Asda 2-man tent in 4-man tent packaging

[DeniseTremble]

About 3 weeks ago, I bought with my debit card a tent (£40) from Asda

– the package described it as a 4-man tent, and stated dimensions of 240x210cm.

Went away at the weekend and erected the thing for use, and found it was not the product described on the packaging.

It was the two-man tent variant from the same product range – dimensions about 200 x150cm. Maybe someone had done a packaging-swap on the supermarket shelves and I was left with the consequences of that offence.

I don’t have a receipt – though obviously Asda’s computer system contains a record of the transaction against my debit card number.  

Took it back this morning to customer services, and my complaint was escalated to the manager  - summary as follows

• Manager: That’s  a four-man tent
• Me: No it isn’t, the dimensions are far smaller than the ones on the package get it out and measure it.
• Manager: (Declining to measure) You need to complain to the manufacturer (Ozark Trail).
• Me: No I don’t – my transaction was with Asada
• Manager: You could have swapped the packaging on the shelf
• Me: That would be criminality - requiring proof which you don’t have
• Manager (walking away) that’s a four-man tent
• Me: OK, I’ll take advice and come back    

What do I do next?

 

 

[BankFodder]

Put in writing immediately. Include photographs. Address it to Argos head office and also to the branch from which you purchased it.

Make sure that you include the dimensions of the tent that you bought against the one that should have been supplied.

Tell them that you are making a complaint. Don't give any deadlines but let us know what happens after seven days.

In the meantime, contact your bank and try and make a chargeback. They won't be happy – and let us know what they say. If it is not possible to do the chargeback then after you have sent the letter of complaint, we will probably advise you to begin a tactical claim and we will help you.

What is the value of the tent which you thought you had purchased? Is it still available at the same price or has it gone up.

And as a general piece of advice – never ever buy new equipment and take it into the field without giving it a little test first – but you probably realise that now.

[Nicky Boy]

Think you mean Asda, rather than Argos BF

[DeniseTremble]

Many thanks for the prompt and very helpful advice…

…after reading it I did the following:

Removed the tent from packaging, laid it out, then measured and took photographs:

• Dimensions described 240x210cm
• Dimensions of supplied product 140x190cm

Reviewed my purchase history (a rarely spend more than £40 at the supermarket) and tracked down the details of the transaction (June 25^th)

Reviewed Asda’s returns policy here – stating amongst other things that “Faulty or misdescribed products must be returned within 1 year of purchase”

Printed out a sheet summarising these matters, and went back to the store, spoke again to the same manager.

This time he was much less brusque, fully acknowledging that the package contained the wrong goods, but whingeing a lot about the fraudulent returns problem at his store.

I noted that the burden of proof was on Asda, not me, to prove any fraud, and that I was claiming a refund in full compliance with the returns policy. He still declined to authorise any refund, and I commented that I would be taking the matter to head office complaints. He had a nametag “Chris” but declined to identify himself further.

So I guess I’ll do that – and will update here when I get a response. Best regards and thanks

Hmmm – 

I search the Asda website looking for their complaints procedure. it boils down to a bunch of menu options, none of which are applicable - I ring the in-store experience number and speak to a CS rep.

After 10 mins on hold he advises me that I need to take up the matter with the store manager – I point out that the store manager refused to comply with policy. CS rep says “sorry, if the goods had been in resaleable condition we would authorise a refund”. This weekend I had the choice between using the product, making it no longer resaleable, or sleeping in the rain.

Told CS I wanted to escalate the matter within head office, and after some resistance was given a Leeds address (I worked there as an IT consultant for a few months 25 years ago).

Won't be making any further purchases from that store (a place where I've spent £10s of thousands over the last 20 years) until after this matter gets resolved.

[BankFodder]

You should understand that we aren't interested in any company's policies. They are all self-serving and have nothing to do with their legal obligations under the consumer rights act.

Have you sent the letter of complaint as I advised?

[Bazooka Boo]

And depending on who you bank with, you may be able to do the chargeback on line. 

TSB have this facility, and you can say that the item is not as described takes roughly 24 hrs for them to action it.

Once you have the chargeback, simply drop the tent back into the store you bought it from, obtaining the name of the CS advisor you handed it to, and walk away.

[DeniseTremble]

Letter sent to head office , will drop off a cc for the local store manager when I pass that way later.

Checked Monzo advice for chargeback - they have a process, but it requires that you first exercise the retailer's complaints procedure to its conclusion. 

Thanks a lot for the responses, I feel a whole lot less powerless than I did this morning, will definitely update here when further significant developments occur.

 

 

[dx100uk]

you have - they have refused

go do the chargeback.

dx

 

[BankFodder]

Actually all the evidence is that you have exhausted their complaints process and that they will not comply.
I suggest you put in a complaint to your bank.

Meanwhile, don't expect your letter of complaint to have any particular effect. It is simply a first step.

Start drafting a letter of claim giving 14 days before a legal action. Post it here so that we can see.

Register with the MoneyClaim online County Court online system. Get to understand it a bit and get ready to start drafting your claim. Once again you should post a draft of your claim here before clicking it.

Don't imagine that this won't go to the County Court. You obviously dealing with people who take this personally rather than act in a businesslike manner.

Once they get the court papers then they will start to take notice of you.

[DeniseTremble]

Monzo advice on chargeback:

“Before we raise a chargeback for you, you need to:

• Contact the merchant in writing and request a refund

• Keep a log of your contact with the merchant

• Wait 14 days”

Not ideal - but I'm prepared to be patient to get the correct outcome. Every day that I don't get a refund, my business goes to other retailers, the competitors of Asda.

Thanks for the the MoneyClaim and County Court links, I will review / register.  Happy to take all necessary steps to obtain a refund, even if it sucks up a significant amount of my time - because I don't want them to get away with this breach of the Consumer Rights Act. 

Will  review next steps when I get or response, or in 14 days (reminder has been set) whichever is sooner.

 

 

[FTMDave]

I was a chargeback virgin until a couple of months ago but was successfully refunded after advice on this site.

My bank did its utter best to hide chargeback information so Monzo are already better.  I got the 14 day stuff as well.

Well done on sending the letter to the head office.  Once the 14 days are up you can go for chargeback. 

Incredibly my bank were fine and reversed the transaction immediately at that point.

There is no reason not to prepare for a court claim too, as BF says.  Belt & braces.  Maybe send a Letter of Claim after a week. 

 

[DeniseTremble]

OK - had a snoop around the links, and attempted to construct a Letter of Claim which I intend to send to Asda lagal, seven days after my complaint letter. Attached as RTF file (can be read by any word processor, even Wordpad).

Regarding Monzo chargeback I'm somewhat concerned that it seems to operate along the following lines "You tell us why you think you need a chargeback, we''ll go and ask the nice merchant if that's OK". Also unclear whether I should take steps to go down the formal legal route and the chargeback route in parallel - clearly I can't get redress from both.  

Anyway I feel like I'm making progress here, finding it quite instructive to understand matters relating to consumer rights, and I look forward to delivering a cc copy of my Letter of Claim to the arrogantly dismissive Asda manager who repeatedly refused to refund me.

Letter_of_Claim_Redacted.RTF

[FTMDave]

Your attitude is spot on.  In a sense it's "good" to be in legal dispute as in you'll read & learn so much and be able to defend yourself in future.

Yes, the arrogance of the manager is quite something and knocking the smile off his face will be fun.  I thought the excuse about it being the manufacturer's fault went out with the dinosaurs!

Up to you, but you could go down both the chargeback route and the Letter of Claim route in parallel, at least for a while, as in -

Day 7 after your complaint, send the Letter of Claim.

Day 14, go for chargeback, that may get you your money.

Day 21, if the bank have been useless, start the county court claim.

Your Letter of Claim needs to be headed "Letter of Claim".  I'd add in the first paragraph that the dimensions were of a two-person tent, just to knock it into their thick skulls.  I'd also change the ending to "will result in a county court claim being issued against you to recover the outstanding amount".

[DeniseTremble]

Thanks very much - LoC has been tweaked as per your suggestions

This is a great site and community - when I get my 40 quid back, I'll donate it to CAG as a thank you. This was never really about the money for me, even less so now. 

 

[BankFodder]

Any donation will be gratefully accepted – but keep some back for yourself.

We'll be very happy with a 10/30 split and in fact that would be very generous given the small amount of money that you are claiming.

You need to make the whole thing worthwhile.

[Nicky Boy]

10/30 split ??

 

Edit: DOH! just got it!

[DeniseTremble]

Just received this response from Asda (14 days after posting complaint letter, 7 days after posting LoC).  

Good afternoon <redacted>,

 My name is Teegan I work in the Executive Relations Team at Asda and I will be responding to your complaint directly.

 I am sorry to read about your experience with the Ozark trail tent purchased from our Hulme store, I can appreciate how distressing this must have been for you. I would like to assure you we do our upmost best to ensure we are supplying the best possible quality items to all our customers. I am sorry this was not your experience on this occasion.

 I would like to assure you I have raised this to our technical managers and buying team who will raise a thorough investigation , in aid of this investigation it would be beneficial if you could return the items back to ourselves at Asda Head Office, you can do this by posting directly to us, or returning via the store and we can ensure this is logged via our Product Quality Team.

 In the interim I would be more than happy to provide a refund in the form of an e-gift card for the mentioned item, or alternatively if you would prefer a monetary value, this can be obtained in store by providing your proof of purchase, please do let me know how you would like to proceed.

 I look forward to your response.

 Kind Regards

Teegan

Executive Relations Team

I don't have an actual receipt for the purchase (just date / time / debit card number) - so I guess that means the offer is for a £40 voucher. Feel slightly nonplussed by that - but it's an easy to path to redress , and I feel it would be belligerent to refuse the offer. Unless the expert commenters here feel I should proceed differently, I think I'll take the voucher and abandon the legal proceedings. 

Not inclined to shop at that store again (the local area is very well-supplied with alternatives) but I can easily make a one-off purchase of 40+ quid with the voucher - that won't affect my previously stated intention to donate the monetary equivalent refund to this website. I don't imagine for one moment imagine that I'd have manged to achieve this much without your generous and penetrating advice. 

All comments welcomed

  

 

 

[dx100uk]

bank statement will do.

 

dx

 

[BankFodder]

Would you prefer cash?

[DeniseTremble]

Would prefer cash, though it's not a strong preference. I can easily get a screenshot of my Monzo mobile app showing date / time / recipient / total transaction value that included the £40 for the tent. 

[BankFodder]

Stand by for a suggested response to the letter later on today that is okay with you

[BankFodder]

Quote

Dear Teegan

 

reference number XXX

Thank you for your email and your offer to reimburse me.

I would like to be reimbursed with cash. I'm not interested in having a voucher.

On the basis of what you have said, I shall be visitingto the Asda store at Hulme with the two-man tent which you sold me instead of the four-man tent which I purchased.
I don't have a receipt any more but I shall be arriving with a bank statement showing the sum paid for the purchase. I suggest that you call the store and warn them that I am coming and I don't expect any trouble.
For the avoidance of doubt, if there is any problem, then the timescale in my letter of claim is still running.

I notice that you are involving your technical staff in this matter. I'm afraid to say that this shows very clearly that you really don't understand the problem.

In all likelihood, the reason that the four-man tent box contained a two-man tent is that somebody entered the store and switched them over and pilfered the four-man tent.
However the real issue here is the way that your staff handled this.

Your manager at the Hulme store and without any evidence accused me of having carried out the theft and then of attempting to return for reimbursement for the cheaper product.
Your manager treated me in a brusque and offhand manner and simply walked off when I was trying to explain.
If your manager really believed this, then it was his clear duty to call the police.

Your manager then tried to refer me to the manufacturer rather than accept responsibility as the retailer as he should have done as a matter of good customer-facing practice as well as being a matter of Asda's contractual obligations

Of course I shouldn't have to tell you this and I certainly shouldn't have had to explain it to the manager who should be completely familiar with his responsibilities on behalf of Asda.
It seems that your staff development programme has fallen short – or else the manager didn't attend or didn't pay attention.

This clearly isn't a matter for your technical team. It is a matter for your HR Department which should have at the very least a quiet word with your manager to explain to him his responsibilities in relation to customer complaints and how the matter should have been handled with subtlety and with the reputation of Asda in mind.

I only discovered that you had not supplied me with the four-man tent which you led me to believe I was purchasing when I went on a short holiday and tried to use it.
This caused a substantial disruption of my holiday and a waste of my own resources.

Since then, I have had to go through almost 6 weeks of corresponding with you and arguing the issue to the point where I had to threaten in a letter of claim to bring a small claim in the County Court.
You can be absolute certain that I would one this – although most likely you would have settled rather than have the issue decided at trial.

I am accepting your offer of reimbursement in cash – although this is an obligation on your part and not some gesture of goodwill.

If you want to go some way to making amends, you could also include the £40 eVoucher by way of an apology and compensation for my spoiled holiday and the time I have spent trying to force you to recognise good customer practice and also your contractual obligations. Let's not forget that your manager and the rest of your staff get paid for doing this. I have had to do it for free.

As I have suggested above, you should probably have a word with your HR team rather than your technical team and get them to interview your manager in order to make sure that he understands good customer practice and Asda values.

As I have said above, I shall be returning the tent to your Hulme Asda store on about XXX date.

Please let them know that I am coming.

Yours sincerely

 

 

[DeniseTremble]

Hi Bankfodder

Thanks for the text above, it summarises my thoughts rather well - feels almost like I've had my mind read... The only minor point with which I disagree is "almost 6 weeks of corresponding" which may have been a misunderstanding - my original in-person attempts to obtain a refund took place two weeks ago, Monday July 24th.

I summarised the same points in my own words, attached - thank you for your excellent guidance.

Obviously I'll post here again when the refund is received - thanks and best wishes

 

 

 

 

Email Response to Asda CS Offer of Refund.RTF

[Kyosanto]

Small correction:
I would one this → I would have won this

Otherwise this letter is pure rhetorical gold!

Edited August 9, 2023 by Kyosanto
(I don't normally flag petty typos, but this one made understanding the sentence difficult)

[FTMDave]

The letter is superb - take that Chris!