assualt by a delivery driver

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

Regardless of their delivery requirement/protocol, if the delivery agent decides it is not safe to deliver, then he wont deliver. Thats his choice. He will have to deal with his gaffa for that.

 

You got aggressive first by demanding he stay where he was. You have no right to demand anything of him.

He rightly got irate with you in that instance.

 

The problem is opening his door and climbing in his cab. Je could just say he thought you were going to hit him. Thats you in very hot water the.

[havinastella]

You phoned 999 because he wouldn't deliver and you thought the delivery driver was stealing your delivery? REALLY!!

 

Sometimes I give up

Edited March 21, 2015 by havinastella

[mummy38]

Grumpy I wasnt aggressive with im at all, I had made arrangements with the delivery, what is aggressive about asking someone to wait while I rang the office to confirm the arrangements for the delivery!!!!! Perfectly normal actually, his own office protocol dictates that he should ring if there is a pre determined arrangement that he has not been advised of or they cannot adhere too. He is even supplied with a phone.

 

Havingastella. Stupid really, a delivery driver walks away, with the goods, swears at the customer, refuses to stay to allow the customer to call the office. Takes the goods. Refuses to tell the customer why he is going and what he is doing.

 

It's more than one person who has a delivery confirmed as the van tracker says so.

[goodatresearch]

Although the poster acted stupidly the driver didn't appear to have any common sense at all. As soon as there was a problem he should have reported in for advice.

 

So she shouted what the hell are you doing and stood on the step of the van. Is that really a defence for knocking a phone out of her hand and assaulting her? Of course not.

[p3t3r]

If I was a delivery driver and someone opened the door of my van and started to enter the van, I would have also pushed them away. The fact that a phone was knocked out of her hand and that there was a cracked rib is unfortunate, but that is a consequence of her invading the van drivers space, - entering his van and attempting to climb into it, which caused the van driver to react (push).

 

Notice - push, not hit or strike.

[f16]

What was being delivered ?

How many delivery people?

[mummy38]

It was a single sofa bed there were 2 delivery people.

 

When I opened the door I was asking him to talk to the police and I was also handing the phone to him. This is clearly heard on the 999 call.

 

Pushing someone with enough force to crack s rib is not a push

[unclebulgaria67]

All you can do now is to make a formal written complaint to the head office of the company you bought the sofa bed from.

 

If you want to pursue the delivery driver for your injury, you will have to speak to a Solicitor that handles injury claims. You may be able to get a Solicitor to deal with this on a no win no fee basis. Have a look locally for Solicitors that handle all types of personal injury claims. The delivery driver should have Insurance against liability to third parties. It won't be easy, but I think this is the only route you can take now, as the Police won't investigate further.

[mummy38]

Thanks uncle Bulgaria. I don't parti want to go after the company I bought the goods from and they did nothing. What I have found out is the company that they contract the deliveries too use temp drivers on zero hours and don't crb check them.

[unclebulgaria67]

Thanks uncle Bulgaria. I don't parti want to go after the company I bought the goods from and they did nothing. What I have found out is the company that they contract the deliveries too use temp drivers on zero hours and don't crb check them.

 

You have to pursue this in two ways.

 

1) Legally your contract was with the store you purchased the sofa bed from. They are responsible for the actions of the delivery company they use. You also have a breach of contract, as they failed to honour the contract you had with them. This includes any agreement you had with the store to deliver the sofa bed and to put in the room of the house, which you say was agreed with the store beforehand.

 

2) You could also have a personal injury claim against the delivery driver and this is where you need to contact a Solicitor that deals with personal injury claims. They may be willing to do this on a no win no fee basis.

 

I don't want to be rude, but you need to start thinking and acting rationally. If you come across as a little bit mad, you will not be taken seriously. Any Solicitor that helps you, is not going to be interested in delivery company zero hours contracts and no CRB checks. All a Solicitors wants to know are the facts about how you became injured.

[mummy38]

I look into both thank you. I am still pretty shaken by the whole thing

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

Although it seems like they breached their contract of delivery, it may have been because access to the delivery address was out of the scope of safe working and therefore, as per normal terms and conditions, the delivery would be aborted on H+S grounds. Nothing new there. No different to a sky installer realising he has to install a dish on your chimney instead of your wall. it would be rebooked for a different day with a specialist fitter.

 

Personal injury claim could be pursued, but not forgetting you opened his door and tried to climb in the cab. That may be followed up with a counter claim for:

Attempted vehicle hijack reported to police(criminal, unlikely, but possible)

Invasion of personal space/assault reported to police(criminal, unlikely, but possible)

Opening his door and climbing in(aggravated tresspass) the fact is you had no legal right to be in his lorry(tresspass). opening his door is an aggravating factor that removes the defence of "i just strayed onto his land/property/private area"

There are many many things that he could come back at you with so i would advise being very careful. The above are only examples obviously and may or may not be applicable.

 

Also, you said you have not recorded anything and that you have still pictures only. How have you got proof he hit the phone out of your hand?

 

Also, please dont make the "im only a small girl" claim. I have seen many women fighters who would be alot smaller than you and would easily take on a normal deliver driver.

Look online for female convicts and check the size stats. Size means nothing. They are not all big aggressive girls.

 

As UB has said above, you need facts only, and the solicitor wont entertain random accusations that would have no bearing on you or your case.

Also, not forgetting there are 2 delivery drivers, and therefore 2 witnessess to your behavour, so you must be prepared to supply witnessess of your own or cctv. some voice recording and some still pictures wont mean anything.

Dont forget to go to the hospital and ensure you have copies of the xray/medical notes also if you are to pursue this.

 

Has the company commented on the delivery? rescheduled? cancelled? refunded?

[goodatresearch]

Notice - pushing someone in UK law can be considered to be an assault and in this case this caused injury. As for a defence, did he really believe he was being attacked? Was reasonable force used? Why did he think she was entering the Van, she was only stood on the step to hand him the phone, where was her intent?

 

Notice - knocking a phone out of someone hand is very aggressive, she could have thought she wsd being attacked and this could be

Construed as an attack and then there's the criminal damage aspect.

 

 

 

If I was a delivery driver and someone opened the door of my van and started to enter the van, I would have also pushed them away. The fact that a phone was knocked out of her hand and that there was a cracked rib is unfortunate, but that is a consequence of her invading the van drivers space, - entering his van and attempting to climb into it, which caused the van driver to react (push).

 

Notice - push, not hit or strike.

[p3t3r]

Notice - pushing someone in UK law can be considered to be an assault and in this case this caused injury.

Yes it can be considered as an assault. Although, surely a person has the right of defend themselves when their vehicle door is being opened and someone is attempting to enter a vehicle.

 

As for a defence, did he really believe he was being attacked?

If someone opened my car door and attempted to what I believe to climb into the car, then I would believe I am about to be attacked.

 

Was reasonable force used? Why did he think she was entering the Van, she was only stood on the step to hand him the phone, where was her intent?

The van driver can not possibly know her intent, she opened the door and then stood on the step, at which point the van driver pushed her away. My opinion is the van driver had a right to do this. If I was in the van drivers situation, I would have followed his same actions. Although I would be mortified if i broke someones rib. I suggest that the balance of probabilities of being pushed would not cause a rib fracture?

 

Notice - knocking a phone out of someone hand is very aggressive, she could have thought she wsd being attacked and this could be

Construed as an attack and then there's the criminal damage aspect.

Knocking phone out of someones hand could be quite accidental in their attempt to push the lady out of the van and to stop a potential attack.

 

Again, I say notice that the word 'pushed' was used, not thumped, attacked, hit, but push. Whilst as you say it can be considered an assault, it can also be considered to be defence. The van driver could have hit her, which would then be assault in my opinion as it was excessive force. But to 'push' someone is acceptable, especially after screaming "where the hell are you going".

[goodatresearch]

She didn't enter the van, merely stood on the step to hand him the phone, therefore no tresspass, aggravated or otherwise.

 

In any case tresspass on its own is not a criminal offence.y You'd have to show she intended to commit a crime. As she was only trying to hand him a phone, and the police will have evidence of this, the very idea is ridiculous. Any argument that he was defending himself when he assaulted her could also be disproved by the phone call.

 

Counter claim for vehicle hijack? The police would laugh at the very idea.

 

Crime of invasion of personal space? No such thing.

 

As for you comment on "I'm only a small girl" this is relevant to whether reasonable force was used. Did he really think a small women handing him a phone required him to use force that resulted in a physical injury.

 

The problem is that the police can be lazy. There's proof of her injury and the phone call. Yes there is another witness, but that doesn't mean to say that both delivery persons wont contradict themselves when interviewed. AND will the other guy want to risk getting the sack by not giving a true statement.

 

Personally I would see a solicitor and pursue this as a civil action for PI and breach of contract.

 

 

 

 

 

Although it seems like they breached their contract of delivery, it may have been because access to the delivery address was out of the scope of safe working and therefore, as per normal terms and conditions, the delivery would be aborted on H+S grounds. Nothing new there. No different to a sky installer realising he has to install a dish on your chimney instead of your wall. it would be rebooked for a different day with a specialist fitter.

 

Personal injury claim could be pursued, but not forgetting you opened his door and tried to climb in the cab. That may be followed up with a counter claim for:

Attempted vehicle hijack reported to police(criminal, unlikely, but possible)

Invasion of personal space/assault reported to police(criminal, unlikely, but possible)

Opening his door and climbing in(aggravated tresspass) the fact is you had no legal right to be in his lorry(tresspass). opening his door is an aggravating factor that removes the defence of "i just strayed onto his land/property/private area"

There are many many things that he could come back at you with so i would advise being very careful. The above are only examples obviously and may or may not be applicable.

 

Also, you said you have not recorded anything and that you have still pictures only. How have you got proof he hit the phone out of your hand?

 

Also, please dont make the "im only a small girl" claim. I have seen many women fighters who would be alot smaller than you and would easily take on a normal deliver driver.

Look online for female convicts and check the size stats. Size means nothing. They are not all big aggressive girls.

 

As UB has said above, you need facts only, and the solicitor wont entertain random accusations that would have no bearing on you or your case.

Also, not forgetting there are 2 delivery drivers, and therefore 2 witnessess to your behavour, so you must be prepared to supply witnessess of your own or cctv. some voice recording and some still pictures wont mean anything.

Dont forget to go to the hospital and ensure you have copies of the xray/medical notes also if you are to pursue this.

 

Has the company commented on the delivery? rescheduled? cancelled? refunded?

[Old Cogger]

Did the delivery chap have a Nappy on???? blxxx hell he would not of lasted 5 minutes in my days of deliveries!! man or mouse!

[goodatresearch]

When she opened the door, she asked him to speak to the police on the phone, so he pushed her off the step of the van because he didn't know her intent? Not much of a defence.

 

Are you medically trained? Pushing someone can cause rib damage.

 

As to your argument that the driver had the right to push her out of the van, why? She was handing him a phone. Complete over reaction.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Again, I say notice that the word 'pushed' was used, not thumped, attacked, hit, but push. Whilst as you say it can be considered an assault, it can also be considered to be defence. The van driver could have hit her, which would then be assault in my opinion as it was excessive force. But to 'push' someone is acceptable, especially after screaming "where the hell are you going".

[goodatresearch]

I do agree with you. Two men come to deliver a sofa and one of them is so frightened of a small women shouting at him and standing on his vans step to hand him a phone makes him lash out and assault her. I can't believe he's being defended on here. If my husband acted this way, and he works with the general public, most of the times in stressful situations, quite frankly I'd leave him.

 

 

 

Did the delivery chap have a Nappy on???? blxxx hell he would not of lasted 5 minutes in my days of deliveries!! man or mouse!

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

She didn't enter the van, merely stood on the step to hand him the phone, therefore no tresspass, aggravated or otherwise.

 

In any case tresspass on its own is not a criminal offence.y You'd have to show she intended to commit a crime. As she was only trying to hand him a phone, and the police will have evidence of this, the very idea is ridiculous. Any argument that he was defending himself when he assaulted her could also be disproved by the phone call.

 

Counter claim for vehicle hijack? The police would laugh at the very idea.

 

Crime of invasion of personal space? No such thing.

 

As for you comment on "I'm only a small girl" this is relevant to whether reasonable force was used. Did he really think a small women handing him a phone required him to use force that resulted in a physical injury.

 

The problem is that the police can be lazy. There's proof of her injury and the phone call. Yes there is another witness, but that doesn't mean to say that both delivery persons wont contradict themselves when interviewed. AND will the other guy want to risk getting the sack by not giving a true statement.

 

Personally I would see a solicitor and pursue this as a civil action for PI and breach of contract.

 

I stopped reading after the first 4 lines. She already stated she opened his door and stood on his step so you are making things up.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

I heard from the police this evening and he has denied and it's my word against his so there is very little that can be done so here is my story.

 

I placed an order and it was arranged to be going upstairs.

1st delivery didn't turn up

2nd delivery the guy appeared to be delivering kerbside

 

I queried, and told him that it was no good. I had arrangements with the office. and he started with h&s. There were queries and I was told by office that if product didn't fit the room that they would take it away.

I got annoyed due to previous arrangements and went in to get phone to call office. I came out and delivery guys were leaving

I called after them said where the hell are ye going I'm ringing the office

Older guy shouts at me " you can't fu****g tell me what to do, your not myfu***ng wife.

There is a 50m walk to van and I stupidly followed them ask d a no of times to return the delivery as I was phoning office and I was ignored

I photographed van reg and tried to photograph him as he hit my mobile out of my hands, I have a pic of this.

I advised I was calling either phone or police, I called 999 as he put my delivery in the back of the van.

He got into the van as I was talking to 999 and I asked them to speak with driver , as far as I was concerned my delivery could be being stolen as him taking it was illogical

I'm tiny, 4ft 11 and here was my mistake, I opened the van door and stood on the step to hand him the phone. He pushed me out of the van with such force he cracked a rib in my chest.

 

That's my story, cops could hear everything and can't see the assualt. I should have videoed not photographed with my Mobile

 

See here, I opened his door. Intent to enter. She could have just held the phone to the window and he could have taken it if he had wanted too then.

[p3t3r]

When she opened the door, she asked him to speak to the police on the phone, so he pushed her off the step of the van because he didn't know her intent? Not much of a defence.

She had no right to open his door or attempt to get into the van. The van driver had the right of defence against what he probably believe was some erratic person attempting to gain access to his van.

 

Are you medically trained? Pushing someone can cause rib damage.

Yes, I am medically trained (11 years). I haven't said that pushing someone can not cause rib damage. The balance of probabilities would suggest pushing someone would not cause rib damage, unless they were suffering from certain specific illnesses, osteoporosis being an example.

 

As to your argument that the driver had the right to push her out of the van, why? She was handing him a phone. Complete over reaction.

 

Yes, complete overreaction as you say. Overreaction in the sense that an emergency 999 call was made because a delivery driver didn't deliver goods as per her expectations!

[goodatresearch]

Trespass is only a civil tort, only the aggravated versions of trespass are criminal offences. Civil tort damages for standing on a step are likely to be nil as no actual damage had occurred.

 

You can only use reasonable force to remove a trespasser, the amount of reasonable force depends on the prevailing circumstances. You are not entitled to assault or harm a trespasser in any way. In one case a man found someone up a low ladder against his house, shook and overturned the ladder throwing the trespasser to the ground. Although he was not injured, the judge ruled the amount of force used was unreaonable.

 

The balance of probabilities test isn't relevant. The thin skull rule would be used. Evidence of physical injury would come from a medical report. Off course, if the driver is denying he didn't touch her at all, then that's a different matter.

 

Medically qualified 35 years ago.

 

Legally qualified 16 years ago.

 

Person injury claims working experience.

 

 

 

Yes, complete overreaction as you say. Overreaction in the sense that an emergency 999 call was made because a delivery driver didn't deliver goods as per her expectations!

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

Trespass is only a civil tort, only the aggravated versions of trespass are criminal offences. Civil tort damages for standing on a step are likely to be nil as no actual damage had occurred.

 

You can only use reasonable force to remove a trespasser, the amount of reasonable force depends on the prevailing circumstances. You are not entitled to assault or harm a trespasser in any way. In one case a man found someone up a low ladder against his house, shook and overturned the ladder throwing the trespasser to the ground. Although he was not injured, the judge ruled the amount of force used was unreaonable.

 

The balance of probabilities test isn't relevant. The thin skull rule would be used. Evidence of physical injury would come from a medical report. Off course, if the driver is denying he didn't touch her at all, then that's a different matter.

 

Medically qualified 35 years ago.

 

Legally qualified 16 years ago.

 

Person injury claims working experience.

 

Yea, reasonable force to remove a trespasser. But we are talking about the op opening the door and possibly climbing into the cab. The driver could have been unsure as to what she was about to do and pushed her away. Perfectly acceptable. If she stayed in his cab, he would be entitled to grab and pull her from the cab. Reasonable force. That is the minimum force necessary, not no force at all.

[goodatresearch]

There is nothing in these posts to suggest she entered the van. Disprroportionate force to protect property is unlawful. There is also nothing in this post to suggest the driver thought he was being attacked. Your making it up as you go along.

 

In the example I used which is case law, the home owner didn't know the intruders intentions yet the force used was considered unreasonable.

 

Put it this way :

 

Judge to claimant - "why did you stand on the van step"

Answer -"to hand him the phone, I told him to speak to someone on the other end".

 

Judge to van driver - "Did she try to hand you the phone"

Answer - "no"

Judge - looks at phone call evidence log. " but that's not true is it"

Van driver - "erm"

Judge - "so why did you push her"

Van driver -"she was on my van" or "I thought she was trying to assault me".

Judge -"if she was on your van, why didnt ask her to leave"

Van driver - "erm"

Judge - "unreasonable force"

Van driver - "but she could have assaulted me"

Judge - "we have a phone log of her handing you the phone"

Van driver - "erm"

Van driver - "I didn't know pushing her would cause injury"

Judge - looked at medical evidence. Not relevant , injury was caused.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yea, reasonable force to remove a trespasser. But we are talking about the op opening the door and possibly climbing into the cab. The driver could have been unsure as to what she was about to do and pushed her away. Perfectly acceptable. If she stayed in his cab, he would be entitled to grab and pull her from the cab. Reasonable force. That is the minimum force necessary, not no force at all.

[p3t3r]

There is nothing in these posts to suggest she entered the van. Disprroportionate force to protect property is unlawful. There is also nothing in this post to suggest the driver thought he was being attacked. Your making it up as you go along.

 

In the example I used which is case law, the home owner didn't know the intruders intentions yet the force used was considered unreasonable.

 

Put it this way :

 

Judge to claimant - "why did you stand on the van step"

Answer -"to hand him the phone, I told him to speak to someone on the other end".

 

Judge to van driver - "Did she try to hand you the phone"

Answer - "no"

Judge - looks at phone call evidence log. " but that's not true is it"

Van driver - "erm"

Judge - "so why did you push her"

Van driver -"she was on my van" or "I thought she was trying to assault me".

Judge -"if she was on your van, why didnt ask her to leave"

Van driver - "erm"

Judge - "unreasonable force"

Van driver - "but she could have assaulted me"

Judge - "we have a phone log of her handing you the phone"

Van driver - "erm"

Van driver - "I didn't know pushing her would cause injury"

Judge - looked at medical evidence. Not relevant , injury was caused.

 

what is a phone log of her handing him a phone? how does a phone log prove this?

 

so, what you say - it is acceptable if i walk to your car, open the door, put my foot on the door sill... and you would just sit there as cool as a cucumber, allowing me to open your door, put my foot on the door sill?