We have possibly committed benefit fraud!

[mpbdsnu]

I think we may have committed benefit fraud!

 

 

We get pension credit at the moment, both guaranteed and savings. At 12.30pm today we have a compliance meeting at the jobcentre plus office.

 

 

When we were awarded the savings part of pension credit we had £2000 savings (the only reason we got it). This has now whittled away to just £200! So, without realising it, we have committed fraud because we didn't declare this. Having only just looked into it, not having realised before.

 

 

Are we likely to just have saving pension credit withdrawn? Are we liable to pay it back? Even more worrying, will we lose pension credit all together? Thus losing support for mortgage interest in the process! This would effectively make us homeless!

 

 

Please advise?

[rebel11]

Hi mpbdsnu

 

Just explain that it was an 'oversight' and not deliberate, if there has been an overpayment, they will want it back with penalties. You need to stay positive. Let us know what happens.

[mpbdsnu]

I will let you know what happens, but I am sick with worry! I haven't slept since we got the letter!

[rebel11]

Things always seem a lot worse then they actually are, so just stay clam and stop worrying.

 

I will let you know what happens, but I am sick with worry! I haven't slept since we got the letter!

[mpbdsnu]

Ok thanks.

[estellyn]

I'm a bit rusty on this, but my understanding is that savings credit is calculated on your income from pensions and your income from savings and investments (yes it is somewhat misnamed). Income from savings doesn't kick in until £10,000, so your savings credit wouldn't be affected by a drop from £2000 to £200.

 

So please don't worry, this wouldn't be what your compliance meeting is about.

 

Have you been told it's about fraud? Many compliance meetings are actually checking on the error rates of the benefit processors and actually have nothing to do with fraud.

[Mr.P]

When we were awarded the savings part of pension credit we had £2000 savings (the only reason we got it). This has now whittled away to just £200! So, without realising it, we have committed fraud because we didn't declare this. Having only just looked into it, not having realised before.

 

You will NOT be penalised for reducing your savings to £200. The DWP do not care how little you have left from the original declared £2000 or what it was spent on. They would only be interested in savings over £6000 and any undeclared earnings.

 

If the suspected fraud, it would be an interview under caution. A compliance interview is (usually) a routine and random check to see if they have the correct details and (sometimes) that you are claiming all you are entitled to.

[mpbdsnu]

Thanks all, you have put my mind at rest a little.

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I agree with the guys, a compliance interview is hardly ever as scary as it sounds. Please have a read around the forum about people who have seen compliance and you find ones that have been updated to say that everything was OK and people were worrying about nothing.

 

HB

[mpbdsnu]

Well that wasn't as painful as I thought it would be. She wasn't interested that our savings had reduced - only if we had over £10,000. There will be a slight decrease in payment however as my wife's private pension increased last April by a few pounds, and we should have declared that.

[mpbdsnu]

Actually, looking at what my wife's pension was before we made the claim it went up quite a bit, so it looks like we will lose quite a bit, so not all good at all!

[wanton]

Actually, looking at what my wife's pension was before we made the claim it went up quite a bit, so it looks like we will lose quite a bit, so not all good at all!

 

 

 

I presume from your comments that neither of you is at least 65 years of age?

 

 

For those where one or both are 65 or older, the Pension Service set what is known as an 'Assessed Income Period' that normally expires after 5 years. During those 5 years if your pension went up by £1000 a week or if you were left £1,000,000 by way of an inheritance, you would still get the full Pension Credit as you are not required to disclose any increase in savings or income.

 

 

Unfortunately, this will be coming to an end in about 2 years time, where Pension Credit claimants, no matter what age they are MUST notify any increase or decrease in income/pensions immediately and if their savings go above £10,000.

That is going to be great fun for those, like us, that have multiple pensions (8 in our case) that all increase at different rates and at different times of the year. Any changes in tax deductions will also have to be notified. We have different tax codes for 6 of those pensions that seem to change with the wind every few months!!!!!

 

 

Trying to keep track of the changes that many pensioners will have in their income and subsequent reductions/increases in their Pension Credit payments is going to be a logistical nightmare. When and if we get to our 90's I doubt very much that we will have the ability.

Edited September 11, 2014 by wanton

[mpbdsnu]

I am 59 next month and my wife is 66 in December, I don't know if that makes any difference?

[wanton]

I am 59 next month and my wife is 66 in December, I don't know if that makes any difference?

 

 

 

If that is the case, then as from your wife's 65th birthday there should have been a review and an Assessed Income Period should have been set for up to 5 years. Was a review undertaken by the Pension Service? last December? Having that AIP in place, the amount of Pension Credit, beit Guaranteed and/or/both Savings Credit will remain fixed for that 5 years.

On the latest Pension Credit award letter, it should say if an AIP is in place. If it isn't you are entitled to appeal against that decision as from December 2013.

[mpbdsnu]

No such Assessed Income Period has been set up! Yesterdays meeting was the first contact we have had since my wife was first awarded pension credit a year ago.

[mpbdsnu]

I have checked on the original award letter (the only one we have) and there is no mention of an AIP being in place.

[wanton]

There should be a part of that letter (it is generally about 6/8 pages long) that tells you what you have been awarded and (it has to be Guaranteed Pension credit) the section is normally on page 2 at the top headed Assessed Income Period. It should say whether it has been awarded or not.

 

 

The rest of the letter details how the award has been calculated.

[mpbdsnu]

Definitely no mention of an AIP. We do have more than one letter, but I have just thoroughly checked all of them.

 

 

The original award letter just stated guaranteed pension credit in October 2013. We then received a further award letter in December stating we also will be getting savings pension credit and yes there is a breakdown of the payments on both but nothing about AIP.

Edited September 12, 2014 by mpbdsnu

[wanton]

Definitely no mention of an AIP. We do have more than one letter, but I have just thoroughly checked all of them.

 

 

The original award letter just stated guaranteed pension credit in October 2013. We then received a further award letter in December stating we also will be getting savings pension credit and yes there is a breakdown of the payments on both but nothing about AIP.

 

Then I would be bringing it to the attention of the Pension Service.

Where one or both parties to a Pension Credit Claim reaches 65, the Pension Service having carried out the '65th birthday review' and have made an award for Guaranteed Pension Credit, they MUST set an Assessed Income Period unless there is a very limited good reason not to.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/284304/foi-636-2014.pdf

 

 

 

Well that wasn't as painful as I thought it would be. She wasn't interested that our savings had reduced - only if we had over £10,000. There will be a slight decrease in payment however as my wife's private pension increased last April by a few pounds, and we should have declared that.

 

With an AIP being set from Dec 2013, any increase in any pension in April 2014 is NOT reportable and will NOT affect the level of GPC you receive.

 

 

Personally my first question of them is ' On what grounds are you relying in stating that we are not entitled to an AIP following my wife's 65th birthday on the ** December 2013?'

 

 

As I have said before we have 8 pensions that all increase at different rates and at different times, but none of these increases need be notified. Indeed when I was 60 and my wife 65, we had an AIP in place for just under 5 years (until my 65th birthday) and 6 of those pensions increased at the compound rate of 5% per annum which never affected what we received via the Pension Credit. We don't currently have an AIP in place because I told the Pension Service that within the next 12 months we will inherit approx. £140,000 - but that is another story.

[mpbdsnu]

Thank you very much for that. I shall get my wife to question them accordingly.

[mpbdsnu]

Having thought about it a bit more, in December when my wife turned 65 she would have been on a lower rate of private pension as it went up because of tax changes in April. So she would have been stuck on the lower rate for 5 years so I don't know that would have been such a good idea!

[anmarj]

although your wife is over 65, you are under 60 and therefore cannot have an AIP until you turn 60

 

www independentage org guides guide 2 pension credit

 

 

An 'Assessed Income Period' is not made if

you are part of a couple and one of you is under 60.

 

that is why you don't have one. This was the orignal woman state pension age but was not changed when they increased it.

Edited September 12, 2014 by anmarj

[mpbdsnu]

Ah, that makes things clearer, thank you.