Post work programme support - Your experiences?

[Piano Cube]

Cheers Mr.P, I've fended off a first attempt by them to refer me to a CWP and I'll stick to my guns, thanks for the info.

 

I don't know how in all honesty they could think it would benefit me, especially after looking at the criteria for the JCP Path.

 

Third meeting today and had to correct the advisor about the "35 Hours, I had to spend job seeking." I don't know how many times I'm going to have to correct them but hopefully they'll get the message that I'm not playing!

[Chester6]

I don't believe it's about benefitting you

They have a process they must follow which includes forced labour and they ignore any inconvenient rules or courses and you must comply they think

[Piano Cube]

Hope someone can help me or at least point me in the right direction, I’m still learning about this and want to be fully prepared.

 

My current position is that I’m post Work Programme and signed the Claimant Commitment without knowing the implications. I’ve got a relatively easy CC, and I’m getting it changed next appointment so that I don’t have to login daily to UJM. Searches are possible without logging in and I’m printing screen grabs of me logged in with the calendar up every day as proof that I’m doing that.

 

There are no exact targets as in “Apply for 6 jobs a week” just says “reasonable” so I’ve got a print of the CJSA/1814/2007 should a doubt arise.

 

Several questions for you guys, point me in the right direction if I’ve missed it as I’ve got a dozen PDFs to read through over the weekend.

 

1 - Advisor still doesn’t have the exit report from the WP and said it was my responsibility to acquire it. I thought the exit report was used to fairly determine which path you were put on. As I was pressured into CWP and refused, could this be grounds for complaint?

 

2 - Asked my Advisor for full name and position, only got the first name, and the first name of the manager. Are they all like Sting with just one name?

 

3 - Travel expenses. Paid at the end of the week or on viewing the bus ticket?

 

4 - Time taken using the PCs at the Jobcentre. Advisor is saying 30/45 mins before the daily meeting and I noted today that the floor walker was noting sign in and sign out times, so just want to cover myself?

 

Any help is much appreciated, pc.

[Chester6]

The exit report should have been given to you and a copy sent to the sanction centre I believe

First name is because their actions can be so evil they don't want an attacks on the evil ones away from the sanction centre, last names makes IT easier to find them - I got told some of this as I made a complaint against a bully

The exit report is in theory used to aid them choose the best path for you but most exit reports are empty of anything useful or about the person and are pointless

[Mr.P]

1 - Advisor still doesn’t have the exit report from the WP and said it was my responsibility to acquire it. I thought the exit report was used to fairly determine which path you were put on. As I was pressured into CWP and refused, could this be grounds for complaint?

 

4 - Time taken using the PCs at the Jobcentre. Advisor is saying 30/45 mins before the daily meeting and I noted today that the floor walker was noting sign in and sign out times, so just want to cover myself?

 

I refer you to the DWP issued guidance on completion of exit reports contained in Chapter 10:

 

6. All Exit Reports must be completed and sent to Jobcentre Plus within 10 working

days of Jobcentre Plus having submitted their request for the Exit Report.

 

Consequences 100% compliance on the timely submission of Exit Reports (within

10 working days of Jobcentre Plus making a request for the Exit Report) is a

contractual requirement. Your Performance Manager will discuss with you any failure

to meet this target.

 

Your JCP adviser is wrong. Remind him/her that the WP provider is in breach of their contract by not sending the exit report to the JCP within the specified time frame and you require him/her to escalate it to the Third Party Contacts manager. You also have the option of initiating a formal complaint using the DWP complaint process - Ask your adviser for the relevant publication.

 

Using JCP Internet Access Devices - If you have reliable and regular internet access at home, I would regard forced use of IADs to be unreasonable unless you need to print "stuff" off and do not have a printer of your own*. Perhaps another point that should be renegotiated when the subject of Claimant Commitment is raised.

 

*) If the DWP are providing printing facilities from their computers, it is worth using them to print out documents to support your position (i.e. Chapter 10, Claimant Commitment training manual)

[jasta11]

Hope someone can help me or at least point me in the right direction, I’m still learning about this and want to be fully prepared.

 

There are no exact targets as in “Apply for 6 jobs a week” just says “reasonable” so I’ve got a print of the CJSA/1814/2007 should a doubt arise.

 

Yet according to their classroom training literature (links posted by me in my 'Claimant Commitment' thread on here), the CC is required to have clear and exact requirements of what is expected and not be vague or ambiguous.

 

Ask for it to be clarified - if they want 10 applications a week then it should say that so you know where you stand. We're supposed to do 'reasonable' jobsearch but what appears reasonable to one adviser might not be to another. I'm sure they've deliberately left out specifics so they can accuse us of not doing enough. Always make sure you show way, way too much evidence and play it safe.

[tfp]

Exit report....HA! I asked for mine from Ingeus about three times. I concluded it did not exist due to not being seen for weeks at a time and the fact that I saw more than half a dozen 'advisers'. How they can make out a report under such threadbare interaction escapes me. Hence the fact it is as probably as real as Nessie.

 

 

That said, other ex WP clients have told me their exit reports contained very little info, mostly of a generic nature.

[essexmat]

Do these reports state things like

 

"My client refused to take a job for 12 hours a week on minimum wage so I have concluded he/she is obstructive and not wanting to get back to work"

 

Of course what they fail to mention is for some of these people 12 hours even with added benefits available is not enough after travel and council tax and having to pay rent, not to mention they may be experienced managers who worked for companies earning in excess of £30k per annum plus bonuses. No, it is ALL the claimants fault and it is THEIR fault they were made redundant

[jasta11]

My exit report simply said 'Client is work ready'. As I'd already had 30+ years working life before I ever went to Ingeus I nominate this for the 'Stating The Obvious' prize.

 

Mind you, I'd already warned them before I left that if they claimed to have done anything they hadn't actually done there would be a massive complaint. I think they kept it very neutral

[Chester6]

Mine had my name and other generic info, said I was work ready I think but it also said my only barrier is unemployed

 

Talk about stating the obvious

[Piano Cube]

Brilliant info, cheers guys.

 

Has anyone recorded their meetings, audio or video? I'm thinking about it because they keep telling me wrong information and it would be handy to have it on tape.

 

Also thinking about getting a friend to accompany me just as a backup. Most of what the Advisors have to say so far has been incorrect.

[Lapsed Workaholic]

Ever since I found that my adviser had no qualms about lying to me and twisting everything I said to him I have been recording all appointments and interviews. I have caught them out in a lie several times. They don’t know it, yet. That’s why I look forward to my up-coming Tribunal Hearing. I will be insisting that the Judge adds perjury to maladministration.

I bought a small pocket sized digital recorder, under £50, I switch it on before entering DWP office., off when I get outside again. I keep it in my breast pocket where it easily picks up the conversation, sometimes I put it in the carrier bag I use to carry my papers and place it on the desk between us. When I get home I down-load the recording onto my computer, where it remains for future reference, if need be.

[jasta11]

I record everything too - caught a few of them making up guidance out of thin air so it was worth doing. I don't try and hide it either, I plonk my media player down on the desk between us when I sign on and always make a point of saying the adviser's name so it's on record. Got the Section 36 of the DP act paragraph learned by heart in case they ever say I can't record them.

 

Well worth doing by everyone. It's just sad that we have to do it at all but we need to protect ourselves from the people who are supposed to be 'helping'.

[omgomg]

Hi all,

 

I wonder if you could help me with some advice. I was claiming JSA and on the work programme. I signed off in 2013 due to illness and am now claiming ESA and awaiting WCA. I have attended WFIs via the phone. My Job Center rang recently and said that I have to attend a Mandatory Work Programme Completion Interview and have already said that I will have to go in to the office to see the Post Work Programme Advisor once a week. I explained that I am awaiting a WCA and she said it doesn't matter. Does anyone know whether what they are saying is correct or a mistake because in the last FOI request (November 2013) that is posted on Whatdotheyknow the guidance states that ESA claimants awaiting their initial WCA outcome should be offered a voluntary Work Programme Completion Interview. Is this still not the case or has the guidance changed?

 

Kind regards OMGOMG

[Lapsed Workaholic]

Hello OMG and welcome to the site. I hear you pleas to the Almighty for Divine Intervention and since He does not appear to be intervening personally, perhaps someone is blocking His registration, I thought I might take it upon myself to respond, unworthy as I am, if that is not too presumptuous.

 

Could you clarify whether or not you attended a Mandatory Work Programme Completion Interview when you signed off the WP in 2013, and when your WP attendance would have ended naturally if you had not signed off when you did?

 

Here is the Guidance that DWP gives to Work Programme Providers on how to deal with cases such as your own (Chapter 5 - WP Guidance):

 

Mandatory participant moves from JSA to ESA

32. Where you are notified that a mandatory JSA participant has ceased their requirements should be treated as the same as those of a Voluntary ESA participant until the outcome of the Work Capability Assessment (WCA)

 

This is what the Guidance says about Voluntary ESA (Chapter 2 – WP Guidance):

 

Voluntary participants - Voluntary participants are not required to take part and their participation remains on an entirely voluntary basis. You may not mandate voluntary participants to undertake activity.

 

So, as far as the Work Programme Provider is concerned, you need not take part in anything they might propose if you do not wish to do so.

 

In your case here, however, the request is to attend a Mandatory Work Programme Completion Interview at the Jobcentre, nothing to do with the WP Provider you have recently finished with. This interview is to determine your circumstances now that you have finished with WP and what, if any, the next steps should be.

 

Being, as you are now on ESA, it follows that you can’t be mandated to take part in any activity unless you do so voluntarily. I would expect that the interview you are being asked to attend would be to confirm your present circumstances and establish that you are now covered by the rules regarding voluntary participation in any activity. Not sure if attending an interview at JCP is exactly what is meant in the rule above as ‘activity’.

 

On the other hand attending the Jobcentre weekly after a Mandatory Work Programme Completion Interview could be said to be an activity that is covered by the voluntary rules and that is a question you could clarify during the interview that you are being asked to attend.

[biglesbo]

Hi aged 59

deformed hip fused spine arthritic knees

needles to say ile never play football again

retired by tesco ill health 2005 was om I B till healed by ATOS in 20012

apealed scorded 15 points ( so really lost )

E S A contributory 12 months

last 12 months income related E S A £20.80 pw ( due to a £60 tesco pension)

atended jobcentre once every 6 months uptil now

 

Was advised last week in order to continue recieving my £20.80 i had to attend some form of programme run by a private firm

This and i quote " is due to a change in the rules "

 

would this be correct

or as you state is it voluntary

------

was a bad interview as i pointed out it was pointles as i couldnt guarantee getting there or being able to participate if i was able to attend

i had to have my wife acompany to the jc

4 x 10 min waks 2x 40 min bus rides took me about 3/4 days to get back in control

not willing to put myself through it

 

regards Les

Edited February 28, 2015 by biglesbo
put wrong figure in

[Mr.P]

biglesbo: When you were claiming IB, were you in the Support Group ?

If so, then you should be a voluntary participant in the Work Programme regardless of the outcome of the ATOS assessment.

 

It would be worthwhile digging out your IB award letters and then having a read of https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/394681/wp-pg-chapter-2.pdf to see which group you fall in to.

 

If you find yourself in one of the mandatory groups, demand that the provider funds in full, a taxi both ways for yourself and your wife. Always good to have a witness/advocate at these sessions who can keep notes and record proceedings.

[biglesbo]

Hi

many thanks for replying

was on I B from 2005 to 2012 never even heard of the support group upto this point

in 2012 was asessed by ATOS got the usual zero points

went to tribunal 11 months later awarded 15 points

put onto contributory esa which lasts one year ( 11 months to tribunal plus 1 )

a month later put on income related ESA

 

 

regards Les

 

You can support ESA participants to apply for and take up work,

but you may not

mandate these participants to

apply for jobs, undertake medical treatment, take up work or unpaid work experience.