Perch/TM PAPLOC - old Lending Stream debt - letters, calls, SMS (mass financial abuse of a mentally impaired person and partner running up lots of debts in their name) stolen pers details

[SandN]

Please could I ask for some advice regarding a debt that TM Legal holds?

I have taken control of my partner's finances with his permission.

My partner has Bipolar Effective Disorder, and he's under the care of a psychiatrist.

Some 4-5 years back, he was in a relationship where the partner had taken advantage when he was very depressed. The partner used his fingerprint whilst my partner was sedated to access his smartphone, where he could access bank accounts, credit cards and other identity details. The relationship progressed to coercive control and financial abuse.

Several loans were taken out, and new credit and store cards were applied for and used. It took intervention from the family to evict him and the partner left the country. At that stage, the family assumed the financial abuse was limited to my partner's current account and the credit cards they knew about.

After 12 months, letters started appearing around loans and cards that my partner was unaware of. the Mental Health Crisis team got involved and intervened with a statutory treatment plan. The psychiatrist provided him with a debt and mental health evidence form setting out how his illness impacted finances.

Fast forward to the beginning of May 2023. My partner became very unwell again and asked that I manage his affairs under the supervision of his sister. We set off undertaking a credit search to identify what was outstanding and where the debt was.

I have a couple of questions that I will add to the thread in the next day or two, but one is frightening us.

This is a debt that was initially with Perch Capital. The debt details were

the total amount Opened: £1250;

total outstanding £2077;

Opened 21st September 2019 and hasn't been updated since Feb 2022.

We wrote by Royal Mail signed for Perch Capital on 3rd May 2023. We requested to issue documents in reference to s.78 of the consumer credit Act 1974. I also described his current illness and complex mental health issues.

I included a Debit and Mental Health Evidence Form issued by his Consultant Psychiatrist. We also provided signed documentation to let me deal with his account, and we offered to complete their process for third-party access to accounts if the document provided wasn't sufficient.

I described how this issue has a profound and detrimental impact on his Mental Health, as documented by his Consultant Psychiatrist. At this point, neither of us had heard of TM Legal. Perch Capital received our letter on 10th May 2023.

The next we hear is from TM Legal with a letter dated 12th May 2023, which we received on 17th May 2023. I immediately wrote back to TM Legal highlighting that I had sent a letter to Perch Capital at the same postal address, I had not had a response from Perch Capital, nor have I had the documents that I had requested in pursuance of s.78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

I was surprised and disturbed by the letter's tone and subsequent SMS messages on the threatening legal action. As I set out in my letter of 3rd May 2023, that we do not recognise this debt and need to ascertain where it came from. I described the circumstances and again pointed out my partner's vulnerability. I asked for the outstanding documents I requested and outlined a process by which I could manage his finances again.

There have been various letters and phone calls, but we await a credit agreement. On Saturday, I got very spooked as we received a letter “Formal notice of potential legal action” and my partner received three SMS again threatening legal action.

We could not afford to get a CCJ, which they were threatening. They said they would put the legal action on hold for 2 days, but I needed to give them a statement of income and expenditure within those 2 days, or the legal action would be started.

I did the income and expenditure, adding his various debits, and sent by email without prejudice and asked again for the credit agreement. They say that they have the credit agreement and that the debt is enforceable and say they sent the agreement by email to an address we are unfamiliar with;

I can only presume it was an account set up by his ex-partner to manage the financial abuse. I spoke with them again today as they continue to bombard my Partner with SMS, and I'm frightened it will drive him into crisis. They were uninterested in my questions and challenged the income and expenditure statement.

I eventually got through to her and asked for the CCA; she repeated that it had been sent to an email address. We pointed out that we had made the request in May and asked for a copy in a letter, not an email.

Today they told me that I have 2 days to get back to them and that she would email the challenges on the income and expenditure and was asking for bills and bank statements, whilst he has nothing to hide, neither of us wants some debt collector pouring over our private affairs.

Please can someone give us some advice as we are living in fear of this company going via the courts and him getting a CCJ?

Any help is appreciated.

[dx100uk]

post spaced into paragraphs with punctuation.

1st stop stop stop talking on the phone, block their numbers, block the txt msgs, report each one as spam to 7726. from now on only ever communicate by royal mail LETTER and only when we tell you too.

until or unless perch/tm ever get the agreement to you or send a Letter of claim (if they already have not?) you IGNORE THEM.

a dca is not a BAILIFF

and have ZERO legal powers on ANY debt - no matter what its TYPE.

as for the overall financial abuse, i would be contacting action fraud you could also contact the police and hopefully get the CID involved , 

have a read of this thread and think about the links near the end and involve those organisations too....

Mass identity fraud - TfL penalties/PCNs vehicles not mine but in my name whilst abroad - now bailiffs - help!! - Bailiffs - Help with Dealing with Bailiffs and Enforcement Agents including HCEO - Consumer Action Group

dx

[fkofilee]

Horrendous Treatment by Perch Group IMHO

Recently dealt with them and they backed down after 15 months on a very old debt. 

It took a lot... Reason I say is because you will probably have issues too dealing with them

 

To get them to back off for now -  Email Simon.unsworth@perchgroup.co.uk with a formal complaint and your docs about the mental health aspect. They should back off for quite a while.

Perch own ACI and TM Legal - Debt would have been passed from ACI onto TM Legal.

 

Also dont submit the I&E again as its not worth it. They have no right to see it. Although we dont condone DM Advice, happy to look over correspondence that has been sent by them if it is a problem. 

Plus proof of bills etc isnt needed. Im sure we can help you bat this out of the park before it even gets anywhere near a court. 

[SandN]

dx100uk 

Thank you for the instructions and advice regarding Action Fraud.

His family initially went to a solicitor who helped with various letters etc., but the Ex had gone to the other side of the world, and they didn't appreciate the magnitude of the issue. The police were uninterested as they deemed my partner had given him access to his accounts, email and social media. We are going to try action fraud.

I have blocked TMLegal on calls and SMS today and will not reply to any further emails. I have a question:

Reference the post under you from fkofilee 

• Is it ok to send them a final email with debt and mental health evidence forms copied to the director that fkofilee suggested instructing that all future correspondence must be sent by Royal Mail?

I will not enter anything via phone, SMS or email. I saw a past post from dx100uk advising someone to write a final email as above.

• Once we cut off the email and calls, are we then waiting for a letter of claim or pre-action protocol, which I must respond to, and I guess we can get advice as we update the next steps?

We are terrified of getting a ccj as it impacts my partner's job and would cause dismissal, which we don't want at this stage.

Many thanks and hugely appreciated.

[dx100uk]

do as @fkofilee says they have far more actual involvement with these situations rather than my observations here over 16yrs here+

they would not go near a court room dont worry.

i know this sounds irish, but it is far far better this DOES goto court and everything is exposed to a judge, they will actually help, i can bet you that . doesnt mean a CCJ stop panicking.

dx

[fkofilee]

Will respond in a bit  - Lets get you out of the hole

 

[fkofilee]

Hi @SandN

 

So lets take a look here with this. 

Yes - Send a final email to the director and to complaints@tm-legalservices.co.uk. Dont send any other information to them. Just advise them that further correspondence must be in writing only to the address supplied. There is actually a entry in the CONC Sourcebook by the FCA (Rules that govern credit services) that specifies they must adhere tp your contact terms. 

 

 

https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/CONC.pdf

 

You should pay attention to all of CONC 7  and CONC Section 7.10 

 

 

You would qualify in this regard with reference to your OH. What correspondence do you have from ACI / TM Legal? Can I see it all please? 

Itll help me decide the next steps to take outside as to what I have told you. 

 

As for court - They do go. but a well defended claim can actually stop them and also even if it got to a court / Mediation and their case was watertight and abides by all legislation then you can still walk away without a CCJ - Tomlin Orders exist for that reason. 

But if you have all the evidence as per above in your original post then its highly likely the judge will have a field day with this one... 

 

Also 

Given the circumstances - TM Legal havent done enough to qualify as complying with the requirements under the mental health side of it. 

Do not speak on the phone - AT ALL! 

[fkofilee]

@SandN - If you get a chance, come back and let us know how you got on with the email. 

[SandN]

Sorry for the silence. I have drafted the email of complaint but I’m not at home until tomorrow and needed to check a few of the letters for dates etc. I will also redact the personal details and scan them here as you suggested. I’m sorry, I should have acknowledged your message. We are really appreciative of your help. 

[fkofilee]

Oh its fine! We are aware that people have lives and these things are slow. 

Please do let us see when you get a chance. I am free all weekend mostly so can help

[dx100uk]

i added suggestion.

he has obviously moved since taking out this PDL

ensure you also state his current and correct address is. xxxx

might be an idea to do this with ALL the other debt owners too

the LAST thing you need is a backdoor CCJ.

dx

 

[SandN]

See attached as requested.

I have noticed the references to the debt jump between Lending Stream, Perch, ACI and TM Legal are quoting them all.

I know for absolute fact the we haven't received any letters from at least June/July of last year. I installed an external mailbox to make sure I was getting all of the post.

They also note that if they have not received a completed claim form before 9th August 2023 that they will commence legal proceedings and mention CCJ

 

 

2023-05-12 TM PAPLOC 2023-07-10 TM formal legal letter..pdf

[fkofilee]

Thanks @SandN

Looks to be standard stuff here. Based upon the 1st page, seems like they have issued out the PAPLOC (Pre Action Protocol Letter Of Claim) 

This is the precursor to a Claim Form. What happened to the email to the Complaints / MD I gave you? 

Did you get a response? 

 

 

[SandN]

We have only just sent the complaint tonight.

We are not going to be at home from 25/07/23 - 7/08/23 inclusive.

So its likely they will pursue this through CCJ?

We still haven't seen the CCA although the representative was very clear that they had the CCA. They claimed to already have emailed it and offered to email it to me again. I asked for it to be sent by post and within the complaint I've set out that we will only deal with them by post.

I find it astonishing that they start legal action within days of me contacting them myself to ask for the CCA and offer to set up a repayment plan once we ascertain if OH owns the debt.

Edited July 23, 2023 by fkofilee
Removed Name :)

[fkofilee]

They have to allow 30 days from the date of the PAPLOC at least before initiating legal action. 

As for the complaint, Hopefully itll stop the legal action for now and allow you time to breathe. 

 

Can you post the complaint you are sending tonight? 

 

 

 

[SandN]

I’m really sorry to be so needy. If they give 30 days from issue of PAPLOC that will take us to the 8th August. Is it worth updating the complaint to tell them we are in Ireland/away until that date? They just seem so cut throat. Despite me pleading and setting out his MH issues they just wanted the money. 

[fkofilee]

Well when you get back - If you have a claim form pop through the post, you get 14 days to defend plus 14 days acknowledgement plus 5 days delivery IIRC - So an additional 33 days. But we hopefully wont get there. 

So yes tell them if you want...  If you come back to aclaim form - So be it. It can be defended. 

 

Dont worry about being needy.  

[dx100uk]

just to clarify my fellow siteteams explanations.

IF you get a court claimform pack (N1) from northants bulk court , it will be in an A$ brown windowed envelope.

in there will be a claimfrom raised by Perch/TM. it will have a claim number and a date top right.

you have 19 days to acknowledge the claim , if thats done, a further 14 days to file a defence is given = a TOTAL of 33 days from the date top right on a claimform to file a defence. 

 

you need to REPLY to the PAPLOC dated 10-07-2023

this will give you 30 days from your reply.

hit letter of claim

follow post 2 (YOU MUST DO THIS BEFORE YOU GO AWAY)

additional reasons - the claimant has failed to provide any relevant/enforceable paperwork. the debt is subject to mass spousal abuse of a mentally impaired partner, please see my email/letter dated xxxxx

and yes send off a CCA request +£1PO dx

 

 

[SandN]

Thanks folks, I really appreciate your support. I’ll get this off by signed for post tomorrow. 

[SandN]

Sorry, we have not received any form. Only the two letters I’ve uploaded. Should I follow the instructions on the link to PAPLOC #2 and complete the form you’ve embedded even though they haven’t sent one?

[dx100uk]

well they say they enclosed them if you read their 2nd letter.

dont take a chance...head them off at the pass... trust us.. do it!!

p.s - you thus now dont need to write to them about the address .

make sure his current and correct address is filled in at the top of our template .

make sure you get free proof of posting from the po counter for both the paploc reply and the cca request.

further musings:

dont be scared of it going to court.

in fact it might well be a very good thing as everything will be exposed and i can't see a judge not reacting and helping to what has happened to him and good  resultant outcomes will happen fast.

dx

 

 

[SandN]

Hi All,

Just a quick update before I post an issue regarding two speeding tickets for me.

We sent the response to the letter of claim, the CCA request (again), the £1 postal order and the letter of complaint addressed to the generic complaints email, the named Director and by post (signed for).

We again stipulated that they must only correspond by post.

To date, we have received an email that we haven't opened, but the view stated that they were investigating the complaint and would respond when this was completed.

There have been no letters or further emails.

We now sit back and wait to see what they respond with.

[fkofilee]

Thanks for confirming @SandN - Sorry I didnt manage to see this update.