PCN from Smart Parking "over free time", advice please**CANCELLED**

[Rover6699]

Hello,

 

I received a PCN from smart parking on 12/12/16 which states that I allegedly breached the t&c's within the shopping park. Contravention = "over free time".

 

I have read through other similar threads and am planning to reply with the following:

 

xxyyy is not compliant with the POFA so no keeper liability has been created.

Do not contact me again or a complaint of harassment as both a criminal act and a civil tort will be made"...

 

as helpfully posted in one of the threads I came across.

 

Just want to know if this is the best thing for me to do please with my own situation?

 

Thanks in advance

[dx100uk]

i'd not be sending that 2 liner no.

 

 

can you fill this out please

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket

[silverfox1961]

Hi and welcome to CAG

 

At last, a poster that reads other threads before posting their own (just kidding)

 

As there are so many different scenarios, one parking event may not be the same as another.

By filling out the form that DX has linked to will give us some idea of where to go from there.

 

As (not so) Smart Parking are members of the BPA, you can use any reason you like as what you want is the POPLA code. Once it gets to POPLA then you can use other grounds for appealing.

 

Did you spend a lot on that date? do you have proof? How long was the overstay?

 

As far as I can tell SP have taken no cases to court this year.

[Oddfellow]

Is it a PCN or a Notice to Keeper? If it ISN'T the latter, you cannot quote POFA at them until you get the NTK.

[ericsbrother]

date of event, place you parked and sight of the correspondence you have so far will be helpful. Smart dont usually use the correct wording for POFA keeper liability but there agin they normally get other things so badly wrong it is not necessary to mention that at an appeal to them.

[Rover6699]

Hi all, sorry I was having problems earlier uploading the parking ticket document I completed.

 

Here are my answers:

 

1 Date of the infringement

02/12/2016

 

2 Date on the NTK

08/12/2016

 

3 Date received

12/12/2016

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012?

No

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event?

They have included 2 photographs of my number plate with times below of when I entered the site and when I exited the site.

 

6 Have you appealed?

No

 

Have you had a response?

N/A

 

7 Who is the parking company?

Smart Parking Ltd

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS. If you are unsure, please check here

IAS (POPLA)

 

 

@Silverfox1961: I don't think I spent more than £50, still have my receipts. Not sure if this is of any relevance but in one of the shops I visited, I had to wait around for a shop assistant to contact local stores for a product I needed. This took a big chunk of time as they had to wait for the stores to answer the phone and then complete the product check.

The overstay was 27 mins 10 seconds!

 

@Oddfellow: it is a parking charge notice. When can I expect to receive the notice to keeper?

 

@ericsbrother: I will try and upload the letter I received (anonymised of course).

 

Thanks

[Rover6699]

PCN letter attached

PDF Photos 16-12-2016.pdf

[Rover6699]

Any advice as to how I should proceed please? Should I appeal? Just read a sticky which said ignoring the PCN is not a good idea.

[dx100uk]

you await the notice to keeper letter

what you have there is just the PCN in relation to an ANPR capture

 

 

as this is an ANPR camera capture

and you didn't get a ticket on your windscreen

then it[the NTK] must arrive between 29-56 of the date of the 'offence'

 

 

go read other smart parking threads

[Rover6699]

Ok thanks

[Rover6699]

Hi all,

 

Thank you for the advice you have given me to date.

 

Right, i've read though the smart Parking threads and I have a few questions:

 

The PCN I have been sent states "Smart Parking Ltd are able to request registered keeper details from the DVLA, under the reasonable criteria of recovery of private parking charges. DVLA have confirmed that you are the registered keeper of this vehicle".

 

- Does this mean the letter I have been sent is a NTK?

 

It seems that quite a few people had their PCNs cancelled after appealing to (tempted to insert a particular descriptive word here.. but won't) Smart Parking stating that they (as registered keeper) did not know who the driver of the vehicle was. I admit that a lot of these related to Asda car parks.

 

- I''m wondering whether I should attempt the same and appeal on these grounds?

 

 

I'll be honest and say that I do not have the confidence or funds to take on Smart Parking... especially not to the point of going to court. There is a small part of me that is thinkjng it would probably be easier to pay the £40 and be done with it (seeing as I did actually over stay).

 

My understanding is that the PoFA may be able to offer me some protection but after reading through it I wasn't able to identify anything that Smart Parking have not complied with so far. This is probably due to my naivety I realise.

 

Is the fact that they haven't actually encountered any loss, as a result of me overstaying, worth including in a appeal?

 

I am very aware that the time allocated to appeal is passing by so would be very grateful if you could advise me on my options.

 

Many thanks

[dx100uk]

Have you received the ntk yet?

If not nothing to do

 

Certainly not pay them

 

And def don't be a scared cat about the remote poss of court

They never turn up anyway

[ericsbrother]

your letter is the NTK,

they didnt slap a ticket on your car.

 

 

We need to see the full wording of the NTK and a copy of the signage at the site.

 

 

You have a couple of weeks to do this,

you dont need to worry about the result too much about what they say either,

they ahve to let you appeal to POPLA if they reject your appeal to them.

[Rover6699]

I'm not sure? The letter does not say notice to keeper at the top but in the body of the letter it mentions that they are writing to me as registered keeper.

[Rover6699]

Thanks for clearing that up Eric's brother.

Are you able to see the PDF of the letter I posted previously?

[ericsbrother]

It doesnt mention it

requirement to get the wording right under the POFA

or they cant claim anything from the keeper

but they havent got it right

but you will still need to appeal

but word it carefully so you do not identify the driver at the time.

 

 

It is till better to find fault with teh signage as that is more telling to a judge who knows everything about commercial contract law and sod all about the POFA so play to your strengths.

[Rover6699]

Ok. By "it" i''m assuming you mean the letter doesn't mention Smart Parking's requirement to get the wording right?

 

So does the fact that they have omitted this information mean that they have got the wording wrong or is there something else that they haven't got right that you're referring to?

 

I have taken 2 screenshots of the signage showing on google maps (one sign at the entrance & the other is inside the car park)

 

 

but will have to go back to the shopping park to get a snap of the small print.

 

 

Any fault with the signage that you can see?

 

Also does it matter that the NTK arrived before, day 29-56 of the date of the "contravention"

signage PDF Photos 16-12-2016.pdf

[ericsbrother]

you have to read up on this and make yourself aware of what law is being use to pursue you and what protections you can rely on.

 

 

The 29-56 days relates to a screen ticket not ANPR capture which is the case here.

The time limit is 14 days and they were in time.

 

 

Now read para 9 of the POFA 2012 and you will see the detail and in places the exact wording the NTK must contain and then you will see why I say they got it wrong.

 

You will need picture of the signs, the google ones are illegible and may well be out of date so get onto it.

 

when you are doing that measure the height of the letters used in the signs as well. make a note of all of the different font sizes and tell us what they are

Edited December 17, 2016 by honeybee13

[Rover6699]

Thanks, will do.

 

Do you mean approx heights & font sizes?

[fevr]

Hi Rover6699,

 

I'm actally in a similar situation to you with this car park at the moment. Can I ask what day you parked on, was it what they call a match day?

 

If this is what they call a match day, I have a way of you going above Smart Parking and have the PCN cancelled.

 

I'm having some fun with them at the moment as they won't check my claim and they've still sent me another letter. Exactly what Ericsbrother and Silverfox said. I will post this up when I get to my computer.

 

They certainly won't win against me.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?471667-Smart-Parking-Greenwich-shopping-park-Charlton-Overstaying-or-Not!

[Rover6699]

Hi fevr,

 

Thanks for your message. I did come across your thread actually.

 

I parked on the 02/12/16 which was a Friday. I'm not sure of this was a match day. Like yours my letter doesn't actually say how long I overstayed for. I didn't even realise there was a time limit in this car park.

 

What's happening with your situation now?

 

Here are my photographs of the signs in the car park,

taken today:

 

How long do I have to appeal?

 

 

Can someone help me with the wording please?

PDF Photos 16-12-2018 signs.pdf

[silverfox1961]

Did I just see a disabled parking clock? There are guidelines Smart should be following regarding disabled drivers

[Rover6699]

Hi Silverfox1961,

 

No it's not a disabled parking clock.

[Rover6699]

Anyone able to help me with my appeal letter please?

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

Can you post up what you've written so far please?

 

HB