Lowell/BW legal claimform - old o2 mobile 'debt'

[Multay]

One thing im curious about. They say the early termination fee is based on a 24 month contract but then say they don't need to supply a copy of it, but that I'm bound by the terms and conditions... how does that work?

[Andyorch]

Thanks for that... it's hard when it's so uneven. The directions were clear. Submitted by the 22nd or the case is struck out. Yet, they can still get away with sending in whenever they feel like it...

 

Oh and BTW they haven't got away with anything..that also will go in the skeleton argument.

[Multay]

The court date is the 19th. I might be able to post the details tomorrow I think.

[Multay]

Oh and BTW they haven't got away with anything..that also will go in the skeleton argument.

Thanks Andy...

[Andyorch]

One thing im curious about. They say the early termination fee is based on a 24 month contract but then say they don't need to supply a copy of it, but that I'm bound by the terms and conditions... how does that work?

 

Then they will have to prove that there is a 24 month contract:wink:

[dx100uk]

urm poc says regulated

ws says unregulated...which is it lowells!!

[Multay]

Oh yes... they sent me written confirmation that the poc are incorrect. They responded to my cca request saying so, which I referenced in my witness statement but they haven't mentioned in theirs...

[dx100uk]

ok sorry should have checked..

 

 

dx

[Multay]

No Problem DX - Thanks for looking at the thread!

 

 

Ok - So here is the evidence submitted by BW. I've taken out a lot of the substance of the bills. They have a screen shot of (I believe) Lowell's internal ERP system (I've no idea what that is supposed to prove), assignment letters from o2 and from Lowell and Terms and conditions printed off from o2's website in 2015.

 

 

Thanks in advance guys.

Lowell Exhibits.pdf

[Andyorch]

Nothing regarding the alleged term of contract...IE 24 months ?

[Multay]

No Nothing - I think they say that they do not need one in their witness statement. The fact I've had a bill from them and admit to having financial dealings in the past is enough.

 

 

Thanks. M

[fkofilee]

Yes but the onus is on them to prove that you outright owe this money. There are plenty of factors that dont seem quite up to par in the claim IMHO.

Like the CCA Regulated PHone Contract issue for example.

[Multay]

I'm no expert

but it seems to me there's lots not up to par..

. POC's are incorrect,

No agreement at all,

No Default notice which has to be important if they claim o2 terminated the contract,

massive charge for termination of contract,

no response to CPR 31.14 request

 

 

which prejudiced my ability to produce a reasonable defence and prevented any kind of mediation,

 

 

not filing witness statement (I checked with the court yesterday and they still haven't seen it)

even though the Directions specifically said to file by 22nd May or the case would be struck out.

 

They even have the nerve to say in the witness statement that there are parts where the onus of proof is on me!

 

I just have a sinking feeling that they have the edge as they are relying on the fact I have a had a contract with o2 and will harp on about that.

[Andyorch]

Plenty to consider then Multay..I think it may be wise to submit a supplemental witness statement in this instance considering the late service of the claimants evidence.

[Multay]

Hi, funnily enough I just got this text message from BW...

 

 

Dear Multay, this is a message from BW Legal, we have recently written to you regarding your account. Did you know you can make payments online blah blah blah..."

 

So, what do I need to do? The woman at the court said I could write to the court and ask the evidence be thrown out but the letter will only be taken into consideration on the day of the hearing.

 

Thanks so much for all of your help... M

 

I'm no expert

but it seems to me there's lots not up to par..

. POC's are incorrect,

No agreement at all,

No Default notice which has to be important if they claim o2 terminated the contract,

massive charge for termination of contract,

no response to CPR 31.14 request

 

 

which prejudiced my ability to produce a reasonable defence and prevented any kind of mediation,

 

 

not filing witness statement (I checked with the court yesterday and they still haven't seen it)

even though the Directions specifically said to file by 22nd May or the case would be struck out.

 

They even have the nerve to say in the witness statement that there are parts where the onus of proof is on me!

 

I just have a sinking feeling that they have the edge as they are relying on the fact I have a had a contract with o2 and will harp on about that.

 

 

And they also do not reference in their witness statement that the POC are incorrect.

[fkofilee]

Also Remember something else, while it may not apply in this circumstance ( I could be wrong) BW Legal made a mention of T&Cs that you were bound to - But these kept changing.

I understand that under any agreement, you must be informed of any changes to your agreements / T&Cs that they provide (Providing you are still a customer of course)

 

I remember seeing something in your case that shows that they admitted they knew the T&Cs may change and the charges may have fluctuated over time (Entry 14 in your scan) but nevertheless they are payable.

Then how can BW Legal be certain that this is the correct amount outstanding?

 

I maybe wrong and please tell me if i am but Gorgonzola cheese has less holes then this claim...

[Multay]

So Guys, given that I'm in court on the 19th. what do you think I should do now (if anything). There was mention of preparing a skeleton argument and possibly a supplemental witness statement but in all honesty, I'm a bit out of my depth now.

 

I (wrongly) thought that once they didn't file on time that would be that and that it was unlikely they had any documentation at all, but they do and from what the court said, the judge will likely allow their evidence.

 

I'm not really sure what to argue now other than the POC being wrong and BW failing to follow directions and CPR.

 

Thanks again for all of your help.

 

Hi everyone... can you help at all? I know you guys are busy but I'm running out of time and have no idea what to do next to be honest... I can't really see how they will lose this one...

[Multay]

Anyone???

[Multay]

Hi,

 

From what is said above it looks like I need to put together a skeleton argument and possibly a supplemental witness statement. Is there anyone who can help me with this? Court date is 19th and as things stand, I've a funny feeling ill lose. I'm not sure now if I should just settle with them and have done with it. I don't want to but I don't now know how to counter their arguments.

[Multay]

Hi,

 

So I've had a go at a skeleton argument. I'm not sure it will hold much water but here it is.....

 

Claim number:

 

ABC (Claimant)

v

XYZ (Defendant)

 

In the xxxxxxxxxxxxxx county court

 

on 26th September 2016

 

SKELETON ARGUMENT

 

As the defendant in this case, wish to respectfully make the following points in my defence.

 

1. The Claimant has been extremely vague and somewhat confusing when outlining the basis of their claim.

Their Particulars of Claim refers to 'a mobile telecoms agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974', whereas their Witness Statement claims

“the balance of monies due against an unregulated telecommunications agreement”.

 

 

This being the case, I respectfully refer the Court to CPR 16.4 (1a) -

"(1) Particulars of claim must include -

(a) a concise statement of the facts on which the claimant relies."

The Claimant has clearly not complied with this rule.

 

2. In their Witness Statement, the Claimant refers to an agreement taken out by the defendant on 16th. November 2012 as a “O2 Unlimited 24 Month 8GB 4G Tariff”. The claimant is put to strict proof thereof.

 

3. In their Witness Statement, the Claimant refers to an agreement taken out by the defendant on 16th. November 2012 as a “O2 Unlimited 24 Month 8GB 4G Tariff.

At the time of the alleged default the defendant’s obligations under this agreement would have been discharged.

 

4. In their Witness Statement, the Claimant refers to an agreement taken out by the defendant on 16th. November 2012 as a “O2 Unlimited 24 Month 8GB 4G Tariff” the termination of which resulted in an early cancellation fee of £537.28. The claimant is unable to produce evidence of any such agreement.

 

5. The claimant states “the claimant believes the defendant will have nevertheless been charged Fees in accordance with these terms and conditions” The claimant is put to strict proof thereof.

 

6. The claimant failed to comply with my information request under CPR 31.14 prejudicing my ability form a suitable defence.

 

They claim they don't need and agreement or that they need to produce a default notice...

I've no idea if this is the case but given they say I took out a 24 month contract in 2012

how can they then claim for a early cancellation fee based on a default at the end of 2015 without producing an agreement with a date within 24 months of the default?

 

Sadly they did enter their witness statement in time - It was exactly 14 days before we go to court.

 

Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks M

[fkofilee]

Good attempt - One of the team will be along shortly and advise.

[Multay]

Well, I need to be sending this tomorrow as I'm out of the country until Friday of next week so I guess I'll have to just chance it.

 

Thanks.

[Multay]

Not a single person can look at this????

 

I only have until the 19th. I need to send this today really or I won't be able to get it to the court at all.

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I've flagged your thread for site team attention to see if someone can help.

 

HB

[Multay]

Hello there.

 

I've flagged your thread for site team attention to see if someone can help.

 

HB

Thank you.