@edfenergycs 9 year electric meter/billing dispute with EDF

[Kid_Carbon]

Short history of a long story:

 

June 1993: Move in to rented property.

 

June 2005: Erratic readings on electric meter

 

July 2005: Supplier replaces meter.

 

Oct 2005: Electricity consumption falls to 50% I ask for old meter test results. Supplier did not test the meter but say the meter was working correctly.

 

I stop paying bill.

 

Feb 2006: Go to court. Warrant of entry REFUSED

 

April 2006: Supplier test the NEW meter and it passes with flying colours.

 

June 2006: Contact Energy Watch. Lots of letters...

 

July 2007: Energy Watch write to say that they have given up on trying to communicate with the energy supplier and Energy Watch are being closed down.

 

July 2007: The new Energy Ombudsman says they can't take on case as it pre dates their creation.

 

Aug 2007: Energy supplier offer £1,000 for a possible estimated of overcharging 47,000 Kw over 12 years. I say make a better offer or supply a deadlock letter (which Energy Ombudsman now says they will accept)

 

2007 - 2014: The supplier makes three (3) more applications for a Warrant over the years. But the supplier withdraws each application at the court.

 

Oct 2014: Supplier made the last application (the 3rd) for a warrant but withdrew it at the court.

 

April 2015: Current bill £1,800.

 

Supplier says they are instructing debt collectors.

 

Supplier says they will fit a prepaid (The supply has written to say the property is unsuitable for a prepaid meter )

 

I have a full communication record in writing and it weighs in at over 3kg of paperwork.

 

I can pay the bill or put £2,000 in escrow if that helps.

 

The supplier is one of the big six.

 

Electricity and Gas Acts say:

It's is a criminal offence to remove a meter without the agreement of the customer or the approval of a meter tester or a warrant.

A supplier may not use a warrant where there is a genuine billing dispute.

 

 

The meter is in a communal hall so I can't defend it. (they appear to have tried and failed to gain entry without a warrant in late 2007)

 

Suggestions welcome for my next course of action.

 

Apply for a court Injunction?

 

Contact The Secretary of State?

 

Contact one one of them TV shows?

 

Counter claim for between 12,000 - 47,000 Kw of electricity? I have not sent a demand for the electricity I have paid for but not received.

 

 

 

 

[BankFodder]

Who is the supplier? or are you trying to protect them?

[Kid_Carbon]

The law and regulations are supposed to be blind and any options or suggestions should be valid for any supplier so I just didn't bother naming them.

 

But if it's helpful or useful or just people are just curious to know which of the big six it is then I'm happy to name names.

[dx100uk]

it would help.

[BankFodder]

Yes. It would be helpful if you would name them.

 

It would be helpful to other people who have similar problems with the same company as they might then also be encouraged to come here and tell their story and to support you and also to feel supported by the fact that you might take some action.

 

It would be helpful because we would be able to understand even more who the real rogues are in our big six energy suppliers.

 

It would be helpful because we might more likely be able to suggest action based on what we know about the kinds of responses and interest or lack of interest that will be shown by the company.

 

It would be helpful to you because your thread is likely to attract a lot more interest if we all knew who it was we were taking action against. There are so many problems with all of the energy suppliers that it is stretching the resources of our community. People will feel more inclined to help you take action against unknown adversary than merely providing advice in principle.

 

It would be helpful because the companies who have their poor practice exposed here would rather not be named – and if they would rather not be named that it is always better to name them.

 

But as you prefer not to name them, it seems they are already winning the first round.

 

Maybe this is the kind of reason why you have already had to endure nine years from them without having any resolution to your problem

[Kid_Carbon]

Energy de France is the corporation in question. In the UK they trade as EDF.

 

I write to Vincent de Rivaz the Chief Executive at EDF's head office at 40 Grosvenor Place, London. SW1X 7EN.

 

 

I occasionally drop letters off by hand as there is a bus from home to there.

 

 

I also on occasion write to Steve Hayfield. EDF's Customer Services Director.

[BankFodder]

Thank you.

 

EDF are not one of the main offenders – or at least they're not on this forum anyway.

 

Like most of these disputes, I would start off by sending an SAR to EDF.

 

I would also try to find out who holds all the files of Energy Watch and do an SAR on those as well.

 

It may well be the ombudsman.

 

I would also send an SAR to the ombudsman if the ombudsman is not holding the energy watch files.

 

Also, are you not paying any bills now? As you appear to agree that you do owe them something, I would start to show goodwill and start making regular payments maybe from the present bills to make sure that the alleged debt doesn't get any larger. Then you have a more controllable and defined issue to deal with. It will also be a lot easier to prevent them issuing warrants and so forth because you will be able to say that there is a genuine dispute on a particular amount but there is no other problem and that you are making current payments.

 

I think it might be important to isolate the debt.

 

Once you have sent SAR's et cetera then you should come back here

[Kid_Carbon]

I did a SAR to EDF back in 2007. Along with all the papers I still have the cheque they sent back with the apology for taking well over 40 days.

 

I have all the Energywatch correspondence along with the letter that says "As I have been unable to reach a satisfactory conclusion with your supplier, ..." Try the Energy Ombudsman.

 

The Energy Ombudsman said your is outside our time catchment. This was back in 2007.

 

Am I paying anything to show good will. Do I think I own them some money? Isolate the debt?

I have paid token amounts from time to time and the company has knocked off a few hundred pounds here and there.

I would argue that I have been charge for 47,000 kw of electricity that was never supplied, that's £6,600 at today's electricity prices.

Being able to pay the invoice is not an issue and can place 2K in a special account.

 

When the supplier, at that time it was London Energy, changed the meter I had been at the property for 12 years. The replacement meter recorded only half (50%) the usage of the previous meter. The supplier even came and tested the replacement meter to make sure the replace meter was not faulty. I have since managed to reduce my consumption by another 15-20%. (last quarter usage was £70 inc vat)

 

I've just got out my last bill and while checking it (£1,964.48) I've been STUNNED. I had not noticed on page two "We cancelled your electricity charges from 29 Oct 2014 to 5 Feb 2015" and they show a credit of £134.91. Why is EDF giving me money by dishing out credit with no explanation???

 

This is a worry.

 

The supplier is so disorganised/automated that it is quite possible that a engineer could be sent round to install a pre-paid meter in error. I have had engineers turn up without warning/appointment to survey prior to installing a pre-paid meter. Surprisingly after the visit EDF did write to me saying the the meter location is not suitable for a pre paid meter.

 

Remember the Ombudsman has already said back in 2007 they don't have a remit to deal with my situation.

 

Thank you everyone very much for your interest and time.

 

Can Consumer Action Group deal with bitcoin donations?

Edited May 15, 2015 by Kid_Carbon

[BankFodder]

Reading back over this thread, I think that I'm getting quite confused.

 

I thought that it was simply a question of disputed energy usage and that you were withholding payment and they were chasing you for money.

 

Now I understand that you have actually been paying them and you think that you have been paying them too much.

 

Maybe other people will read this and have a better understanding – but at the moment, although I know that there are issues, I can't understand exactly what they are.

 

Maybe I just can't see the wood for the trees.

 

Are you able to spell out in a simple fashion, what it is they want and what it is you want.

 

Also I notice that the last SAR you sent was in 2007. You should properly send another one now.

 

Also at some point you mentioned that the previous regulator said that he had difficulty communicating with EDF. Could you tell us a bit more about this. I would have thought that EDF have a duty to cooperate in any enquiry.

 

Also, surely some of all this alleged indebtedness must be statute barred?

 

As far as accepting bitcoins, I suppose that we would accept anything which we could eventually used to pay our bills but it's rather early to start thinking of making donations – although it is very kind of you to mention it.

 

I think we are better off waiting to see whether we can actually help you and where we can get to on this before you start considering whether you still have that warm glow of generosity towards us.

[Kid_Carbon]

You asked: "what it is they want and what it is you want."

What EDF wants is for me to agree that despite the meter being changed because it was faulty there was nothing wrong with it.

 

What I want is for EDF to agree to negotiate some form of refund for the old meters errors and compensation for their harassment.

(The meter over charging could be as much a £6,600.)

 

You asked: "the previous regulator said that he had difficulty communicating with EDF."

Issues where:

EDF not answering the regulators questions and telling the regulator that the issue has been successfully resolved with me when it had not.

I'll look and see what the paperwork says although I did speak with the regulator quite a bit by phone at that time.

 

EDF's last couple of letters is an example of their communication style.

EDF writes and says that a complaint has been raised on my behalf!

 

 

I write back requesting a copy of the complaint EDF have raised with EDF on my behalf and the response is

"I can confirm a complaint has been raised on your behalf".

So I'll need to do a SAR to find out what EDF have complained to EDF about on my behalf.

 

Even if CAG do nothing else to assist me I feel a debt of honour to assist CAG. I'll get some bitcoin to you.

[BankFodder]

We have quite a few situations on this forum where people have claimed that meters were faulty and they are then replaced by the supplier.

 

What generally tends to happen is that the customer suggest that there is a faulty meter and eventually manages to persuade the supplier to come along and to change the it.

 

The meter is changed. It may well be then that subsequent energy usage falls more in line with the customers expectations. However, the single piece of evidence that they really need – the faulty meter has gone.

 

The supplier then goes into denial and simply says that there was nothing wrong with the meter and that the bill stands.

 

I'm afraid that you may be in the same situation. It seems to me that when people claim that the meter is faulty then they need to get them examined by some independent party – preferably somebody that they instruct themselves to carry out various tests.

 

Most people who claim the meter is the faulty do nothing to test it, take no photographs, make no record of the serial number .

 

All they are left with is circumstantial evidence and there is very little to go on.

 

I'm afraid that this is all in line with the experience that you have had so far

 

Another feature of energy suppliers is that they don't like disclosing information and so you are quite right, you will have to see what an SAR reveals.

 

You need to check very carefully when you receive the SAR to make sure that it is complete. You need to cross-reference and try to identify items are missing. Of course, you may not get the SAR at all.

 

The most important piece of information of course is the supplier's own test results from the allegedly faulty meter.

 

I think it is very telling that they are unable to provide any test results and they simply say that it was working perfectly.

 

It is only very much the bones of a claim but I think that there might be some mileage in asking the court to accept the evidence that the electricity usage fell dramatically immediately after the meter was placed – and that EDF either failed to test the meter, or else they did test the meter and they are unwilling to release the results.

 

It is ridiculous if they failed to test the meter it seems to me that there was a duty upon them to test it.

 

I understand that you have paid EDF a substantial amount of money and that they feel there is still more owing. Is this correct?

 

If EDF are trying to claim money from 2005 then I would say that it is time-barred and they will not be able to recover it.

 

If you are trying to reclaim money from EDF then you would be seeking the return of money paid under a mistake.

 

In the circumstances the limitation runs from the time that you became aware of the mistake. This might also put you out of time. It is conceivable that both you and EDF my agree to waive the limitation period so that you could then sue them and they could counterclaim.

 

I'm also interested in their failed attempt to enter your property. Can you tell us more about this? It smacks of trespass – and trespass smacks of compensation to me

[Kid_Carbon]

The faulty meter was L82A-48956 the replacement meter is S74A-38429

 

The supplier is unable to supply a test certificate for L82A-48956

 

The magistrates court accepted the evidence I presented that the electricity consumption had dropped by 50% when EDF made their first application for a warrant of entry and that warrant was denied.

 

I have paid EDF just over £1,000 over time. EDF is currently billing me for £1,964. My counter claim against EDF them would be £6,600.

 

RE: "the failed attempt to enter your property". Outside the front door I came across a piece of paper on which hand written notes which convinced me that EDF had visited. I immediately went to Horseferry Magistrates Court and paid £5, I have a receipt, for the court to make a search to see if a warrant had been applied for. There had been no application. (The court phoned EDF and asked them!)

 

The last letter from EDF says they have instructed a debt collection agency.

I will make another SAR.

I shall ask again for the test certificate for meter L82A-48956.

[BankFodder]

It sounds as if you have been very careful.

 

It will be interesting to see the SAR. Also, I wonder who they instructed to remove the meter - because they don't do this kind of thing themselves.

 

Can you explain the figure £6,600 please

[Kid_Carbon]

The £6,600

I was in the property 12 years before the meter fault was discovered.

The meter reading dropped by 50% when the meter was changed

Therefore: Total kilowatts used over 12 years, multiplied by 50%, multiplied by electricity cost per kilowatt today = £6,600

 

I'll send of the SAR and enclose a photocopy of the un-cashed cheque the apology EDF sent me last time EDF failed to comply.

[BankFodder]

I think that you should simply send the SAR. Don't complicate it or but them on enquiry

[Kid_Carbon]

I don't intend to complicate the SAR.

 

I need to respond to Jess Hutchings on the Executive Lieison team.

 

 

From the tone of his/her letters they hold customers in very low regard and is quite capable of sending an engineer round to change the meter without a warrant of entry.

 

 

If someone in the block innocently (or is intimidated into) letting them in my position is very much weakened.

 

Any suggestions?

 

Complain to the court about all the warrants of entry applied for and withdraw at the court?

 

Some sort of injunction against EDF?

 

A removal of implied rights of access or something?

 

Big note on the meter warning any engineer of not having a warrant?

[ericsbrother]

you can have your own meter installed as long as it is done by a correctly qualified electrician and you pass on the meter number etc to the relevant transport or supply company. It is very difficult to get information about this as all of the electricty supply companies needless to say dont want you making their lives difficult. This means that you could have the prepayment meter removed but they then tend to get arsey and cut you off unlawfully and that can give you bigger headaches getting a court order to reverse their action.

[BankFodder]

Why do you have to reply?

What was the last communication?

I would just send the SAR. Actually, I had thought that you had already sent it after we suggested it on the 15th May