Do ATOS ask thorough medical questions or just basic?

[claire1981]

I have seen on youtube people claiming that ATOS only asked questions related to their immediate medical history (ie ignoring archived long term or non-diagnosed conditions) & didn't make a thorough evaluation. I've seen the point scoring system for mental/physical health (as I have problems in both) & assumed I would be asked all questions on it- to get a thorough evaluation & fair score. But from what I've heard they don't ask these questions & so most people have virtually no opportunity to get the points they are entitled to. Instead of ATOS asking all questions, people claimed ATOS apparently observe behavior & get away with claiming they did not witness the problem & so can score them 0 points. But in reality you have no chance of showing that you can't do the things on the lists & so would need to be asked them! Do they really not ask?

 

DWP want me to attend an ATOS assessment, but I think my ESA would be taken away if I do. As most of my problems are not diagnosed. Those that are eg aspergers syndrome, are not recognized as proper condition- even though have caused me lifelong extreme difficulty. My GP has finally done letter stating I need home visit due to depression/phobias & I sent this to DWP, but haven't heard from ATOS. I also requested any assessment be recorded.

 

I couldn't attend ATOS in Feb & my ESA has been reduced by £56.90 fortnight since- even though they sent letter accepting good reason for not attending. So not sure why they sanction me? They claim they won't put it right until been to ATOS assessment. But it's not my fault ATOS haven't given me a home appointment & I have difficulty phoning people. I don't know what to do, I can never get through to DWP anyway & they never reply to letters? I'm not sure if it's wise to write to ATOS as this may be seen as me consenting to ATOS doing an assessment, for which it seems they will just automatically score me 0. Does anyone have any experience of this please?

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I'm afraid you need to go to the assessment, or your benefit could stop.

 

A few people here know about home visits, hopefully they will spot this and answer you.

 

This may sound cynical on my part, but Atos aren't really interested in your medical conditions. What they want to know is rather patronisingly what you are able to do, not what you can't do. The assessment will be about discovering what you're capable of and innocent sounding questions are used to build up a picture about you.

 

I'll post a link to leemack's stikky about the assessment, it should help you.

 

My best, HB

[honeybee13]

Here's the stikky link.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?287253-esa-medicals

 

HB

[fletch70]

When I had my assesment every single question was based on what I had written in my form. I did have the opportunity to add anything but you need to make sure it is recorded by the assesor.

[**Margaret**]

:claire1981:

 

Jobcentreplus will certainly terminate your employment n support allowance if you don't consent to an Atos assessment, unless they accept you've good cause for another 'failure to attend' or Atos send written confirmation that it's no longer necessary.

 

Are you able to tell us exactly what happened following your 'failure to attend' last February? Was the appointment for an initial claim or reassessment? Was it a new claim linked by less than twelve weeks to a previous one? BF223 letter asking why you didn't attend?

 

Jobcentreplus should forward the letter about a home visit to Atos but I wouldn't rely on it. Best to send another copy (via recorded delivery or at least get proof of posting) directly to Atos at the same address you sent your ESA50 to. No harm in asking, but if you can visit your doctor/keep hospital appointments Atos are unlikely to agree a home visit. Does your doctor visit you at home?

 

Have you requested, on your ESA50 or in a separate letter, that your assessment be audio recorded? If not, send a written request with the doctor's letter about the home visit, as evidence that you've asked for a recorded assessment. There's more info about audio recorded assessments at;

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/work-capability-assessment-audio-recording-of-face-to-face-assessments-faqs

 

As Atos don't do reasonable adjustments for those of us who have issues with phones, are useless with third party authority, and very rarely answer letters, it's really important to keep a paper trail in case you need evidence to argue another 'failure to attend'. Paper trails have got me out of two alleged 'failures to attend'. One of them, nine months after the event! Sometimes it's less stressful to cave in and get a friend to phone so long as you're with him/her and can cope with giving third party authority over the phone. This works with Jobcentreplus as well.

 

And to answer your original question, in addition to what :honeybee13:'s already said;

 

Most of what you've seen on YouTube accurately reflects a work capability assessment. There's nowt vaguely medical about it. It's a legal test of whether or not the claimant can perform prescribed activities (descriptors) that are relevant to a workplace. For example, if you can sit at a table to eat a meal then move to the sofa to watch television you can sit at an office desk. Get to Atos and talk to the assessor = no problems travelling to work or interacting with colleagues. Try to keep the assessor to your pace and say everything you consider important whether you're asked about it or not. Ignore the next question until the assessor's finished typing in the previous one. And remember that more claimants 'pass' the test (are found to have limited capability for work) than 'fail' it.

 

Sincerely, Margaret.

Edited August 9, 2013 by **Margaret**

[reallymadwoman]

You can email ATOS at . I'm on my way out at the moment but will try to look in later with some more information for you.

[claire1981]

Thank you for the replies.

 

I was not sent anything asking why I didn't attend ATOS (I phoned them on the day). I kept phoning JCP, but they claimed I had already explained over phone to both, so no need. I wrote to them with reasons- but they claimed not to receive it or have record of calls (they often lose record of calls/letters)! My records show they only classed me as having 'good cause' due to classifying me as 'vulnerable' for not responding?

 

I had been called to assessment 6 months after my support worker had filled in ESA50 (which I couldn't fill in myself & think was not done fully). It's now almost a year since that ESA50 was filled in, so I've asked to do a new one. JCP said I need to fill out on new ESA50 all the problems not attending ATOS has caused me eg distress & money reduced. I'm also going to send it recorded, with a copy of my doctors letter stating need home assessment. And I will note on it that I would like it recorded.

 

I don't go out & don't visit my GP. I used to only go out to my GP, as he refused to visit or send fitness for work statements in post. But since I found this was being used against me, I've not been out at all since 2 weeks before assessment was due in February. It took much begging over phone to get GP to send statement in post, of which he has yet to send my latest one & it has gone over due date. So I don't get to see him, but even when I did he would ignore the problems I would report & just label it all under depression/anxiety.

 

Now I have access to the descriptors for the point scoring system, it gives me a reminder of the things I need to list, as it was easy to forget before.

[claire1981]

I heard that ATOS will only acknowledge problems related to conditions declared by a qualified specialist! People were reporting that they had listed severe difficulties on ESA50, but ATOS had not inquired/acknowledged them. Simply because they had no diagnosed condition or nothing listed by new doctor on current medial history that could cause the problems.

 

I think this was also put up on gov.uk site, stating that only problems reported that relate to a diagnosed condition will now be accepted?

[**Margaret**]

:reallymadwoman:

Thanx for reminding me (again) about electronic mails.

Feeling very , Margaret.

[claire1981]

I emailed ATOS but they just said that I would need to phone the appointment line & make an appointment! So they clearly didn't bother reading the email! I can't even complain to them about this, as they also put that they are the complaints department! My thoughts confirmed- they really couldn't care less!

 

I'm thinking of filling out my new ESA50 & listing all my conditions in Latin, to confuse them. The irony is that this is something the medical profession does to confuse us, but since they don't seem to have any qualified medical personnel...

[reallymadwoman]

Email them again and say if they don't make the reasonable adjustment of allowing you to communicate via email you will be considering a claim under the Equalities Act. That usually frightens them into doing what you ask.

[rebel11]

Hi claire1981

 

The whole system is designed to find you 'Fit for work' regardless of your conditions. Having established that and knowing that the HCP & DWP will ignore all everything you say, the best course of action is plan for your assessment.

 

1) Make sure you ask for the 'Assessment' to be Recorded,

2) Take someone to the 'Assessment' a friend or relative, to take notes,

3) Take a copy of your form to the 'Assessment' so you can refer to it, to jog your memory,

4) Take your meds to the 'Assessment', a list of your meds with the side effects, that's so the HCP notes them,

 

Because it's being taped, you can maybe crosscheck what they are typing into the system, with the answers they are actually giving.

 

Don't give up.

[claire1981]

Thanks for the info & support.

 

My GP has done a letter stating that I don't go out & would not be able to get to an assessment. So I'm hoping they will keep their promise now I've managed to obtain this. Hoping it means I'm entitled to a home assessment. Though not worked out how they would get in- as I have a front door could leave unlocked. But also a communal self locking intercom door that would need someone to buzz them in (I live alone bedridden) & never speak to neighbors due to aspergers, so couldn't guarantee they would even be in to open it. As I don't get any visitors (only mother with key) I wouldn't be able to let them in. My mother would be caring for my child at her home & doesn't wish to communicate with ATOS.

 

I have no one to attend with me, as due to aspergers syndrome I have never wanted any friends & have none. My support worker helped me for over 5 years, but left last year- stating only suppose to help up to 2 years.

 

As I've not been out in over 6 months, not even to my GP, I've been unable to obtain any meds. Despite writing with my problems- got no reply from GP (just sick notes stating depression/anxiety). Though even when I did manage to get to GP, the meds were far too soft in my opinion & did nothing (tried dozens).

 

I have learned lesson about asking for it to be taped though. As has been pointed out here, they seem to use ESA50 against us- my support worker didn't put want/need it recorded. So they got away with refusing to acknowledge my request & said they had ESA50 as evidence of my needs- which didn't specify any need to record it.

[**Margaret**]

:claire1981:

 

, from what you've written I can't work out why you're now on assessment rate employment n support if you were previously in receipt of £100ish per week. The only possibility I can see is that your claim was closed following two 'failures to attend' and you've reclaimed on the basis of a deterioration in your condition.

 

Neither can I work out whether you've been asked to complete another ESA50, or received an appointment for an assessment which you've got to contact them about cos you want it at home. Unfairly Atos have the final say about a home visit. You need to pester your doctor for the Med 3 (unfit) note cos Jobcentreplus won't release your next payment until they receive it.

 

The regs you've referred to can be found at;

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/3096/pdfs/uksi_20123096_en.pdf

Amendments of parts 5 and 6.

 

And there's a guide to completing an ESA50 for mental health conditions and some tips about supportive evidence at;

 

http://rethink.org/living-with-mental-illness/money-issues-benefits-employment/work-capability-assessment

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

Edited August 11, 2013 by **Margaret**

[**Margaret**]

:claire1981:

 

I've noticed from another thread that you've been awarded the middle rate care component of disability living. If the two benefits are your only income does your employment n support include a severe disability premium? Or does your Mum claim carers?

 

Margaret.

Edited August 11, 2013 by **Margaret**

[claire1981]

I was getting DLA & receiving Income support as my child was under 5. When my child turned 5 Jobcentre said I needed to claim ESA. MY support worker filled in form for ESA. I was called to attend ATOS 6 months after ESA50 was filled in. I was on a rate of £314.70 fortnight- which was actually aprox £12 less than the Income Support rate I was getting.

 

I phoned ATOS & stated I needed a home assessment, but GP refused to fax ATOS as matter of policy. After being unable to attend this first ever ATOS assessment in February, my money was reduced to £258.40 fortnight from May onward without warning & despite receiving a letter from DWP that week accepting I had good cause for not attending. I phoned DWP & was told I needed to book another appointment with ATOS. I explained that since they will just force me to attend again & I can't- it would be pointless. I have not booked another appointment- which is probably why money is still reduced.

 

Since it has now been a year since ESA50 was complete, I'm hoping they will accept me sending in another one- done properly not filled in by my support worker who seems to have been working against me also. Though not sure if they will then refuse to back date money owed already.

 

My problem is that without being able to go out & see specialists, my problems are just automatically attributed to mental health only. And mental health seems to be a category that is seen by assessors as the category containing lazy shirkers. Everything physical that I put just seems to be ignored.

[claire1981]

:Claire1981:

 

I've noticed from another thread that you've been awarded the middle rate care component of disability living. If the two benefits are your only income does your employment n support include a severe disability premium? Or does your Mum claim carers?

 

Margaret.

 

I did apply for carers allowance but don't know if money includes it? I get £296 month DLA (as middle rate care/low rate mobility). I did declare all my benefits on forms when I applied for DLA, which at time included Income Support of £328? fortnight- but was later switched to ESA (£314.70 fortnight).

 

But my ESA was reduced in May to £258.40 fortnight. The DWP staff said this was the disability premium & it was being reduced until attend ATOS- they didn't say it was carers allowance? If this is the carers allowance that they are stopping how could they do that when DLA claim was accepted until July? I'm so glad I didn't hire a carer, as I would be sh**ing bricks now!

 

I've also just discovered that my DLA award states they will ask me again before 21/7/13, if I wish to still claim DLA. But they have not- so presumably this may be stopped altogether soon, unless I call them to see why not asked.

 

Honestly the system is designed to reap rewards by using the severe disabilities of its service users against them. We are the ones least likely to remember renewals etc, yet it's taken for granted that we can & we must remember just to continue hard fought for claims.

Edited August 11, 2013 by claire1981

[**Margaret**]

:claire1981:

 

Forget what I asked about carers/severe disability premium. It's clear from your figures that your employment n support includes the severe disability premium and it's one or the other. You can't have both.

 

What's far from clear is why Jobcentreplus paid the work related activity component of employment n support before a determination about your capability for work. It may be that there's some transitional provision for lone parents closing a claim for income support to claim employment n support. Without looking it up I don't know.

 

For your situation Atos won't send you a new ESA50 and Jobcentreplus won't want to. However, if you've access to a printer there's nothing to stop you downloading one from the internet. One copy to Atos with the doctor's letter and keep a copy to give to the assessor, just in case the first copy gets lost like. S/he and the decision maker have to accept it as evidence.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/esa-50-limited-capability-for-work-questionnaire

 

Among my self-help we do it all the time cos of Atos ever lengthening backlogs.

 

Margaret.

[claire1981]

:claire1981:

 

Forget what I asked about carers/severe disability premium. It's clear from your figures that your employment n support includes the severe disability premium and it's one or the other. You can't have both.

 

What's far from clear is why Jobcentreplus paid the work related activity component of employment n support before a determination about your capability for work. It may be that there's some transitional provision for lone parents closing a claim for income support to claim employment n support. Without looking it up I don't know.

 

For your situation Atos won't send you a new ESA50 and Jobcentreplus won't want to. However, if you've access to a printer there's nothing to stop you downloading one from the internet. One copy to Atos with the doctor's letter and keep a copy to give to the assessor, just in case the first copy gets lost like. S/he and the decision maker have to accept it as evidence.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/esa-50-limited-capability-for-work-questionnaire

 

Among my self-help we do it all the time cos of Atos ever lengthening backlogs.

 

Margaret.

 

 

Thanks.

 

I know I can't have both, but I thoughts that carers allowance was disability premium & that it can't be stopped until end of DLA claim otherwise unpaid carers could sue clients?

 

I did ask DWP why it was work group rate, as I felt I should be in support group & wondered why I seemed to have been pre-placed prior to any assessment. I think I remember querying why I also started receiving the premium & then it stopped. The DWP said it was due to being lone parent & asked me then if I had failed to attend an ATOS assessment. At that time I hadn't been asked to attend ATOS & money was reinstated. But few months later I was called to atend ATOS & after I didn't attend it was reduced again. I called again & they refused to reinstate. They claimed I hadn't attended recent ATOS appointment & they are not obliged to pay extra without being assessed & 'passing'.

 

DWP agreed to send another ESA50 on Friday & I got it Saturday. But only because I told them I use voice recognition program & my computers VR program may not be compatible with their online form. All other times I asked for one they said they would send one, but never did! DWP told me to send it to them? Do you think I should send it to ATOS? I know DWP will send it to ATOS but I thought that they keep a copy of ESA50 if sent to them first- which could be useful if appeal?

[**Margaret**]

:claire1981:

 

, not doing very well here. Assuming you closed your claim for income support to submit an entirely new claim for employment n support I can't find anything to explain why you were awarded the work related activity component (equivalent of the disability premium) pre determination. And if you're in the middle of conversion from one to the other it makes even less sense, cos income support should have been paid pending a determination. Should the eventual determination be that you've limited capability for work or work related activity you'll be due arrears from week fourteen of a new claim.

 

Good luck with the ESA50. As it's an 'official' one it'll probably find it's way, via Jobcentreplus, to your ESA55 file at Atos. But I'd also have a spare copy for the assessor in case it goes walkabout.

 

Margaret.

[claire1981]

Thank you. Sorry to go on about the same thing so much.

 

It was jobcentre that made me close my claim for Income support, as my child was over 5. I had started getting IS for my child & later this changed due to severe disability, which I explained to them. But still they said that I must go over to ESA as my payments would stop in 2 weeks (not be consecutive) if I did not fill out an ESA claim right away. My support worker filled an ESA50 out for me over a year ago & my payments continued as normal, apart from a few mess ups & going down by few pounds.

 

They have my past ESA50 but apparently ignored all problems on it that stated I don't go out etc. They called me in when knew I couldn't attend center & seem to be refusing to acknowledge GP letter- stating I can't get to the center.

 

I have a horrible feeling that if I do send in this new ESA50, it may be seen as a new claim & they can disregard not paying me properly for the past year. I was hoping that they would eventually backdate the arrears they owe me, once they provided suitable assessment. I've not been told anything about how I stand if filling in new ESA50. But unless I have an updated ESA50 it seems they are refusing to acknowledge my true/current situation & it would probably cost me my ESA claim completely.

 

This is not a new claim but they completely refuse to acknowledge problems that my support worker did list, just because specialist put me on waiting list for several months for 1 issue to be diagnosed- so could not put diagnosis (just problem). I think I may end up forfeiting money I'm owed from past year, just because of them only going by now outdated ESA50 & Not taking into account or responding to further evidence I send. It was them that made me wait much longer than should have been to be offered any assessment. The they refuse to respond to me asking them to reconsider their alleged need to have a face to face assessment.

[Nystagmite]

Can I just say (because you seem confused) that carers allowance is given to someone to care for a disabled person, and not given to the disabled person.

[claire1981]

Can I just say (because you seem confused) that carers allowance is given to someone to care for a disabled person, and not given to the disabled person.

 

I was a little confused because when I applied, they asked if I wanted carers allowance paid to me or directly to my carer (I had listed my Mother as my carer- but they don't pay her, I have to). But I guess that they had added it to my main benefit, when I said I wanted it paid to me- not quite sure. Not really sure of what money I was getting at the time. I just have to rely on them to get it right, as I have poor memory & can't afford a real carer- but they often mess up.