gforce2k
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Everything posted by gforce2k
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ok thanks, i'll make sure that i don't. i'll update the thread once they have notified the court etc.
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no, they viewed the wording as final. do you think that will be a problem going forward?
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Thanks Andy, I'm posting the Tomlin Order in half an hour, should I date it or leave that for WH? Thanks, gf
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Thanks Andy and Ford, Having considered the options and risks I've decided to accept the non-Part 36 offer pending Tomlin Order wording. This is due on Monday before the 4pm deadline for Witness Statements to be submitted. If I agree with and sign the TO do i just email the court that we have settled or do i still send a WS to be safe? Thanks, gf
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Hi Andy, Hope you're well. I need some urgent advice re the pros & cons of accepting a Part 36 offer or a 'costs to date inclusive' offer (non-Part 36?) Specifically I've had a c£16k Part 36 offer inclusive of interest but plus costs (c£2k) OR a c£17.5k non-Part 36 offer inclusive of costs-to-date. WH made the P36 offer just under 21 days ago so I can still accept without incurring further costs, however after speaking with them yesterday re concerns over costs and wording if I accept I got the following email with what looks like a new non-Part 36(?) offer: "We refer to our telephone conversation earlier today. Having reviewed the matter further, we confirm that our Client is willing to accept a settlement sum of £17,4**.** in full and final settlement of the Claim. This is inclusive of all costs to date. We note that you proposed that the Settlement Sum be paid by you in equal monthly instalments. In order to assess whether this offer is acceptable to the Claimant, and to assess whether the level of monthly instalments that are affordable to you, please complete the attached Income and Expenditure form. Once you have completed the Income and Expenditure form please return it so that we can take instructions from the Claimant. If the Claimant accepts your offer to pay the Settlement Sum in the monthly instalments indicated in the Income and Expenditure form we will draft a Tomlin Order for your signature and arrange for this to be filed at Court. As previously discussed the use of a Tomlin Order would afford you the desired certainty with regards to the payment terms that we agree whilst also communicating to the Court that the matter has been settled without the need for a County Court Judgment and the risk of further enforcement action." Both offers come to pretty much the same final total, but slightly less for the new costs-inclusive offer, so it's making me wonder why they seem to be stepping away from the Part 36 wording. Is there any benefit to non-Part 36 for them going forward? i.e. leaving me open for costs/interest later? Could they be trying to get me to accept this new offer so I miss the 21 days on the Part 36 offer? The Witness Statements are due on Monday by 4pm so they say they need the I&E form back by 4pm today to reach a decision with the client, I have it ready but I'm not sure if I should still accept the Part 36 offer to be within the 21 days. Would that be at all beneficial/preferrable to me? Part 36 is money only(?) so restricts the wording of any Tomlin Order/Agreement correct? which they may not want Part 36 usually requires 14 days or risk Judgment being entered but we've already discussed a longer term arrangement, so I can safely accept the Part 36 without forcing payment within the 14days? Or am I over-thinking and should I just accept the new 'costs-to-date inclusive'/non P36 offer to put the whole thing on hold? Really need to decide on this now so could you put me straight on the pros & cons please. Thanks in advance. Best, GF 2k
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Thanks CB, yes Andy was very helpful with the original disclosure question but this is a different question & nothing underhand, just whether it's still poss to add other docs to disclosure after lists exchanged. no problem. cheers gf2k
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Hi CB, I'll keep it short I know you have a lot of posts to deal with. disclosure lists exchanged, deadline for requests monday 4pm, WH emailed a request for everything friday so have 2 weeks to send docs to them. If I felt i had to, can i get away with adding something else to the list at this late stage (e.g. cancellation of card agreement letter/original agreement etc.)? thanks, gf2k
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Also CB I'd appreciate your view regarding the signed agreement question. Particularly if you know what case law I could quote to shut them down? At the CMC their rep only provided reconstituted agreements but the judge lapped it up saying that it was a long time ago and the court accepts that sometimes in these situations original documentation gets lost/can't be found, the docs are all that the claimant has been able to find so they are acceptable...which completely contradicted my understanding. Thanks, gf2k
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thanks CB, Egg definitely stopped charging interest from that point yet as soon as C@b0t bought the debt 3 years later they started to add interest. Their claim includes c£6k+ interest which from what you and Andy have affirmed they have no right to charge. Is this a potential claim killer or just a negotiation point? Either way do I have to present the letter to prove the point? it isn't in the disclosure list. Cheers, gf2k Also CB I'd appreciate your view regarding
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thanks Andy, I'll have a good read through but just on the question of the letter is cancellation essentially termination? if as I hope it is then do I need to try to include it in disclosure in some way or is referring to cancellation in my WS enough? cheers, gf2k
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Thanks Andy, That's very much my view but WH are increasingly firm that it's reasonable for their client to charge interest and that they only need reconstituted docs. As regards Termination would a "Your Egg Card account has been cancelled...", cut up your cards etc. letter be sufficient? As regards Signed agreement what point of law may I quote in future/on my WS? One last thing...WH have drafted a letter to request docs from my disclosed list but haven't sent it yet (apparently pending approval?) and the deadline is monday for requests to be in. Their rep may give me a call to go make the request verbally. Is this acceptable or is it a strict enough deadline that I should try an application to strike? thanks, gf2k
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Hi Andy/everyone, An update and some questions if anyone can help please: Disclosure I've had no bounceback from WH's email address after submitting my N265 Disclosure List on Monday, but also no confirmation of receipt which I find odd/worrying. I've still not sent any hardcopies, money is extremely tight so posting hardcopies (which I have to pay to produce too) means I can't unless absolutely unavoidable, however I'm wondering if I need to send hardcopies today to be safe? Less urgently but also important some questions that may affect my Witness Statement: Interest: Since C@b0t bought the balance from egg c£14k in 2009 they have added interest "at a rate of 12% per annum on a simple basis." so they estimate now c£22k with legal costs. This is despite not providing a Signed agreement at any time for an account opened in May 2004. Do I have grounds to dispute this interest given the account is in dispute? No Signed Agreement I have always understood a signed agreement is needed for pre-2007 agreements but they seem to think not? Could anyone clarify what the limits of this defence might be for me? Many thanks everyone, gf2k
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Thanks Andy, at least I'm ready for any request which may reach me tomorrow. fingers crossed...
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perhaps I should call them to check receipt/intentions?
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I understand it's not the done thing, in fact it's overkill but the letter of the Order hasn't been adhered to so I'm thinking overkill might help mitigate the risk of Strike Out on a technicality. If I was in their position I would try any opportunity to Strike out given that there is a clear warning in the Order but do you think the court would see that as overkill on their part given that the 265 was only 3 minutes late, albeit by email? I know it's my own little storm in a tea cup but I'd rather go overboard to be safe, I just keep remembering how unforgiving the judge was.
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Thanks Andy, My concern is that WH may use my being 3 mins over to use this strike out my defence. The Order has a warning in bold at the top: Warning: you must comply with the terms imposed upon you by this order otherwise your case is liable to be struck out or some other sanction imposed. If you cannot comply you are expected to make a formal application to the court before any deadline imposed upon you expires. Also, when I got their N265 last week they had enclosed the only document in their Disclosure List that I had not already received, so i have nothing to request now. Surely I may as well do the same proactively to be safe? They will most likely ask for the docs anyway this week (they have until next Monday) and at the least if I file everything in the list proactively it will dissuade the court from agreeing to any application they may make to Strike out? Surely I won;t be penalised for providing everything voluntarily? Thanks, Gf2k
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Thanks Andy should i just send everything voluntarily to save time?
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Thanks for coming back to me so quickly Andy, That's good to hear but I'm going to go back to the library to scan/copy their receipt from yesterday and also print a hardcopy of a Screen Print of the printer problem. Oops, N265, noticed that this morning too so corrected my letter, I'll email it again with everything when I have the receipt scanned in and print it off at the library too. If I take that all in to the Court and submit it physically over the counter will that be dealt with/seen by the judge quicker than my emails? I understand emails and post are usually running 10 days behind due to the backlog but perhaps over the counter is different? Thanks, gf2k
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Hi Andy, I had terrible issues submitting my N264, I completed it in good time but couldnt print it until yesterday at the library as my home printer didn't work. As a result I had to email but it didn;t allow electronic signature so I still had to find a way to print it. I downloaded the completed N264 to a usb and took it to the library but their systems didn;t recognise it, the N264 was blank and I was stuck at the library with an hour to go and no information to complete a new one. I couldn't get back home in time the only way I could redo the N264 was get my wife to send photos of the completed version on my pc at home. She did this and I re-typed the form, printed it, signed it and re-scanned it but throughout this the library system kept logging me out repeatedly and closing what was working on so although I did finally email the court and WH it was pretty much dead on 4pm so slightly over time when they got it. I've emailed a letter to the court tonight with a full explanation of the technical issues/extenuating circumstances which were a comedy of errors, but I don't know if it'll do any good. Am I scuppered irrevocably or is it possible the court will take into account those circumstances and the fact that I'm LiP without the financial & technical resources of a solicitors? Frustrated. Thanks, GF2k
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ok thanks Andy, back to you later if I have any other questions. Cheers, gf2k
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Sorry, disclosed later than/after Standard Disclosure today. I understand there is a running requirement to disclose right up until the trial hearing? If so I imagine there must be a mechanism in place to file/submit/disclose new docs that come to light even after the Standard Disclosure deadline? thanks gf2k
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Ok thanks Andy, so anything disclosed later cannot be relied on, has to be now or never (I think that's what you were saying?) cheers, gf2k
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Thanks Andy, think I'm clear on all that now, and yes perhaps too many movies... My unclear question was basically if I find something later and want to disclose it can I? i.e. if I by the time I do my Witness Statement (or any other time after Standard Disclosure and before the trial) find any docs that I want to disclose can I or have i lost my chance if not disclosed in standard disclosure? Thanks, gf2k
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Thanks Andy, sorry for the not getting back to you sooner, a lot going on at home. Re PPI defence I've searched, nothing definitive on the PPI stuff but I'll introduce it in the Witness Statement later anyway, as you say no harm - If it's going to be mentioned in my WS does anything PPI related have to be disclosed now or can I disclose docs later if I find them elsewhere? Re the Tomlin I agree I never want to get credit again but if i remortgage or move it will be a big issue, that's the only reason it's a concern although I really don't want to give in. As regards payments and I&E (if we get that far): - don't I need to prove a regular salary for the court to deem a repayment plan viable? I earn at best sporadically at the moment with no monthly paycheck. I could put down an arbitrary monthly average based on annual earnings but if they asked for proof (payslips/regular monthly income) I wouldn't be able to show it. Would that not matter to the court as long as the payment agreed is met? Is it ok to just put down my monthly element/fraction of mortgage/utilities etc. to keep my wife off the I&E? or Do I have to put down full amounts of bills/other people's contribution etc. i.e. a 'household' I&E (i.e. my wife)? If so would that make my wife jointly liable or would it still be legally only my debt? As regards disclosure I've admitted to having had dealings with Egg in the past but am unaware of monies owing so: if I don't list any Egg stuff in disclosure now will they accept that it was over 7 years ago or think I'm hiding stuff? WH only disclosed a list of 6 or so docs but must have tons of other stuff available yet that's not listed in there and they're solicitors! They've not even listed anything under 'I have had the documents numbered and listed below, but they are no longer in my control' section which can't be right. Is this normal even for solicitors to be blatantly selective with disclosure (when the letter of the law is to include everything even if harmful)? What about if I/they find a bunch of docs later, can I/they introduce it or will that be frowned upon? Also do parties in these kinds of claims go as far as to insist on a search of the other party's premises if they feel there is not full disclosure? Thanks, GF2k
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Thanks again Andy, The PPI question I have is: Is mis-application of PPI viewed as breach of contract? PPI was added at the start of the account even though I didn't want it, 2-3 premiums were charged by the time I found out, I complained and the premiums were refunded (I don;t know if PPI premiums attract interest like other debits/transactions but none was mentioned/ever repaid). Can anyone tell me if I can reasonably argue breach of contract or if there is any point of law/case law i can mention to support a breach of contract argument? Thanks GF2k
