Well spotted!

[NGEddie]

I have a reply on the RSA life protector!

 

Email the other week from the Natwest Customer Concerns Unit advising the investigation is starting now and they want to understand the complaint and call me.

 

I replied and said please write or email as I didn't want to speak over the phone.

 

Another email today asking for my number so they can update me and can send a response once they have spoken to me.

 

I'm sure I read before to keep this all in writing and not engage in phone calls?

 

Cheers

 

E!

 

[dx100uk]

[NGEddie]

Got a reply today saying they are guided by Dispute Resolution rules, or DISP rules which places it on me to have raised a complaint within six years?

 

It goes onto say because I have stated there was no legal requirement to have to have this plan neither should the bank have made this plan compulsory, I would have known this at the time I took it out (which I didn't!) and therefore ought to have been aware of cause for complaint at the time if I was unhappy with any of the conditions attached to the mortgage I was free not accept the bank’s offer and to seek to get the mortgage I wanted with a different lender. Therefore, at that time, I had sufficient knowledge and opportunity to raise my concerns, which I have done so recently.

 

Based on the information, not aware of any exceptional circumstances which may have prevented from raising a complaint sooner. In the circumstances, They believe that Regulator’s DISP rules apply to the concerns raised regarding plan. therefore, unable to consider complaint further as, in view; these concerns should have been raised no later than 2009, which is six years after took your plan out. However, if I have exceptional circumstances then please let them know.

 

What do you make of this? Obviously at the time I didnt know it wasn't compulsory etc...

[dx100uk]

rather see letters than your interpretation please 

[NGEddie]

Thank you for raising your concerns; when a complaint is received by the bank, we first need to consider whether it has been received within the time limits specified by the bank’s regulator, The Financial Conduct Authority (FCA). These are explained in more detail further on in this letter. Having reviewed your specific concerns, the bank believes that they have been received outside of these time limits. In view of this, I have not carried out an investigation into the merits of your complaint.

 

Your complaint

 

It is important to make sure I have fully understood your concerns and have taken these into account during my consideration of your complaint.

 

Below I have listed the concerns you raised and overall, I have considered the following:

• You believe your DTA has been mis-sold.

• Your mortgage was not an endowment mortgage, so there was no legal requirement to have nor should the bank have made this plan compulsory.

• The only beneficiary was the bank through ultimate direct payment should something have happened to you settling your mortgage sum.

 

If you believe that I have misunderstood your concerns or have missed anything out, then please let me know.

 

My decision

You applied to take out your above DTA on xxxx.

 

When looking into complaints, I am guided by the rules from our Regulators, the Financial Conduct Authority. These rules are known as the Dispute Resolution rules, or DISP rules. These rules place a responsibility on customers to raise any complaint or concerns within a reasonable period of time; a complaint should be raised within six years of when the advice was provided or, if later, within three years from when a customer first became aware (or should have reasonably become aware) that they had cause to complain.

 

As above, you’ve complained that you believe your DTA was mis-sold because there was no legal requirement for you to have to have this plan for your mortgage and neither should the bank have made this plan compulsory.

 

The concerns that you have raised above about your DTA were known to you at the time you took it out and therefore you ought to have reasonably been aware that you had cause for complaint at that time.

 

If you were unhappy with any of the conditions attached to your mortgage, then you were free not accept the bank’s offer and to seek to get the mortgage you wanted with a different lender.

 

Therefore, at that time, you had sufficient knowledge and opportunity to raise your concerns, which you have done so recently.

 

Based on the information I have available; I am not aware of any exceptional circumstances which may have prevented you from raising a complaint sooner. In the circumstances, I believe that our Regulator’s DISP rules apply to the concerns raised regarding your plan. I therefore, am unable to consider your complaint further as, in my view; these concerns should have been raised no later than xxxxxxx 2009, which is six years after you took your plan out. However, if you have exceptional circumstances then please let me know.

 

What can you do next? If you think that I have misunderstood anything about your complaint, or you would just find it helpful to talk through my findings, please call me on the free phone number shown at the bottom of this letter. I am happy to discuss your case with you. You may also have some paperwork which, having read my letter, you think could affect my decision. If so, please send it to me or call me to discuss this.

 

If you are unhappy with my decision, you have the right to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS), free of charge. The services they offer are set out in the *Financial Ombudsman Service leaflet.

 

The Ombudsman might not be able to consider your complaint if:

 

• What you’re complaining about happened more than six years ago; and

• You’re complaining more than three years after you realised (or should have realised) that there was a problem.

 

The bank believes that your complaint was made outside of these time limits, but this is a matter for the Ombudsman to decide. If the Ombudsman agrees with us, they will not have our permission to consider your complaint and so will only do so in very limited circumstances (see below).

 

If you do decide to refer your complaint to the Ombudsman, you must do so within six months of the date of this letter. If you do not refer your complaint to the Ombudsman within six months of the date of this letter, the Ombudsman will not have our permission to consider your complaint and so will only be able to do so in very limited circumstances. The very limited circumstances referred to above include, where the Ombudsman believes that the delay was as a result of exceptional circumstances.

[NGEddie]

Can an admin please edit the date out of this?

[Andyorch]

Done

[NGEddie]

sorry it is also six paragraphs along, the year is probably fine to leave, just not full date, thanks!

[dx100uk]

why have RBS refunded all the other stuff if thats in the same boat ...outside of 6yrs????

 

i believe you also said earlier that this is now paid to aviva? so ....its still active

 

timing runs from when you became aware you could reclaim...its obv you didnt know this in 2003when it was sold to you , nor until very recently.