ESA tribunal help please

[leesa786]

Hi

I am new to this post. I claimed ESA in feb 2012 and went for my medical may 2012 came out with 0 points. I have severe depression and this got worse round january 2012 onwards I have 3 daughters and single before that I was working.

At that time I was hiding my depression from my girls and I knew something was wrong I was getting so depressed I became suicidal but still very good at hiding it. I went to the doctors and was put on anti depressants and sent to a Mental Health Psychiatrist (emergency appt) was told I had severe depression and low mood.

i received my ESA50 but as I was so low I couldnt even go out for help I had no option but to get my 14yr old daughter to fill it in but still never mentioned m depression still trying to hide it. She filled it in as I never wanted her to know about my depression I left the mental health questions blank never even got her to tick the boxes.

I went for my ATOS examination in may 2012 and explained it (my 18r old daughter went with me but still trying to hide my problems I never took her into the room)I told the nurse everything and was in tears. (she was just a robot) on the notes that I received she has stated that I suffer depression and

does not go to supermarket because of feeling low. daughter will go and do food shopping as unable to face going out as thinks everyone is staring at her

daughter accompanies her everywhere

states no friends and her family disowned her after getting divorced

needed help to complete ESA50 due to feeling low helped by daughter

Has no problem using phone

Unable to make GP appts due to feeling low is helped by daughter

bills are paid D/D

 

Anyway the problem is I explained everything to the nurse as I cant go out she has made some of the notes but left alot out was asked if I watch TV i said no I cant concentrate.

I got 0 points and then asked for a reconsideration again as I cant go out I got my daughter to help write it (my health problems were being picked up on by my daughters)(they are very suportive now)

I appealed and have my date for 25th feb 13 and as I still cant go out and still suffer with depression I havnt got any help from anyone.

 

I have been told to go to welfare rights or cab but i cant do it (its so hard to explain)

 

There are a lot of other mistakes the ATOS nurse wrote

Sleeps well (no i told here i dont sleep and on sleeping tablets)

no problems doing housework (no i dont I dont have the energy)

no problems making meals (no my daughter makes them as I lose interest and due to my memory I have done a lot of silly things that have been dangerous burning myself cooker was hot and I just went to pick the top up to wash not realising even though in hy head I knew it was hot)

 

I am so panicky and stressed I dont know what to do I have had help to write a submission and would be so grateful if someone could look at it for me please.

 

I have seen my dr (was a different one) no help he said he will write a letter but I dont know. It is so hard for me to ask for letters as I feel so embarrased and think people are judging me all the time and thinking bad that I am a failure.

Please can someone help

 

so sorry for the long post but Im so desperate

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG. I hope we can help you.

 

In case it's helplful, I'll post up a link to the forum sticky on appeals and tribunals for you. But if you already have a submission, it's possible that it won't tell you much.

 

I don't know if anyone is about to look over your document. Is it very long and would you be able to post it here, minus your personal information?

 

My best, HB

[honeybee13]

Here's the link.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?251737-Appealing-or-going-to-a-Tribunal-Some-useful-information%282-Viewing%29-nbsp

 

HB

[leesa786]

Hi HB

Thank you Ive tried to post a copy there but it says thread closed. or am I doing something wrong.

sorry for this I just feel Im a nusience

[Nystagmite]

Hi HB

Thank you Ive tried to post a copy there but it says thread closed. or am I doing something wrong.

sorry for this I just feel Im a nusience

 

You can't post in that thread; as it's closed. You can post it in your thread though.

[honeybee13]

Yes, it's closed because it's an information sticky, not a discussion one.

 

If you have a document, post it here on your thread.

 

HB

[honeybee13]

Snap, Nystagmite. You must type faster than me!

 

HB

[leesa786]

Hi

Thank you (it just takes me time to understand and have to do it several times before i understand)SORRY

 

1. The report states that pg 37 that I have bladderleakage in large amounts every day and use incontinence pads. Does not have to clean themselves and changeclothing following incontinence.

 

At the medical Istated that I do have to clean and change my clothes following incontinence atleast 4/5 times a week.

 

 

 

2. Conditions Medically Identified - Depression

 

Pg 37 The reportstates that I have never had thoughts of self harm and have never been referredto a specialist.

 

At the medical Istated that I have severe depression and been referred to a Mental HealthPsychiatrist. In my reconsideration I stated I am seeing my mental healthspecialist and have been given more appointments. (pg14) I also stated I havethoughts of self harm and I have attempted to commit suicide also stated thisagain on my reconsideration letter (pg12).

 

 

 

3. Pg 37 Social History

 

The reportstates that I got a lift which took 20 minutes and I entered the examinationcentre alone but travelled to the examination centre with their friend.

 

The medicalexaminer asked as we were going to the room if I had come with someone I statedthat a friend has given me and my daughter (xxxxxxxx) a lift. On arrival my daughter helped register me atthe reception and we sat down with our backs to the reception. I was called inby the medical examiner and stated to her that my daughter is going to wait forme. I did not want my daughter to go inwith me as I didn’t want her to know about my mental health at that time. At the end of the examination the medicalexaminer took me to the door and said I had to go and showed me the way out. Ifelt intimidated and felt I couldn’t go back to the waiting area. About20 minutes later my daughter went to the reception and she made enquiries. She was told they will check and then told Ihad finished the examination and left. xxxxx quickly left the building to lookfor me and found me sitting on the wall outside the building upset and crying Ibecame very confused not knowing what I should do. The medical examiner knew I was upset and intears (Pg 52 bottom) but let me leave the building without seating me in thewaiting room, till I had calmed down.

 

 

 

4. Pg 39 the report stated that; Usually sleepswell. No problem getting up. No problemsmaking meals. No problems doinghousework.

 

I stated to themedical examiner that I don’t sleep and the most I sleep is 1 or 2 hours anight. I told the medical examiner that I struggle toget up and get dressed and have to be motivated by my daughter. I do not make meals myself my daughter makesthen and tries to motivate me to do little bits.

 

 

 

5. Pg 38 Thereport states that bills are paid Direct Debit

 

I stated thatthe majority of bills are paid by Direct Debit but the gas and electric aretop-up and my daughter goes out to top the gas and electric as I am unable togo out due to anxiety and panic attacks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

6. Pg 37 and Pg 38 Unable to make appointments withher G.P and is helped by her daughter. Has no problem using phone.

 

I stated that Iwas unable to use the phone due to having to speak to someone as it makes me anxiousand scared that is why my daughter has to make my G.P appointments and answerthe phone.

 

 

 

7. Pg 51/52Mental State

 

Increased Seating: Absent

 

Activity Rocking: Rockingpresent

 

Arousal: Tense

 

Mood: Ideas of self harm: noideas of self harm

 

Thoughts: Delusions: no delusions

 

I told the medical examinerthat I do have thoughts of self harm and I have tried to self harm and I dohave delusions which have been reported to my GP since March 2012 This wasmentioned again in my reconsideration (pg 13/14). I was also sweating during the assessment andhad to wipe my face frequently.

 

 

 

 

 

I have problemswith my bladder as I am unable to control it. I wear incontinence pads but Istill get leakage from them especially after I have a drink leading to havingto have a wash and change of clothes. Ihave to remove them sometimes as wearing them constantly gives me a lot orperspiration which leads to a very bad skin breakout. When I do not wear them I have large leakagewhich is uncontrollable and only realise I have leakage when I get wet whichleads to having to have a wash and a change of clothes. This is on a regular basis minimum of 4 timesa week. When I have my period it is moredifficult as I am unable to wear the pads and the sanitary towels together andthis makes me having to wash and change my clothes more often, this cansometimes be up to 3 times a day.

 

 

 

I believe I fillthe following descriptors:

 

Absence of lossof control leading to extensive evacuation of the bowel and/bladder, other thanenuresis (bed wetting) despite the presence of any aids or adaptations normallyused.

 

a)At least oncea month experiences:

 

i)loss ofcontrol leading to extensive evacuation of bowel and/or voiding of the bladder;or

 

ii)substantialleakage of the contents of a collecting device sufficient to require cleaningand a change in clothing 15 point

 

While cooking I havefrequently left the cooker on and walked away without switching it off. I haveput a dishcloth over the cooker which has caught fire and has damaged thewall. On

 

several occasions I have been ironing and Ihave left the iron face down on the ironing board

 

and gone off to have a bath and my daughterhas smelt the burning and switched the iron off. This happens on a regular basis. I had a Doctor’s appointment and my daughtertook me, I walked straight into the road and was missed by inches by acar. This has happened on severaloccasions. My daughter is always with mewhen I go to the Doctor`s and has tight hold of my arm.

 

 

 

I believe I fill the followingdescriptors:

 

Awareness of everyday hazards(such as boiling water or sharp objects)

 

c) Reducedawareness of everyday hazards leads to significant risk of:

 

i) injury toself or others; or

 

ii)damage toproperty or possessions such that they occasionally require supervision tomaintain safety. 6 point

 

If my daughter has an afterschool club and is late coming home from the time she usually gets home I startto get angry and have panic attacks and start to think that she has been takenby my ex husband and I will never see her again or there has been anaccident. I start to cry and sit next tothe front door waiting for her. Thisstops the rest of my day as she has a set time for her dinner and doing herhomework and being late changes the rest of the day. If I have a doctor`s appointment that gets meangry and upset as I have to get changed and I’m not able to do it in my owntime and this really depresses me. My daughter makes my doctor’s appointmentsand avoids telling me beforehand because if I know in advance I start to panicand get anxious knowing I have to go out.

 

 

 

I feel I fill the followingdescriptors:

 

Coping with change

 

c)cannot cope with minorunplanned change (such as the timing of an appointment on the day to day lifeis made significantly more difficult. 6points

 

 

 

I never go out alone even to theplaces that I am familiar with as I get confused. I have

 

walked into roads and nearly been knocked over this puts me and othersin danger. I have

 

panic attack and during these attacks I start to scream and shout wheremy behaviour

 

becomes reckless and I could hurt myself and others. I also wonder off forgetting where I

 

wasgoing and rarely go out even if my daughters asks me to go with them. On one occasion

 

my daughter persuaded me to get out of thehouse and meet her at the local supermarket which is 10 minutes away. I got confused and ended up on the bus toBirmingham City Centre. I had a panic attackand managed to call my daughter who came and picked me up. On another occasion my daughter took me out andas we were going home I started walking towards my previous house I had beenliving at in 2002 which is 9 years ago. The only time I manage to get out is ifmy daughter makes me a G.P appointment and has to take me as I tend to wonderoff forgetting where I am going.

 

 

 

Ibelieve I fill the following descriptors:

 

Getting Out

 

c) Is unable to get to a specified place withwhich the claimant is familiar, without being

 

accompanied by another person. 9points

 

 

 

 

 

I do not socialise with otherpeople or my family as I was told by them I brought shame to the family. I was disowned when I got a divorce because myex husband mentally and physically abused me and he was accused of rape by myniece who was under age. I had thesocial services threatening to take my daughters away, if I stayed with him, soI had no choice but to leave. I havebeen in hiding since then, I was threatened by my ex husband that he wouldkidnap my daughters and take them away from me; it was the police that advisedme to move away. I now feel he has spiesand they are watching me. I havesuffered personal problems with my eldest daughter and I feel that everyone iswatching and judging me and blaming me for everything now and it’s my entirefault. Even thinking about having tosocialise I start to panic which makes me shake and feel sick and I can’t breathewhich brings on my asthma and need to use my inhaler. Even writing this piece is making me anxiousand sick.

 

 

 

Ibelieve I fill the following descriptors:

 

Copingwith social engagement

 

b)Engagement in social contact with someone unfamiliar to the claimant isalways

 

precludeddue to difficulty relating to others or significant distress experienced bythe

 

Individual. 9 points

 

If there is no onearound me I seem to be calm but the slightest bad thought makes me anger andI feel like I need to hurt someone, it there is no one around I tend to hitmyself so that I calm down. Even thesmallest things like if my daughter has forgotten to get some milk I start toargue and throw things at the wall, or if I have put something down and forgotI blame my daughters that they have moved it and start to scream and shout atthem accusing them of hiding it. I hadand episode with my eldest daughter where she forgot to take the washing outand I started to shout and throw things around, she called the police and wastaken away from the house. She has leftand says that she can`t cope with my health anymore. I get a burning in my head as if it is goingto explode it I don`t get the anger out.

 

 

 

Ibelieve I fill the following descriptors:

 

Appropriatenessof behaviour with other people, due to cognitive impairment or mental

 

disorder.

 

b)Occasionallyhas uncontrollable episodes of aggressive or disinhibited behaviour that would

 

be unreasonable in anyworkplace. 9 points

Edited February 18, 2013 by honeybee13
name given

[leesa786]

I dont go out and its so hard to get help when Im stuck indoors I do try but since the date for my appeal I have gone into major depression and my dr has changed my medication

[honeybee13]

Hello Leesa.

 

I've just noticed someone's name in your document. I've removed it to tidy it up and will repost it in a few minutes. Nothing sinister, just trying to keep it confidential for you.

 

HB

[honeybee13]

It's back up now, I think we had the same thought at the same time. Hope it's OK now.

 

HB

[estellyn]

It looks very good leesa, you've done a good job. There's just a few things you may want to add - a paragraph at the beginning just giving a short history of your incontinence and depression - how long you've had them, what treatments you have including medication you take. And in the section where you talk about sleep problems - mention the sleeping medication you take and when it was first prescribed.

[honeybee13]

Hello Estellyn, I was hoping you'd see this.

 

Would you total up the points score at the end, just to make a point?

 

HB

[leesa786]

Hi

Thanks I have that evidence about my sleeping tablets I put it in when I had a reconsideration and mentioned it but not in great detail as my daughter was writing it and it was very hard to tell my daughters as I was trying to cope with it myself.

In the past i used to say im depressed but now i know its an easy word to use and unless you have been or going through it you dont realise what it does to you.

But im fighting it and intend to beat it (not easy though) but i`ll get there:-)

[leesa786]

thank you so much for looing at it

I have been panicking and stressed but this is the first time in the last 2 weeks since I got my tribunal date I feel a bit relaxed.

Thank god for these forums you have really helped me

[estellyn]

Hello Estellyn, I was hoping you'd see this.

 

Would you total up the points score at the end, just to make a point?

 

HB

 

Yes, HB, makes a good way to conclude. Also worth pointing out to them the support group descriptor met for incontinence.

[honeybee13]

thank you so much for looing at it

I have been panicking and stressed but this is the first time in the last 2 weeks since I got my tribunal date I feel a bit relaxed.

Thank god for these forums you have really helped me

 

That's really good to hear. I'm pleased you found us.

 

HB x

[abc123def]

Hi Leesa

 

Your response looks really good. Statistics say 40% of people who appeal are successful but this rises to 70% if represented professionally so it might be worth finding an advocate to accompany you.

 

You can find one here http://www.mind.org.uk/mental_health_a-z/8040_advocacy_in_mental_health

 

I had a Mind advocate at my last Tribunal which was for DLA and she was brilliant. Try not to be embarrassed about your MH sysmptoms when contacting them, they have heard it all before and in fact hear it every day. I have also been through an ESA tribunal too, and was successful so hang in there, you are doing really well.

[estellyn]

Hi Leesa

 

Your response looks really good. Statistics say 40% of people who appeal are successful but this rises to 70% if represented professionally so it might be worth finding an advocate to accompany you.

 

You can find one here http://www.mind.org.uk/mental_health_a-z/8040_advocacy_in_mental_health

 

I had a Mind advocate at my last Tribunal which was for DLA and she was brilliant. Try not to be embarrassed about your MH sysmptoms when contacting them, they have heard it all before and in fact hear it every day. I have also been through an ESA tribunal too, and was successful so hang in there, you are doing really well.

 

Though it's worth pointing out that the increased appeals success has little to do with the rep attending the Tribunal itself, and everything to do with the preparation and help in preparing the case and submission and compiling supportive evidence - and I say that as a former rep.

[leesa786]

Hi abc123def

 

Thanks for that I have had my daughter to help me with it. Its the thought of going out to see them I really struggle and my appeal is next monday. The problem I have is i`m scared to phone them incase they say they cant help. I`ll feel rejected and thats when I fall into depression again.

I have been working all my life except for the last year before that I was a single parent bringing 3 girls up having a full time job and doing voluntary work as a special constable (just so that I could help others who suffered domestic violence)

2 months before I found out about what my ex had done I had just lost my mum.

psychatrist told me I need to still greive and its come to terms with it and its all come flooding out now. held it in too many years.

I`m learning how to not look at the future but to take 1 day at a time

I`m so grateful for all the replies

[estellyn]

Leesa, do you have medical evidence to take with you?

[leesa786]

Yes my dr (who I dont usually see) is going to write me a letter.

He didn`t want to as he said it straight to my face that everything that is wrong with me is in my head. My daughter just laid into him and said look at all my records for the last year every detail is recorded. (hallucinations, sucide attemps, not being able to go out,) When he checked he went quiet and knew he was wrong. Hes going to write the letter for 40.00pnd

my psychatrist is away been try to contact her no luck.

[leesa786]

Oh and I had x-rays done and it has showed that I have advanced rhuematiod arthiritis and need a hip replacement sent to sugeon apparnatly the dr I saw for the letter said

`its all in my head and never checked the x-rays and there is nothing wrong`

[abc123def]

Leesa, it sounds to me like some help from your local CTT (community treatment team) would be helpful, has your GP refered you? Your story sounds so similar to mine, DV included. I see a social worker from CTT at least fortnightly and have had DBT and CBT therapy and am being put forward for further help and I am making progress. Otherwise, what therapy/treatment/support do you have, aside from medication? When the roots of the depression and anxiety is life events such as with us, I think medication alone is of limited or little help. Worth pushing for it imo.

[time4change2]

good luck i really hope its all goes well for you

 

let us know how you get on x