trancyb vs Barclaycard - probably **WON** with Compound Int't

[trancyb]

Thanks again Slick. Had a look, made more sense than i expected and a lot quicker!

 

Is it just me, or is the N1 form unavailable? I followed the link from here to the court site, searched and found N1 but it wont open for me. Gets part way and just stops.

[slick132]

Try this link for the Form N1

 

http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n001-eng.pdf

 

[trancyb]

Nope same problem. I guess that means it works for you? Im on a mac so who knows!

[trancyb]

Sorted. Had to save to downloads for some reason!

[trancyb]

Ok, i have basically pinched the POC from Shelleys thread. It seems its all the same as my claim.

 

Im a little confused re this part though

 

"(1) A declaration that the sums totalling £xxx.xx have wrongly been applied to the Account. These charges are older than the normal 6 years but are claimed by virtue of s32 (1) c Limitations Act 1980 as per Kleinwort Benson v Lincoln City Council."

 

Do i only include the charges that ARE over 6 years old, or is it just basically saying as some are over 6 years im using this precedence.

 

Also this part re the SOC

 

"Attach your schedule of charges and head it schedule 2 be sure to include the date that charge was applied to the account, the date you paid the charge, the type of charge eg over limit, late payment etc"

 

I dont have the date the charges were paid on my spreadsheet, is that an issue?

[trancyb]

Oh and now this little pearl! I read on the small claims site that over 5k may require different hearing! Is this going to be a huge deal? im heading for 5.7k at the minute!

[slick132]

Hi Trancy,

 

1. If some of your charges are older than 6 years and some are more recent, the POC will read:-

 

"(1) A declaration that the sums totalling £xxx.xx have wrongly been applied to the Account. Some of these charges are older than the normal 6 years but are claimed by virtue of s32 (1) c Limitations Act 1980 as per Kleinwort Benson v Lincoln City Council."

 

2. I'm not sure how you're reclaiming charges on a spreadsheet WITHOUT the dates. The dates are vital for calculating the interest in restitution ??

 

3. You need to sort out the dates for the spreadsheet before we worry about the size of the claim.

 

4. Re the POC referring to interest, Shelley POC may have claimed Statutory Int't at the nominal rate from the spready. This was wrong and you can only claim Stat'y Int't at 8% at a daily rate from when the claim is issued.

 

[trancyb]

3rd time lucky then! Really wish the browser would hold text so you can still get it when you click back!!

 

Was uo till god knows when this morning reading up, eyes were dying by the end! Made some more sense of it all though!

 

Point 1) Cool, thought that would be the case in the end.

 

Point 2) Date charge was applied is on there, but the instructions say it wants the date you paid the charge also. Maybe that needs to be changed, as the other threads its come up in, seem to show its not needed.

 

Point 3) it has date of charge, type, amount, days since charge and int in rest columns. Just not the date charge was paid so i think im ok on that on.

 

 

Point 4) i have int in rest as 29.9 on the spready from the start, i thought i needed to stop that on date of filling and then add the daily rate @ 29.9 to the POC. Is that wrong?

 

Im getting there though, thanks to your guidance Mr Slick!! (or Mrs Slick i guess!)

[dx100uk]

open two copies of your brower on the same thread

or

use notepad to type your reply in

then copy and paste it.

 

dx

[slick132]

With BC, I suggest using 24.9% as a nominal rate for compound interest in rest'n.

 

I think you may be getting confused - the date the charge "was applied" and the date "you paid" the charge are the same in this case. I don't know what spready you're using but, if you're in any doubt, try this one which only needs the date the charge was applied - http://www.shweb.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/interestcalcs.xls

 

Use the spready to claim the chgs plus compound int't in rest'n up to the date of claim.

 

The POC will then say you claim Stat'y Int't at simple 8% on the chgs and int't at the daily rate of £x.xx from the date of claim until settlement. You can use the figure of claim amount x 0.00022 to get the daily rate.

 

Example Penalty chgs = £124; Int't per spready = £738

 

Total claim is 862.00 x 8% = annual int't amount, divided by 365 = daily figure

 

862 * 8% = 68.96 /365 = 0.188 or £0.19 per day

 

OR 862 * 0.00022 = 0.189 or £0.19 per day

 

Your court fee depends on the amount of your claim, being chgs and compound int't. Stat't Int't is not claimed on court fees.

 

[trancyb]

Nice one DX i came to the same copy and paste plan in the end! Just copy it before i press send now!

 

Slick

i used the 29.9 as i saw that on a few threads, shelleys included. Should i change that at the court stage or leave it? I sent them the prelim and LBA with SOC using 29.9.

Should i change it now as i will hopefully be filling at court in the begining of next week?

And why the change down to 24.9%? Im definatly a little confused about that.

 

Yep cool, thought it would basically just be the one date. Spreadsheet is all good then. Phew

 

Ah ok. So you lose the int in rest during the court process. No worries, i can sort that bit easy enough. Cheers for the calculation too, appreciate that!!

 

The small claims court site said that over 5k is a different type of case, as mine is nearly 5.7k do you know what the implications of this are?

[slick132]

Hi Trancy,

 

It's personal choice about the interest rate and I know BC have paid out on claims based on 29.9%. Personally, I think 24.9% is easier and more reasonable to justify if it goes to court.

 

Also, if you used 24.9%, would this take the claim total down below the current £5K Small Claims limit.

 

[trancyb]

I kinda would love to hit them with 29.9%. What im more worried about is what im letting myself in for by crossing the 5K limit.

 

Changes the total by about a grand! so yep comes in under 5k at 24.9%

 

Wouldnt they have to defend their charges before they challenged my interest request? I really have no idea, it was just a thought.

[slick132]

Hi Trancy,

 

If they managed to have the claim allocated to Fast Track instead of SCT, there would be an increased risk of exposure to costs. You may also have to prove your case to a higher degree than that required on SCT.

 

They'll defend their charges, they'll argue against repaying any charges older than 6 years and they'll defend against your entitlement to Int't in Rest'n.

 

Although it's unusual for BC cases to reach a final court hearing, you must be prepared for this to happen. So, while you'd love to hit them with 29.9%, remember that you may have to justify your decisions.

 

Edited January 26, 2013 by slick132

[trancyb]

Yeah that was the thing i wondered about. Being liable for their costs if i make a mistake isnt really an option, arse.

 

Then again, 27.1% isnt out of the question.

[trancyb]

Will it matter if i suddenly change the interest rate now? I will then be sending the 2 previous SOC's with the court bundle so will be conflicting info.

[slick132]

Why include the previous 2 SOC's with your bundle? I don't think you need do that.

 

Decide on what rate you want to use. In this respect, I suggest you do NOT use a nominal rate that conveniently makes your claim a tad under the £5K SC Track limit. I'd either claim 24.9% or 29.9%.

 

Then send a further LBA stating what you want from BC and give them a final 14 days to agree to refund the revised claim amount. When they fail to agree to refund, file your claim using an updated SOC which shows compound Int't in Rest'n at whatever rate, calculated up to the date of your claim.

 

Recalculate your s.69 Stat'y Int't daily rate based on the chgs plus int't as at the claim filing date.

 

[trancyb]

New LBA sent, still 29.9% but with 4 peviously refunded charges NOT on there

 

Now 4700 or so.

[trancyb]

Right, they are out of time. So its court time.

 

Im looking at the N1 and wondering do i need anything in brief details of claim, or do i just fill out the particulars of claim? Sorry if this is a dumb/obvious ting! im not thinking well today nut still keen to move this on! Have found out im fee exempt though so that made me

 

Also the bit Shelley has added and called schedule 1, do i only include that if i have their T&C's, which i don't?

[slick132]

Brief details of claim - Money claim for return of penalty charges applied to the Claimant's credit card account by the Defendant.

 

The item you refer to in Shelley's POC's at Schedule 1 should be adapted to reflect your own case. You need to source a set of T&C's that are close to when you opened the a/c or when you are reclaiming the charges from.

 

[trancyb]

Oh wow on point one you are a legend! Thought it was going to be another epic lump.

 

Point 2, OH!

[slick132]

If you need T&C's, decide roughly what year you need and PM others who have **WON** asking for a copy as near as poss.

 

Threads are here but look for the **BC WON with contractual int** cases - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?97-Barclays-BCard-and-Woolwich-successes

 

[trancyb]

Ah thats a very good plan! Mine was december 2001 though! may not be quite so easy, but thanks a ton for the idea! I was trying to figure a way to google them up!

[trancyb]

Nice when things just work themselves out! looked at Shelleys and its the exact same start by the looks of it! PM on way then!

[slick132]

Good choice as Shelley will help all she can.

 

Be patient though as I know she's a lot on at the moment.