assualt by a delivery driver

[goodatresearch]

To be clear in cases of trespass although you can use reasonable force you cannot cause injury.

 

If your being attacked,, or fear being attacked, you are entitled to defend your self and off course this can cause injury but the reasonable test would still apply.

 

Where in this posters thread has she said he acted as if he was being attacked?

 

 

There is nothing in these posts to suggest she entered the van. Disprroportionate force to protect property is unlawful. There is also nothing in this post to suggest the driver thought he was being attacked. Your making it up as you go along.

 

In the example I used which is case law, the home owner didn't know the intruders intentions yet the force used was considered unreasonable.

 

Put it this way :

 

Judge to claimant - "why did you stand on the van step"

Answer -"to hand him the phone, I told him to speak to someone on the other end".

 

Judge to van driver - "Did she try to hand you the phone"

Answer - "no"

Judge - looks at phone call evidence log. " but that's not true is it"

Van driver - "erm"

Judge - "so why did you push her"

Van driver -"she was on my van" or "I thought she was trying to assault me".

Judge -"if she was on your van, why didnt ask her to leave"

Van driver - "erm"

Judge - "unreasonable force"

Van driver - "but she could have assaulted me"

Judge - "we have a phone log of her handing you the phone"

Van driver - "erm"

Van driver - "I didn't know pushing her would cause injury"

Judge - looked at medical evidence. Not relevant , injury was caused.

[p3t3r]

To be clear in cases of trespass although you can use reasonable force you cannot cause injury.

 

If your being attacked,, or fear being attacked, you are entitled to defend your self and off course this can cause injury but the reasonable test would still apply.

 

Where in this posters thread has she said he acted as if he was being attacked?

 

Nowhere in the posters thread has she said he acted as if he was being attacked, other than the fact that the van driver PUSHED her away.

 

The van driver could not be expected to know that the OP made an emergency 999 call in respect of a delivery that had gone wrong. Having someone open a van door, step onto a step and attempt to push something toward the driver would give imo rightful action to the driver in pushing her away.

 

Anyway, I am done with this thread. Otherwise we are just going to go round in circles. You have your opinion, other people have theirs. Correct advice has been given to OP, no need for further opinions

[goodatresearch]

Oh dear, a cynical person would believe dummy thrown out of pram.

 

I repeat, the force used was unreasonable for a case of trespass and therefore unlawful. You cannot cause any physical injury for trespass unless you think are being or are actually attacked. Any reasonable person would know that pushing someone from the step of a van could cause injury.

 

We can only go on the OPs version of events, and based upon this I find it difficult to believe that pushing someone off the step of a van was warrented when she only tried to give him a phone. Hardly an assault with a deadly weapon was it.

 

You dont really understand the law and as a consequence have contradicted yourself. You say that the posts doest say he thought he was being attacked then say it was OK for him to push her (and this caused physical injury). If he didn't think he was being attacked causing physical injury IS UNLAWFUL for a case of trespass.

 

You appear to be trying to undermind my opinion, but my opinion is based on my qualifications and relevant working experience. But hey thanks for insinuating my opinions have no value.

 

This is directed to the OP. See a solicitor who can set up after the event insurance. They will obtain medical evidence, copy of the police log etcetera and write to the Defendant. In all likelyhood they will settle out of court, won't want the bad publicity. I know you don't want to go after his company, but they are responsible for his actions. Remember also, you may be saving his next victim from injury.

 

 

 

 

Nowhere in the posters thread has she said he acted as if he was being attacked, other than the fact that the van driver PUSHED her away.

 

The van driver could not be expected to know that the OP made an em

 

ergency 999 call in respect of a delivery that had gone wrong. Having someone open a van door, step onto a step and attempt to push something toward the driver would give imo rightful action to the driver in pushing her away.

 

Anyway, I am done with this thread. Otherwise we are just going to go round in circles. You have your opinion, other people have theirs. Correct advice has been given to OP, no need for further opinions

[king12345]

This is a little story that comes to my wrongly wired mind:

Driver arrives at the property and tells the little woman that he can't deliver upstairs because of h&s.

The little woman goes mental and starts shouting and swearing at the driver.

Driver is in a rush because he needs to deliver other stuff, asks the enraged little woman if she would accept a kerbside delivery.

Little woman goes completely bananas and dials 999 (for a delivery???)

Driver gets going while being showered with abuse by the kind little woman.

Once in his van he gets a bang on the door and this little woman in his lap.

He pushes her away, shuts the door and goes away.

Broken ribs?

How do we know.

They don't take x-ray for suspected rib fracture because no cast is necessary.

Most likely a bruise.

I have seen little innocent women when they have an argument: They surely frighten me and I'm not easily impressionable.

Bare in mind, this is only a story that came up to my mind.

Of course it's very far from true events.

[p3t3r]

Oh dear, a cynical person would believe dummy thrown out of pram.

 

I repeat, the force used was unreasonable for a case of trespass and therefore unlawful. You cannot cause any physical injury for trespass unless you think are being or are actually attacked. Any reasonable person would know that pushing someone from the step of a van could cause injury.

 

We can only go on the OPs version of events, and based upon this I find it difficult to believe that pushing someone off the step of a van was warrented when she only tried to give him a phone. Hardly an assault with a deadly weapon was it.

 

You dont really understand the law and as a consequence have contradicted yourself. You say that the posts doest say he thought he was being attacked then say it was OK for him to push her (and this caused physical injury). If he didn't think he was being attacked causing physical injury IS UNLAWFUL for a case of trespass.

 

You appear to be trying to undermind my opinion, but my opinion is based on my qualifications and relevant working experience. But hey thanks for insinuating my opinions have no value.

 

This is directed to the OP. See a solicitor who can set up after the event insurance. They will obtain medical evidence, copy of the police log etcetera and write to the Defendant. In all likelyhood they will settle out of court, won't want the bad publicity. I know you don't want to go after his company, but they are responsible for his actions. Remember also, you may be saving his next victim from injury.

 

No, I am not throwing the dummy out of my pram as you declare. I am simply saying that it is pointless me continuing with this thread since the OP has been given correct advice, and our difference of opinion is just that. A difference.

 

Now you say I throw dummy out of my pram? Hmm.... OKAY! I notice how you spelt warranted as "war rented" earlier, you then changed it to warrented. Both spellings are wrong. It is warranted. I thought someone like yourself who qualified 16 years ago in law and who is practicing law would know how to spell a simple legal term as warranted. Certainly not "war rented" as you firstly typed before trying to correct it to warrented.

 

lol - maybe that is throwing my dummy out of my pram huh?

[goodatresearch]

Your little story is irrelevant to this case.

 

 

 

This is a little story that comes to my wrongly wired mind:

Driver arrives at the property and tells the little woman that he can't deliver upstairs because of h&s.

The little woman goes mental and starts shouting and swearing at the driver.

Driver is in a rush because he needs to deliver other stuff, asks the enraged little woman if she would accept a kerbside delivery.

Little woman goes completely bananas and dials 999 (for a delivery???)

Driver gets going while being showered with abuse by the kind little woman.

Once in his van he gets a bang on the door and this little woman in his lap.

He pushes her away, shuts the door and goes away.

Broken ribs?

How do we know.

They don't take x-ray for suspected rib fracture because no cast is necessary.

Most likely a bruise.

I have seen little innocent women when they have an argument: They surely frighten me and I'm not easily impressionable.

Bare in mind, this is only a story that came up to my mind.

Of course it's very far from true events.

[goodatresearch]

Extremely childish remarks. I was actually posting with one hand on a small tablet whilst cooking the dinner.

I was more bothered by substance not spelling. Oh dear, I've spelt "not" incorrectly, can't possiby be legally qualified. By the way, warranted in the context used, is not a legal term. Oh dear that's not what I meant, I meant more.

 

zPoster, just go and get legal advice. Perhaps one with a free hourly session. Oh dear, more spelling mistakes. I will go and burn my law qualifications.

 

Ogg course I'm making more mistakes on purpose than altering them. Oh dear done it again.

 

Going to stop now. Veg needs peeling.

 

No, I am not throwing the dummy out of my pram as you declare. I am simply saying that it is pointless me continuing with this thread since the OP has been given correct advice, and our difference of opinion is just that. A difference.

 

Now you say I throw dummy out of my pram? Hmm.... OKAY! I notice how you spelt warranted as "war rented" earlier, you then changed it to warrented. Both spellings are wrong. It is warranted. I thought someone like yourself who qualified 16 years ago in law and who is practicing law would know how to spell a simple legal term as warranted. Certainly not "war rented" as you firstly typed before trying to correct it to warrented.

 

lol - maybe that is throwing my dummy out of my pram huh?

[king12345]

Your little story is irrelevant to this case.

 

I know, but I thought I shared it with you anyway.

I'm in bed with a flu, so a bit bored.

[goodatresearch]

Its OK, you could always correct my spelling

 

Did make me laugh when you wrote "little lady in my lap". I don't want go into the picture I got in my mind, probably get banned. Probably because iv just had 2 glasses of wine and I have a dirty mind.

 

On a serious note, if she acts quickly a medical report would detail injury found following physical examination whch could be backed up by xray and/or MRI. The court will also look at the doctors report and the police log. Its not as cut and dried for the van driver as many believe.

QUOTE=king12345;4710864]I know, but I thought I shared it with you anyway.

I'm in bed with a flu, so a bit bored.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

This is a little story that comes to my wrongly wired mind:

Driver arrives at the property and tells the little woman that he can't deliver upstairs because of h&s.

The little woman goes mental and starts shouting and swearing at the driver.

Driver is in a rush because he needs to deliver other stuff, asks the enraged little woman if she would accept a kerbside delivery.

Little woman goes completely bananas and dials 999 (for a delivery???)

Driver gets going while being showered with abuse by the kind little woman.

Once in his van he gets a bang on the door and this little woman in his lap.

He pushes her away, shuts the door and goes away.

Broken ribs?

How do we know.

They don't take x-ray for suspected rib fracture because no cast is necessary.

Most likely a bruise.

I have seen little innocent women when they have an argument: They surely frighten me and I'm not easily impressionable.

Bare in mind, this is only a story that came up to my mind.

Of course it's very far from true events.

 

Yep, I prefer your story. Makes more sense.

 

Get well soon.

[goodatresearch]

OK just read it again:

- she said where the hell are you going, I'm calling the office.

- he responded by saying much worst and using the f word in front of a child

- his response was to knock her phone out of her hand because she was exercising her legal right to take pictures in a public place.

- she then called the police, sttod on the step of the van and tried to give him the phone

- he reacted by pushing her causing physical injury.

 

These are all the issues a good PI solicitor would emphasise backed up with medical evidence and police phone log.

 

Personally, I think she had a good case here. I doubt he would have done this if it wasn't a small women.

[fletch70]

Oh Children please, things must be boring

 

Can I just ask, is there any medical evidence for the injury ? I would have thought that the police would take this into account

 

I am cynical I am afraid after hearing many exaggerated stories from my ex daughter in law

 

BTW everyone is commenting on one side of a story, there are always two versions and often a third which is the truth

[goodatresearch]

We can only respond with regards what the op has said.

 

Medical evidence for the injury - the police couldn't give a toss about this. They are lazy.

 

Child is attacked by dog- not our problem

Evidence that women is threatened with physical violence - not our problem

Husband states wife has had a drink so i can hit her- not our problem

And this is my favorite was raped, not my problem.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

QUOTE=fletch70;4710891]Oh Children please, things must be boring

 

Can I just ask, is there any medical evidence for the injury ? I would have thought that the police would take this into account

 

I am cynical I am afraid after hearing many exaggerated stories from my ex daughter in law

 

BTW everyone is commenting on one side of a story, there are always two versions and often a third which is the truth

[p3t3r]

Police taking injury into account? Dont make me laugh, they arent interested.

 

Luckily they were not interested in a prosecution for wasting police time when the OP made an emergency 999 call to inform the police the delivery driver had not delivered in accordance with her wishes.

[goodatresearch]

Prosecution for wasting Police time? Really? She could easily argue that he knocked the mobile out of her hand when she tried to call his office to query the delivery.

 

Is it wasting police time when someone pushes someone off a van step casusing physical damage.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Luckily they were not interested in a prosecution for wasting police time when the OP made an emergency 999 call to inform the police the delivery driver had not delivered in accordance with her wishes.

[p3t3r]

Prosecution for wasting Police time? Really? She could easily argue that he knocked the mobile out of her hand when she tried to call his office to query the delivery.

 

She already stated that she made an emergency 999 call to the police BEFORE the alleged assault took place.

 

Making an emergency 999 call in relation to a problem with a product being delivered is IMO a total waste of police time. It was while she was on the phone during 999 emergency call complaining about her product not being delivered correctly that the alleged assault took place.

 

She could argue this as you say, although the truth has already been stated in her post.

[goodatresearch]

Oh its OK then. To be clear, its OK to be assaulted for trying to hand someone a phone to ask them to speak tho an officer..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

QUOTE=p3t3r;4710962]She already stated that she made an emergency 999 call to the police BEFORE the alleged assault took place.

 

Making an emergency 999 call in relation to a problem with a product being delivered is IMO a total waste of police time. It was while she was on the phone during 999 emergency call complaining about her product not being delivered correctly that the alleged assault took place.

 

She could argue this as you say, although the truth has already been stated in her post.

[goodatresearch]

The police dont take anything into account. As I said their lazy. Criminal damage - not our problem. Dog attack on a 10 year old - not our problem. Death treats on social medial and shouted in public in front of witnesses -not our problem.

 

 

 

 

 

 

QUOTE=fletch70;4710891]Oh Children please, things must be boring

 

Can I just ask, is there any medical evidence for the injury ? I would have thought that the police would take this into account

 

I am cynical I am afraid after hearing many exaggerated stories from my ex daughter in law

 

BTW everyone is commenting on one side of a story, there are always two versions and often a third which is the truth

[p3t3r]

Oh its OK then. To be clear, its OK to be assaulted for trying to hand someone a phone to ask them to speak tho an officer..

 

No, of course it is not! But the full story from OP is that she firstly started shouting at the delivery driver, then went up to the drivers van whilst opening the door and then proceeded to put her foot on the step of the van - the delivery driver was probably at this point alarmed and simply pushed her away whilst driving off. The delivery driver defended himself against what I presume he thought to be a potential attack.

 

The alleged broken rib from being pushed away by the van driver is unfortunate, however that injury was a result of someone defending themselves.

 

People have a right of defend themselves from a person who has shouted at them, opened their vehicle door and them attempted to gain access to the vehicle.

[fletch70]

I think you need to be very careful in claiming that the police do not act on domestic violence or rape as they clearly do(otherwise there would be no rapists in prison)

 

I am not saying there is not room for improvement and I would also suggest that some of the reasons why the police do not act as appropriately as I think they should is down to resources lets all give the government a hand. Of course there will be elements of racism, sexism etc but can you say these are institutional, well not without evidence.

 

The police seem to have investigated and decided that there is no point with progressing the case (for what reasons we do not know) so all that can be done now is to let the OP follow the civil process.

 

All I was saying is that to offer advice without asking the pertinent questions is rather unhelpful

[huggy41]

I thankyou all for the laughter this morning never read so much tripe.

I am a delivery driver myself and I must tell you open MY door without an invite you get hit simple as.

 

Police are great when they are not answering 999 calls because a sofa is not delivered.

Yes go for PI with a no good no win bottom feeder and get laught out of court YOU and you alone made this happen by opening HIS door.

 

Go and find somthing better to do with yourself.

[king12345]

I thankyou all for the laughter this morning never read so much tripe.

I am a delivery driver myself and I must tell you open MY door without an invite you get hit simple as.

 

Police are great when they are not answering 999 calls because a sofa is not delivered.

Yes go for PI with a no good no win bottom feeder and get laught out of court YOU and you alone made this happen by opening HIS door.

 

Go and find somthing better to do with yourself.

 

Don't be so harsh with the kind and gentle little woman. (see my story in previous post)

[mummy38]

Thanks for everyone's comments. The phone call to the police was after he knocked the mobile from my hand but before the assualt, I was on hold on my cordless landline to his office. I hung up and dialled 999. He knew I was on the phone to police, I had them on speaker phone.

 

Fwiw, I had to open the door to give him the phone, I am physically not tall enough to reach the window. He is denying he touched me. Yes I have been to hospital, yes there is a film medical report

[unclebulgaria67]

Thanks for everyone's comments. The phone call to the police was after he knocked the mobile from my hand but before the assualt, I was on hold on my cordless landline to his office. I hung up and dialled 999. He knew I was on the phone to police, I had them on speaker phone.

 

Fwiw, I had to open the door to give him the phone, I am physically not tall enough to reach the window. He is denying he touched me. Yes I have been to hospital, yes there is a film medical report

 

You can still claim for personal injury against the delivery companies vehicles Insurance, whether the driver intended or not to injure you. Contact a personal injuries Solicitor and they will take this forward for you.

[goodatresearch]

One police authority had been in trouble for telling alleged rape victims to go away. There's also plenty of cases of police ignoring reports of domestic abuse and the victim being killed followed by claim "lessons have been learned". What about the police ignoring the Asian rape gangs. Stephen Lawrence? I could go on.

 

I am sure that there are good policemen out there, indeed our former local officer, who has now retired, was great. However my opinion of the police has been formed by my personal experience with them. 4 cases of criminal damage where they knew the culprits, action only taken on one case and that because I made a fuss. Family member threatened with physical violence in front of witnesses by a known drug addict on numerous occasions, no action taken and told they would only act if she was physically assaulted and injured. Dog attack on child, told by police this was not their problem although this is a criminal offence under DDA ( now acting because local council has intervened). 16 year old son walking home from friends, racist abuse shouted at him by a gang of grown men; witnessed by 2 police officers who let the men walk on but proceeded to harass my son until my husband turned up and asked them what they were playing at (police grunted under their breath and drove off). Husband car stopped every morning after a night shift over the Christmas period when driving out of his work site and asked where he was going/been (despite the fact it was obvious he was leaving a government installation in a line a traffic of cars doing the same thing. Did I mention it was the same police officer and my husband showed his government ID each time. Only stopped doing it when he asked the officer " what's the matter, do we all look the same")_

 

 

 

 

I think you need to be very careful in claiming that the police do not act on domestic violence or rape as they clearly do(otherwise there would be no rapists in prison)

 

I am not saying there is not room for improvement and I would also suggest that some of the reasons why the police do not act as appropriately as I think they should is down to resources lets all give the government a hand. Of course there will be elements of racism, sexism etc but can you say these are institutional, well not without evidence.

 

The police seem to have investigated and decided that there is no point with progressing the case (for what reasons we do not know) so all that can be done now is to let the OP follow the civil process.

 

All I was saying is that to offer advice without asking the pertinent questions is rather unhelpful