forged £20 note???

[M_A_A_B]

Hi, not sure where this should be so if it needs to be moved...please do!

 

I got money from a cash point yesterday and tried to spend £20 today in McDonalds....they found that the note was a fake and took it from me saying they werent allowed to give it back.....I'd never had this happen before so wasnt sure what to do.

 

I phoned my local police when I got home to ask for advice and they told me to call the McDonalds as they shouldnt have taken it from me and I should have it back (or at least some kind of receipt to say they had taken it) so that I can claim my £20 back from the bank....phoned McDonalds and went back down there and got it back....

 

I phoned my bank (Abbey) and got passed around until I was told to call the number for their team that deals with fraud to do with ATM machines....they are only open monday-friday...9 til 5.....so now I'm not sure what will happen

 

Has anyone else been through this and did you get your money back from the bank?? I'm on benefits so dont have a lot and wanted to take my sister out to treat her (she ended up paying though unfortunatly!)....do they have to give me my money back?? I dont want to be stuck with this useless £20 note! (it's a pretty good fake!)

[feefofum]

HI, Had a similar expereince about 3 years ago, though we realised straight away that the £10 we'd withdrawn from an ATM was fake. (Felt very thick and plasticy). Luckily the branch was open and we went straight in and explained, but we had a HUGE job convincing the staff it had come from their machine. Only the fact we had NO other money on us whatsoever, and had teh receipt shoing a £10 withdrawal from their machine a minute earlier made them beleive us (but only after we offered to empty all our pockets and bags to prove we'd not swapped it).

Don;t want to dishearten you, but good luck!!

[Guest NATTIE]

It would be worth speaking to Abbey because of the embarrassment caused and the obvious loss of a £20 note. Have they got a head office complaints department? If so I would also complain. It is unusual but I have heard a couple of cases in my time.

[M_A_A_B]

I was given the number of their ATM fraud team and was told they'd have to verify which cash point it came from as more may be in circulation....if I dont get any joy with that then I will complain...

 

thanks for the replies

[breadline]

an A4 sign stuck on the machine reading " This machine is handing out counterfiet notes" would of turned banks heads imagine how many other people may have gotten them:eek:

 

Banks are like snails when it comes to other peoples money.

 

Hope you get you money back.

BL:)

[POCA]

Counterfeit banknotes handed in to the police are sent off to the Bank of England for destruction. Contact BoE and ask if they will exchange it for you.

[traceyrmj]

did you get this back amy? *waves* fancy seeign you here

[M_A_A_B]

hi TJ *waves*

 

Havent got it back yet....have to try and get through to Abbey's ATM fraud team first!

[lookinforinfo]

The main trouble for most people is the difficulty in spotting a forgery in the first place. Some

notes are very good, whilst others are absolute rubbish. At one time I used

to be regularly shown forgeries of both sterling and dollars, which gave myself

and the others working with me more of an idea of what we had to look for.

But it is quite rare to see one unless you get passed one somehow, and the

person you hand it to, recognises it as a forgery.

Incidentally, how did Mc Donalds spot it-did they use an ultra violet lamp?

 

I don't think many counter staff could pick out a forgery whilst counting a bundle

of notes, and there is no chance of finding any if a counting machine is involved.

So when some people are confronted with being in possession of a forgery [a

crime in itself I believe] it is understandable that they would try to claim

it back from an ATM supplier.

I am not accusing you MAAB, but it is an easy target, since there are no other witnesses, so I can understand the reluctance of your bank to repay.

 

Now that there are so many people in your area who know that you have one, it

might be difficult to get reimbursed for it if your bank won't accept your story.

Do not give it to them unless they will buy it back.

The normal way to deal with it, especially as there is only one, is to get it back into

circulation where it no longer becomes your problem. Eventually, if it is a good one,

it will end up at the Mint for destruction as an old note, and the forgery will be

spotted again and taken out of circulation.

 

The purists may not approve, but it is not them sitting on a potential £20 loss.

 

The main way of spotting a forgery is by the quality of the paper. A forgery very

rarely feels the same as a good note. And of course in our notes there is a metal strip woven into the note. Also, if you rub the face of the note hard ona piece of

white paper, you will see some of the colour from the note on the white paper.

If you have a photo copied forgery, the colour will not "run".

And an ultraviolet light is pretty conclusive since the forgery should come up

a totally different colour [usually whiteish] compared to a good example.

 

I have counted literally thousands of pounds of notes, and doubt if I have ever found

more than a handful that were no good so the risk is, for most people, pretty small.

Poorly lit premises where a fair bit of money tends to change hands in one transaction are the sort of place where forgeries are most likely to be tendered.

 

In addition, the quality of the face of the note is better than the back [if it isn't a

photocopy] since most notes are passed face up.

[M_A_A_B]

thanks for that....

 

McDonalds used a pen to test the note....

 

Now that I know it's a forgery I can tell...the paper is too smooth, the ink looks very slightly smudgey etc but I didnt take any notice before as it does look good.

 

I understand what you're saying about getting it back into circulation....I didnt want someone else to end up with it like I did though and I wanted to do the right thing....now it's looking like that will cost me £20

[POCA]

So when some people are confronted with being in possession of a forgery [a

crime in itself I believe]

 

Not quite. You need to have an intent to pass it on as being genuine to commit an offence.

[dax]

Drew some money out to pay a builder a few years back and he showed me one of the notes was dodgy while counting it.

 

I went straight back around to the Abbey with reciept of the withdrawal transaction and dodgy £20 note and they exchanged it without any qualms at all.

[patdavies]

Not quite. You need to have an intent to pass it on as being genuine to commit an offence.

 

Which is what lookforinfo was suggesting him (her)self

[lookinforinfo]

I may be wrong Poca, but I always thought that being in possession of a forgery was an offence, in the same way as someone being in posssession of stolen goods.

 

And Pat [i'd fail the medical check to qualify as a female] I said that the common practice was to pass it on, though I was careful not to suggest it in this case.

[POCA]

I may be wrong Poca, but I always thought that being in possession of a forgery was an offence, in the same way as someone being in posssession of stolen goods.

 

And Pat [i'd fail the medical check to qualify as a female] I said that the common practice was to pass it on, though I was careful not to suggest it in this case.

 

Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981

 

16(1) It is an offence for a person to have in his custody or under his control any thing which is, and which he knows or believes to be, a counterfeit of a currency note or of a protected coin, intending either to pass or tender it as genuine or to deliver it to another with the intention that he or another shall pass or tender it as genuine.

[lookinforinfo]

Poca, I am surprised that you of all people missed the follow on to 16 [1] to the

Forgery and counterfeiting Act 1981-

 

16(2) It is an offence for a person to have in his custody or under his control, without lawful authority or excuse, any thing which is, and which he knows or believes to be, a counterfeit of a currency note or of a protected coin.

[POCA]

The important wording is "which he knows or believes". So, simple (innocent) possession, which is what we're talking about here, is not an offence. You must know or believe it to be counterfeit.

[lookinforinfo]

I made the point after MAAB had been told that the note was a forgery

and therefore while 16 [2] of the forgery act didn't apply before the visit to

MC Donalds, it surely did after.

[POCA]

That would depend on what they intend to do with the note. Don't forget, there has to be an absence of lawful authority or excuse. If they intended to take it to the police, to their bank to hand in etc then they have an excuse.

[lookinforinfo]

Oooohh- you do like to wriggle.lol

[POCA]

Naturally

 

Innocent possession is almost always never a crime though.

[M_A_A_B]

The thing is, I spoke to the police and they told me to get it back...so surely I cant be accused of committing a crime when I was just doing what the police told me to do......I'm a bit confused now...

[POCA]

Don't worry, you have an excuse for possession of the note. As long as you take it to the police.

[fryster]

From a business point of view, if you spot a fake note what do you do with it, simply refuse it and hand it back, or keep it and inform the police? I was of the understanding that you keep the note and inform the police, but this looks like it's wrong?!

[POCA]

It would depend on whether the customer wanted it back. You have no power to seize the note. It's up to negotiation between you and the customer as to who wants to hand it back. Personally, I'd be telling the customer to go hand it in.