help required regarding TFL prosecution - **SETTLED BEFORE COURT **

[sddxac]

It is best that you don't overcomplicate things before you get there.

 

Be prepared, take any papers that support your version of events and speak to the prosecutor before going into Court.

 

If you need to do so, the Legal Advisor at Court will give you guidance as to how to put your explanation if it is required.

 

I will prepare as much as possible. I think there are 2 possibilities on that day:

 

1) it was not adjourned. In this case, I need to provide the whole story and as many support evidences as possible.

2) it was adjourned. What shall I do? Still tell the judge everything? Or talk to the prosecutor directly to ask about settling out of the court?

 

I have never been to any court/hearing before so any suggestions are really appreciated!

[king12345]

Do you have any friend that can support you on the day in case the trial is not adjourned?

You will have to represent yourself but a friend could help keeping the paperwork organised and pass you all the evidence as you explain your case.

Also a moral support is always good for your frame of mind, so it won't be you alone against TfL.

Again, your friend wouldn't be able to represent you and will have to be quite, but could act as admin person given that you've never been to court and might find the process a bit stressful.

Try to keep as calm as you can, if you hear some inconsistency from the inspector who stopped you , who will be acting as a witness, don't get agitated.

You will have the opportunity to question him/her and point out the flaw in their statement.

Btw, did they send you the inspector notes taken on the day?

If not you will have another reason to ask for an adjournment because the inspector most likely would refer to his/her notes while giving evidence.

Also a lot of times the inspector final statement does not fully reflect the notes, so those needs to be compared.

[king12345]

As it looks like they will not settle out of court despite not responding to you on several occasions, can you give us more info about the day you were stopped?

Where it happen, where you were stopped (going in or out), what you said to the inspector, if you were cautioned, if you understood the caution, if you signed the notes etc.

Then we need to know what you wrote to TfL when you asked to settle out of court (a scan of the letter minus personal details would be good).

If you have put your hands up completely and admitted of deliberately try to avoid paying or something else.

Another essential bit of evidence are the notes taken by the inspector on the day you were stopped.

If you don't have a copy you will need to request it.

Let us know

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

Reading king12345's good advice has reminded me of the forum stikky by Old-Codja. I hope it's helpful.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?313909-What-happens-when-you-get-to-court-by-Old-CodJA

 

HB

[sddxac]

It is best that you don't overcomplicate things before you get there.

 

Be prepared, take any papers that support your version of events and speak to the prosecutor before going into Court.

 

If you need to do so, the Legal Advisor at Court will give you guidance as to how to put your explanation if it is required.

 

So I would have the chance to talk to the prosecutor before the court? I will print out the letters from tfl so that i can show them we agreed to postpone 2 weeks.

 

Can I discuss with them about settling out of court on the day too? Shall I tell them how much i can pay? Dont know whether they just want to punish me or prefer to make more money.

[sddxac]

Do you have any friend that can support you on the day in case the trial is not adjourned?

You will have to represent yourself but a friend could help keeping the paperwork organised and pass you all the evidence as you explain your case.

Also a moral support is always good for your frame of mind, so it won't be you alone against TfL.

Again, your friend wouldn't be able to represent you and will have to be quite, but could act as admin person given that you've never been to court and might find the process a bit stressful.

Try to keep as calm as you can, if you hear some inconsistency from the inspector who stopped you , who will be acting as a witness, don't get agitated.

You will have the opportunity to question him/her and point out the flaw in their statement.

Btw, did they send you the inspector notes taken on the day?

If not you will have another reason to ask for an adjournment because the inspector most likely would refer to his/her notes while giving evidence.

Also a lot of times the inspector final statement does not fully reflect the notes, so those needs to be compared.

 

My wife can go with me but I do hope I can manage on my own cos she need to book dayoff too.

 

I did have the notes but I was very silly on that day and I said my card ran out of money and long queue outside. I dont have any confidence to win if we cant settle out of court.

[sddxac]

As it looks like they will not settle out of court despite not responding to you on several occasions, can you give us more info about the day you were stopped?

Where it happen, where you were stopped (going in or out), what you said to the inspector, if you were cautioned, if you understood the caution, if you signed the notes etc.

Then we need to know what you wrote to TfL when you asked to settle out of court (a scan of the letter minus personal details would be good).

If you have put your hands up completely and admitted of deliberately try to avoid paying or something else.

Another essential bit of evidence are the notes taken by the inspector on the day you were stopped.

If you don't have a copy you will need to request it.

Let us know

I dont have the note handy now. I can try to add details here later today. On all my previous letters to TFL, I didnt deny the charge. I mainly said i knew my mistake and criminal record can cause serious results to my work and visa. And I woukd like to pay any fine and processing costs.

[sddxac]

Hello again.

 

Reading king12345's good advice has reminded me of the forum stikky by Old-Codja. I hope it's helpful.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?313909-What-happens-when-you-get-to-court-by-Old-CodJA

 

HB

 

This looks a bit scared:( I hope I dont have to do this but this is very helpful if i had to. Thanks!

[king12345]

At this point is a matter of finding a good point of defence based on their evidence, that's why it would be beneficial to see the inspector's notes and your letter.

The prosecutor most likely will approach you and try to convince you to plead guilty.

Bare in mind, they're not lawyers or barristers, they're prosecutors with legal knowledge limited to railway bylaws, rra and other very few acts.

So don't be intimidated by their cocky attitude.

Ask them once again to settle out of court (better in writing, just a piece of paper to hand over to the prosecutor on the day) because "you didn't commit the offence" but you want to close the matter.

It's important to say that you have not committed the offence if you're going to plead not guilty.

Sounds odd but it's not:

Example:

You tried to use your friend's card and were caught.

They're prosecuting under rra (5)(3)(a).

Looks like you have committed the offence because you passed the barrier.

In reality the INTENTION to avoid payment needs to be proved as per rra.

So, despite you passing the barrier you could have had no intention to avoid payment.

That's why it's important to see the evidence to find a line of defence.

[sddxac]

The notes by TFL inspector on that day: (I dont know how to attach image here so just type)

 

1) at 8:07, saw a male coming from street and place oyster to the reader. Mirrors were set to indicate it was student card. asked "can I see your ticket please?"

2) I then gave the oyster card, which is not mine. It has monthly tkt on it, just topped up 5 days before.

3) he asked "Whose oyster card is this" and I said my wife's

4) he asked why and I said my card run out of money. (I think I also said there were long queue outside but I didnt see on the letter)

5) he then asked where I am travelling to and I told him

6) he took my contact details

7) also asked me if I understand the caution and I said yes

[sddxac]

The first letter I sent by special delivery was lost and then I emailed similar letter to TFL after calling them and they told me it was lost:

 

I am writing to express a sincere apology for the situation.

 

On Friday 27th June, I had an emergency when I failed to provide a valid ticket. I have been informed my wife felt seriously ill and I was so worried that I have to rush to her to check if she was Okay. She left her Oyster card at home, so I brought her Oyster card with me to give it to her, in case she need to use it later.

 

My Oyster card was running out of money and I planned to top-up my Oyster card at the station, but the queue was too long at that time. I really cannot wait so I used my wife’s Oyster card instead, I was not aware that using her Oyster card could be taken to court.

 

I want to assure you that I am feeling deeply ashamed and embarrassed with this situation. I will certainly learn the lesson and will never let it happen again. I have kept a clean crime record till so far, and I am fearful of the potential consequences of this incident for my future employment. Could you please kindly consider settling it out of court? I am prepared to pay any fines and administrative costs incurred to TFL during the processing of my case.

[honeybee13]

Hello there and thank you for the extra information. I hope the forum guys will be long later to comment for you.

 

Fingers crossed for tomorrow, please let us know how you get on.

 

HB

[sddxac]

then no reply for 2 months and until last week I got a letter asked me to appear on court this Thursday, I called next day after I got the letter. The guy who picked up my call asked me to provide evidence that this will cause serious issue for my future life and my normal oyster card number to prove I have a good record. I emailed him with evidence that it will affect my visa in UK as well as my oyster card number which I have good record for many years.

 

Then I came to the forum and seek help.

[sddxac]

Hello there and thank you for the extra information. I hope the forum guys will be long later to comment for you.

 

Fingers crossed for tomorrow, please let us know how you get on.

 

HB

 

It was Thursday for the court, sorry I have thought 29th is Thursday. It is 30th so I have one more day to prepare

[sddxac]

Do you guys think how likely the TFL officer will just adjourn the court for 2 weeks on the day? I do have their email confirmation but really dont trust them much...

[king12345]

If you have their email they should honour it.

By inspector notes I mean the full photocopy of what he wrote on his notebook on the day.

Have you got it?

[sddxac]

If you have their email they should honour it.

By inspector notes I mean the full photocopy of what he wrote on his notebook on the day.

Have you got it?

 

I dont have that one, and I thought they will keep it as evidence? I only have the court letter which have the story.

[king12345]

You need to request it from TfL.

If they don't give it to you then they can't use it in evidence and the inspector can't refer to it when giving evidence

[sddxac]

You need to request it from TfL.

If they don't give it to you then they can't use it in evidence and the inspector can't refer to it when giving evidence

 

you mean request the original note or a copy of it? It is only one day to the hearing so I am not sure if we have enough time. They are not that quick to respond.

[king12345]

you mean request the original note or a copy of it? It is only one day to the hearing so I am not sure if we have enough time. They are not that quick to respond.

So they didn't give you any evidence at all?

That's good ground for an adjournment.

If TfL don't adjourn you will have to tell the court that you haven't had an opportunity to see the evidence and ask for an adjournment yourself.

Then you have to request all the evidence from TfL which they want to rely on.

I.e. inspector notes, inspector statement to the court, copy of oyster card, usage statement of oyster card, all communications etc.

Without all of this you can't defend yourself fairly because everything will come as a surprise on the day.

Request it in writing and recorded delivery

[Old-CodJA]

I am a little confused by where this thread is going now.

 

If you have received a Summons to attend Court tomorrow you should have received with it a copy of the inspectors' statement which forms a major part of the evidence on which TfL intend to rely, an MG100 (Means Form) to declare your financial status and a number of other documents, which explain the legal process and will include a Plea Form, for you to enter your plea to the charge.

 

If you did not receive these, what did you receive to tell you that you have a Court hearing tomorrow?

 

TfL are not normally going to produce an Oyster record unless there is a history of offending that shows up on it.

 

If the defendant wants to introduce evidence of past history it would be up to the defendant to request that in advance of any trial.

[king12345]

TfL will always produce the transferred oyster in evidence along with the usage record.

That's the most important evidence proving that the op used it at that time and date.

[rebel11]

Where the OP has let himself down is that he received a letter from TFL in July, he didn't get a response to the letter he sent. They did not respond to his chase emails, what did he think would happen knowing he breached the byelaws.

 

He has only acted now since receiving the recent summons, that is a worry.

 

We should get an update today.

[king12345]

Hi rebel, just a point: TfL is prosecuting under rra 1889 and not bylaw.

So they need to prove intention to avoid payment which plays slightly in the op favour as it's not a strict liability offence.

Unless I've misread the thread.

[Old-CodJA]

TfL will always produce the transferred oyster in evidence along with the usage record.

That's the most important evidence proving that the op used it at that time and date.

 

 

 

Yes, I forgot that the OP had declared a 'transferred ticket' right at the beginning, nonetheless, as rebel says, what might be seen as contributory negligence hasn't helped the OPs case..