HELP! XMAS Claim from CABOT / WRIGHT HASSALL CLAIM for old EGG Card

[gforce2k]

Ok, I'd like to leave the last few points re 'embarrassed' and 'amended' defence unless damaging in any way? I have the room for everything and I'm running out of time.

thanks gf2k

[dx100uk]

don't forget you prob have 1 more day than stated as boxing day is not included

 

Ok, I'd like to leave the last few points re 'embarrassed' and 'amended' defence unless damaging in any way? I have the room for everything and I'm running out of time.

thanks gf2k

 

no they are now out of date methods according to advice on here

 

I'd leave filing till midnight saturday

 

give andy a chance to review my attempt tomorrow

 

dx

[gforce2k]

ok thanks, if damaging will exclude.

As it is MCOL only allowed me to save the defence not submit due to a technical problem.

Hopefully I have the extra day as you say but I have a screen print of the problem so should be covered if timing becomes an issue.

 

As soon as it's working tomorrow/Sunday I'll submit but in the meantime I'm emailing MCOL customer services re the problem.

 

I'd leave filing till midnight saturday

 

give andy a chance to review my attempt tomorrow

 

dx

 

that would be great.

thanks again for your help so far.

cheers,

gf2k

[dx100uk]

I'm not too sure on 2, regarding paragraphs 2 +3 accepting rather than denying.

you could deny as 5yrs is a long time to recall/keep letters.

 

 

dx

[gforce2k]

thanks again dx, i don't recall accepting in 2, should have been denied

 

you're right it could be argued it's over 5 years so perhaps some wording to that effect?

[dx100uk]

i reworked it.

 

 

see what andyorch says

 

 

I'm sure he will pop in.

 

 

dx

[gforce2k]

cheers again dx, off to bed but will check first thing and throughout tomorrow.

[gforce2k]

i reworked it.

 

 

see what andyorch says

 

 

I'm sure he will pop in.

 

 

dx

 

Hi dx,

I've been checking in during the day but no posts from andyorch or anyone else, any suggestions? Do you know a way I can get in touch with him?

Thanks

Gf2k

[dx100uk]

andyorch rarely appears much before 10pm

 

 

dx

[gforce2k]

Thanks dx, I'll keep looking.

[dx100uk]

you don't need to

you'll get an email alert.

 

 

dx

[dx100uk]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?307613-MBNA-debt-Wright-hassle-AK-claimform/page2&highlight=wright

 

 

post 88 look promising here

[gforce2k]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?307613-MBNA-debt-Wright-hassle-AK-claimform/page2&highlight=wright

 

 

post 88 look promising here

 

Thanks dx looking now but does seem promising, similar issues like them claiming the entire amount in interest.

[dx100uk]

POC

 

1. The Claimant's claim is for debt(s) arising from the consumer credit Act 1974 Agreement(s).

 

2. The Claimant is an Assignee of the following debts, notice of the assignment having been given to the Defendant in writing.

 

3. Egg Credit Card. Account no. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx #19,xxx.xx. Despite demands for payment, the above sums remain due.

 

4. The Claimant therefore claims the sum of #19,xxx,xx interest under s.69 County Courts Act 1984 and costs..

 

####Defence####

 

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature.

The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3)

in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

2. Paragraphs 1 & 3 are noted,

I have in the past had financial dealings with EGG

but I am unaware of any balances outstanding.

EGG have not contacted me with regards to any arrears in recent years

3. Paragraph 2 is denied I am not aware of any assignment as stated above or any requests for payments.

I have never received statements or Notice of Sums in Arrears given that the claimants plead they are the legal owner of any alleged debt.

It is my understanding and pursuant to the CCA2006 amendments that the claimant is prevented form any enforcement during this lack of service.

 

4.Paragraph 4 is denied the Claimant has failed to plead the correct method of section 69 interest or any calculation at all.

 

5.Notwithstanding the above, requests for information pursuant to the consumer credit Act (section 78) and CPR 31.14 were made.

The requests were sent around the xxxxxxx by xxx postal method . To date I have received no response or acknowledgement from the claimant’s solicitor.

 

6.As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

7.On the alternative, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions

of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer Credit Act 1974

 

It is denied with regards to the Defendant owing any alleged monies to CABOT.

The Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement with the Claimant; and

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

© evidence any nature of breach and show service of a Default Notice and Notice of sums in Arrears.

(d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.

 

8.By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

check this over then..copy and paste into MCOL and print your receipt as proof of submission.

 

Best of luck

 

Regards

 

 

dx

 

 

[nicked from andyorch]

 

 

with respect

[dx100uk]

changed slightly

 

 

dx

[gforce2k]

hi dx I have changed around the defence to the following:

 

PoC

 

1. The Claimant's claim is for debt(s) arising from the consumer credit Act 1974 Agreement(s).

 

2. The Claimant is an Assignee of the following debts, notice of the assignment having been given to the Defendant in writing.

 

3. Egg Credit Card. Account no. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx #19,xxx.xx. Despite demands for payment, the above sums remain due.

 

4. The Claimant therefore claims the sum of #19,xxx,xx interest under s.69 County Courts Act 1984 and costs..

 

 

####Defence####

 

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature.

The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

2. Paragraphs 1 & 3 are noted, I have in the past had financial dealings with EGG but I am unaware of any balances outstanding.

EGG have not contacted me with regards to any arrears in over 6.5 years.

 

3. Paragraph 2 is denied I am not aware of any assignment as stated above or any requests for payments.

I have never received statements or Notice of Sums in Arrears given that the claimants plead they are the legal owner of any alleged debt.

It is my understanding and pursuant to the CCA 2006 amendments that the claimant is prevented from any enforcement during this lack of service.

 

4.Paragraph 4 is denied the Claimant has failed to plead the correct method of section 69 interest or any calculation at all.

 

5.Notwithstanding the above, requests for information pursuant to the consumer credit Act (section 78) and CPR 31.14 were made.

The requests were sent around the 22nd December 2014 by Registered postal method. To date I have received no response or acknowledgement from the claimant’s solicitor.

 

6.As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

7.On the alternative, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer Credit Act 1974

 

It is denied with regards to the Defendant owing any alleged monies to CABOT.

 

The Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement with the Claimant; and

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

© evidence any nature of breach and show service of a Default Notice and Notice of sums in Arrears.

(d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.

 

8.By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

----------------------------

 

 

I may have received some form of statement but can't find it so unsure of Point 3 denying? Should I worry or submit as is?

 

thanks again

 

gf2k

Edited December 28, 2014 by Andyorch
Particulars added

[dx100uk]

I'd submit it

the fine points can be argued later.

 

 

dx

[gforce2k]

thanks dx,

 

 

been trying but MCOL bounces me to technical issue page repeatedly, same thing since Friday.

 

Once again i have emailed them with screenshots but this time I have included the defence in the email so at least with them technically.

 

My printer is buggered so relying on MCOL,

though I'll try to get the fax function to work tomorrow if you think that would work.

 

Hope they make allowances for Christmas hols & tech issues come Monday.

[dx100uk]

it is quite common for MCOL to have issues.

 

 

simply email the defence placing the Claim number in the subject line

 

 

should be ok

 

 

dx

[gforce2k]

thanks, did that and have just successfully submitted via MCOL, not sure why but looks like the issue was the brackets.

The ones at the top in the POCs were for some reason not a problem whereas those in the body of the defence were.

As soon as I changed them from () to [] it saved fine.

[Andyorch]

A little late but responding to your PM....was stuck on the M5/M6 all day untill after 11.00pm last night.

 

Defence looks good...well done GF and DX.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[gforce2k]

A little late but responding to your PM....was stuck on the M5/M6 all day untill after 11.00pm last night.

 

Defence looks good...well done GF and DX.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Thanks Andy and thanks again dx, happy Christmas to you both and fingers crossed for me! ;-)

[gforce2k]

hi guys,

this week i have received 2 letters, one from hassalls, one from cabot.

 

Hassall's letter thanks for my letter (CPR13.14 request)

but as a County Court Claim has been issued I should used the Response Pack to request documents.

 

"Notwithstanding the above, we have already requested the documents you require from our Client (Cabot)

and upon receipt we will forward you the same."

 

Then they say that if i do not respond to the the CC in the correct way by 5th Jan they will request Judgment by default.

 

- (the letter was dated the 24th but the envelope shows posted 29th Dec

2nd class so it only got to me on the 5th,

 

 

the defence was already in by the time it and

 

 

I have confirmation from the court but have to say even considering christmas post it seems they deliberately delay letters.)

 

Cabot's letter acknowledges the request for info under the CCA,

admits Cabot does not have this on file so they they have requested it.

 

 

It also mentions my request for Deed of Assignment,

that as it is 'confidential between the original lender and us'(Cabot) it 'is not available for disclosure'.

 

They then go on to estimate they will be able to provide this information within 40 days!!!

 

 

In the event they cannot obtain the information they will write to me again.

 

-(40 days is very long, anything i should do? a letter of dispute?)

 

Thanks,

 

gf2k

[dx100uk]

where does our CCA request say anything about requesting the deed of assignment?

 

 

those letters if you read some other cabot/hassell threads are quite the std reply

 

 

you don't need to do anything.

 

 

dx

[gforce2k]

Hi everyone,

an update and advice request.

 

since my last post I received a pack of info from CABOT, a letter from WH and the Court Allocation pack.

Afraid my scanner isn't working properly so i've had to type up everyhting that looks relevant, apologies beforehand:

 

CABOT

 

Page 1 - Cabot Cover Letter

"Information under the Consumer Credit Act 1974"

"Please find enclosed all the relevant information following your request for information under section [77-78] of the CCA 1974. We can confirm that we have produced a reconstituted true copy of your credit agreement, which for the avoidance of doubt complies with the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 and therefore complies with the obligations set out in section [77-78] of the Consumer Credit Act 1974." This is a pre-Apr 2007 account, is reconstituted ok?

"What happens next" etc...

"The status of your account" etc...

"Contacting Cabot" etc...

 

Page 2 - Cabot Statement of account just a basic statement letter

 

Page 3 - Blank

 

Page 4 - Copy of Letter from Canada Square Operations (prev.Egg) to Cabot

"Thankyou for your recent request to Egg Banking Plc, which is now known as Cabot Square Operations.

Unfortunately, we cannot locate all of the documents you requested. However, we have enclosed copies of each of the following documents that we were able to retrieve:

- Card Statements never had these before, last statements 2006

- Notice of Default Sums (NODS) no sign of this

- Notice of Sums in Arrears (NOSA) no sign of this

Please note that we no longer charge a fee for investigating such requests. If you made your request by post with a cheque enclosed, your cheque has been securely destroyed.

Your faithfully

Canada Square Operations"

(no signature)

 

Pages 5-8 - Copies of Egg Statements from March 2009 - 3 years after the account was cancelled!

 

Page 9 - Copy of Letter from Canada Square Operations to Cabot

"Thank you for your recent request to Egg Banking Plc, which is now known as Cabot Square Operations.

Please find enclosed (where applicable)the following documents(s):

1. Consumer Credit Agreement (CCA) - a copy of the original CCA reconstituted

2. Original terms & conditions - a copy of the original terms and conditions reconstituted

3. Current terms & conditions - a copy of the current terms and conditions reconstituted

(3 docs mentioned but only 2 included, 1&2 seem to refer to the same 'original cca' doc?)

Please note that the documents enclosed are historic copies of the originals previously issued and therefore all contact details (including any phone numbers, email or postal addresses, secure message and website details) are no longer available. Please therefore ensure any correspondence is sent to Canada Square Operations at the above address.

Please also note that we no longer charge a fee for investigating such requests. If you made your request by post with a cheque enclosed, your cheque has been securely destroyed.

Yours sincerely,

Cabot Square Operations"

(no signature)

Pages 10 -21 - Original CCA

...this appears to be a global/all encompassing CCA which includes all the variations/different versions within clauses for different periods of time, particularly the Interest clause 4 (i.e.For customers who apply between 1 may 2004 and 31 may 2004...We will charge interest: ..., For customers who applied between 1 April 2004 ...etc...)

Pages 22-34 - Current CCA?? - Unfamiliar yet personalised CCA. Never seen anything like these terms yet they have been provided with personal details included, albeit in highlighted grey sections which stand out from the rest of the doc, new info has been entered, including my name/address and unfamiliar APR/Interest details e.g.:

"CREDIT CARD AGREEMENT REGULATED BY THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974"

"This is a credit card agreement between Egg Banking plc of 1 Waterhouse Square, 138-142 Holborn, London EC1N 2NA

and you:

MY NAME

ADDRESS

POSTCODE

In condition 8, we set out the meanings we have given to some terms in this agreement

KEY FINANCIAL INFORMATION

1.CREDIT LIMIT

...

2.REPAYMENTS

3.APR

the APR for your Agreement is WRONG% (variable).

etc.......on Purchases a variable interest rate of WRONG%...etc."

 

As I say this 'Current CCA' (Pages 22-34) has similar but very differently arranged terms to the 'original' but I've never received anything like it, yet it has clearly been altered to include my personal details. It has greyed out sections/blocks of text with barely legible text within - these blocks include my personal details, incorrect APR rates that have no relation to the original account and a monetary figure under a clause titled ' Total Cost of Credit, which I have never seen before.

Clearly all this has been added recently and has no relation to anything I've agreed to so my question is as this is all blatant reconstitution surely it is not admissible/actionable for Pre Apr 2007 Accounts?

My understanding is that CCAs entered into Pre Apr 2007 require a signed proper copy?

 

I've also received a letter from Wright Hassall and I've received the Court N149B Allocation to Fast Track form which I'll be filling out shortly.

 

Letter from WH

The letter from WH states that their client Cabot purchased 'your debt' in late 2009 by way of legal assignment.

It also states that my last payment was early 2009 though the only 'proof' of this payment is the Egg statements which are 3 years after the account was cancelled in 2006 and statements stopped coming to me. Surely more proof is needed/a paper trail?

They also note my CPR 31.14 request including copies of the agreement and assignment, but they have no record of a valid request for docs under s78 of the CCA 74 and have requested confirmation of this point from their client (cabot). They state they will comply with their disclosure obligations as they arise so not sure if it's worth it to re-send a request?

They refuse to provide the Deed of Assignment but have requested a copy of the Notice of Assignment that was apparently sent to me by Cabot and will forward a copy upon receipt. No Notice of Assignment received from anyone yet, or Default notice or Signed copy of the CCA so anything I can/should be doing?

Offer

Lastly in with the above letter is another letter from WH making an offer.

"WITHOUT PREJUDICE SAVE AS TO COSTS

Further to our open letter of today's date we are prepared to offer you a discount of 10% in order to bring to a swift resolution to this matter.

As our Client has been forced to pay legal costs to bring this claim, the balance of the claim is now £**,*** (over £20k). This figure will rise considerably as legal proceedings continue.

Our Client is prepared to offer you 10% off this sum, representing an offer of £18,***.** in full and final settlement of this claim.

This offer will remain open until 4pm on..., after which it will expire.

If you would like to accept or discuss this offer further please contact the writer on the information below quoting your reference number at the top of this letter.

If we do not hear from you by ..... we may make appropriate applications.

Your sincerely,

WH

Wright Hassall LLP"

Is WH offering this because they're worried? Possibly because they can only provide reconstituted CCAs and statements, haven't provided the NOA?

I might be able to scrape together 10% but not 90% so is it worth considering responding with a settlement offer given the downside on costs? If I go beyond this response date is that it, no chance to reconsider?

 

I know it's a lot but hope you can advise.

Thanks,

 

gf2k