UKPCL ANPR PCN - overstay - MCDONALDS· WAKEFIELD 2 569, DEWSBURY ROAD WAKEFIELD WF2 9BY

[RyanB96]

Hi, 

 

I have just received a parking offence through the post from McDonalds.

 

On the 17th April 2022 I was parked in McDonalds from 09:32:28 until 11:52:30 a time of 2 hours 20 minutes.

The car park was relatively empty the whole time.

I was parked there, because after a large night out the night before, I took 2 of my girl mates to maccies.

They were extremely hungover, and we were literally eating McDonalds / in maccies.

We bought food multiple times over the time period. 

 

I have received a £50 parking offence from McDonalds as apparently, the maximum time you are allowed to be parked in Maccies for is 1 hour 30 minutes.

I have never heard of such rubbish.

The fine is from UKPC (UK Parking Control Ltd) 

 

How do I fight this?

I wouldn't mind if I was just parked there and gone elsewhere, but we were literally in the McDonalds, buying food repeatedly. 

 

Happy to provide any and all information required. 

 

Thanks, 

Ryan 

Edited April 27, 2022 by dx100uk
formatting

[Bazooka Boo]

It isn't a fine, it's just an invoice.

 

Unless they have used the word 'fine' on their invoice?

 

Ignore UKPC for the moment, and get in touch with Maccies and have them cancel the ticket.

 

Don't get fobbed off with ''it's nothing to do with us, we can't cancel these tickets'' absolute rubbish, they can and they do cancel these tickets because they lose customers otherwise.

 

Can you scan it up but ensure you redact ALL identifiers, VRN Ref No's etc and fill this in please.

 

Edited April 27, 2022 by Bazooka Boo

[RyanB96]

Hi @Bazooka Boo, Thanks for the response. It doesn't use the word "fine" but does use the phrase "parking charge". 

 

I've called the maccies multiple times, but they do not answer the phone.. it's one quite a long way away from me, so not one I can go to, to chat to the manager either. 

 

I will keep trying to get through, but if that consistently fails, what's the next steps? 

[Bazooka Boo]

Try emailing them also, fill out the sticky so others can advise you later.

 

DO NOT appeal or correspond with UKPC, the ONLY time you need do anything is ''IF'' they send you a claim form,

 

But this will do the usual rounds of powerless DCA's before they even look at claim forms.

 

 

[FTMDave]

If you get no luck with the local branch then e-mail the CEO  https://www.ceoemail.com/s.php?id=ceo-8918

 

Obviously include proof of purchase and lay it on thick that you "overstayed" as you were spending a load of money in McDonalds, which is surely what they want!

 

And as Bazooka Boo has already asked, please fill in the sticky, we may well have threads on this car park and there is likely to be a lot wrong legally with the fleecers' paperwork.

[lookinforinfo]

The CEO of McDonald's is below

 

Alistair.Macrow@uk.mcd.co.uk

He certainly has the power to quash the ticket. Just explain to say how much you were enjoying your time there and how much you all spent as well as saying that you are quite often visitors to McDonalds. 

 

It would have helped had you posted up the questions above which would have included the PCN itself. Quite often they are not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act. In fact you would be better to wait until we have seen the PCN and the actual time you were over the time limit as you could use that for additional ammunition to put and end to the PCN.

 

[RyanB96]

Hi @Bazooka Boo, @lookinforinfo and @FTMDave

 

Apologies, I'm sure what you mean by "Sticky"? 

 

As requested, I've attached the PCN (all details scrubbed) - please let me know how to proceed - should I still email the CEO? 

 

Thanks,

Ryan 

PCN McDonalds.pdf

[dx100uk]

please complete this:

 

 

[dx100uk]

can we have the reverse of the letter too please

[lookinforinfo]

Yes you can write to the CEO now.

 

The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of  Freedoms  Act 2012. The wording is wrong for a start.  Under Schedule 4 section 9 [2][f] it states 

"(f)warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given—

(i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and

(ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,

the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;"

 

That is not quite what the PCN says but in any event all the applicable conditions have not been met.

 

The PCN has to publish the period of parking within which the alleged breach occurred. Instead UKPC have used the arrival and departure times taken from the cameras. This is not the period of parking as obviously it takes time and includes driving from the entrance, finding a parking space and then actually parking, which is then followed by moving the car out of the parking space and making way to the exit.

 

On busy times, or if some occupants of the car are children requiring removal and replacing seat belts and some disabled may have wheel chairs to take out the car and replace them later, all adds to the time which is required to be called the parking period. So by taking that time away from the PCN quoted time and a ten minute grace period as a minimum that twenty minutes can be eaten up so no breach occurred.

 

[RyanB96]

Hi, 

 

I have tried the branch at the time and they were no use; they just kept saying there was nothing they could do, it was clear I was not going to get anywhere with them. 

 

I have today received another letter - attached - dated for 18th July with a threat to transfer to solicitors if I don't pay £170. (I have also received other letters demanding £170 which I have just ignored, I can provide them too if needed). 

 

I also today emailed Alistair on that email provided above (McD CEO) but it hit a delivery master failure issue and wouldn't send. 

 

I also looked at filling out the sticky, but it seems excessively complicated and the thread is blocked for replies, so I havent done that. 

 

Please advise on what next steps I should take, 

 

Thanks, 

Ryan 

 

 

Update - I tried the other link for emailing the CEO, note the CEO email is Alistair.Macrow@uk.mcd.com (not .co.uk) 

 

However, he is out of office until August 9th. 

 

[FTMDave]

I doubt very much that no-one will check the e-mails of the CEO of McDonald's until 9 August!

 

I'm bemused as to why you e-mailed him today rather than nearly three months ago when we gave you the address.

 

As for the fleecers' threats - they haven't sent a Letter of Claim so you can ignore their bluster.

[RyanB96]

Yeah, in all honesty I had a lot going on and completely forgot about this until the letter came through today! 
 

 

[honeybee13]

I also looked at filling out the sticky, but it seems excessively complicated and the thread is blocked for replies, so I havent done that. 

 

The sticky says to copy and paste the questions into your thread [this one] and to add your answers in red. If you take it slowly, it's not that hard to fill in. This is important information for us, so please give it a go.

 

HB

[lookinforinfo]

The Mc Donalds email address is working fine . Are you sure you copied it correctly?

[lookinforinfo]

Their £170 is an unlawful amount and no Judge will allow it. The maximum is £100. On top of that this company has been banned by DVLA in the past for falsifying photographic evidence.

[RyanB96]

Hi @lookinforinfo 

 

The email is .com rather than .co.uk - I got through eventually. However I got a response from customer services (rather than the CEO) - see below: 

Quote

Michael Kelly (McDonald’s Customer Services) 25 Jul 2022, 11:24 BST Dear Ryan,   I am writing further to your email which has been passed for my attention regarding your visit to our Charlton restaurant. I have noted your comments and welcome the opportunity to confirm our policy on this matter.   As a company, putting in place enforcements within our car parks is only done after careful consideration and very much as a last resort. Primarily, we use parking measures to ensure there are spaces available for our customers’ vehicles, as well as to deter unwarranted or unreasonably prolonged usage of the facility.   I can confirm this parking area is managed by an independent company who are responsible for monitoring the car park and taking details of registration numbers. The regulations and signs at the restaurant clearly state the policy and the relevant charges.   I trust you will appreciate that in order to maintain a consistent approach; we have to adhere to the guidelines in place regardless of whether you were in the restaurant for the duration of the stay or not. As such, in a situation such as a clear contravention of parking regulations, we are unable to deal with any specifics or cases on an individual basis. Suffice to say, if a customer contravenes the clearly displayed parking regulations, they will receive a ticket.   Thank you for contacting us and again for the opportunity to comment and if you do wish to pursue the matter, this will need to be done by following the appeals process outlined on the parking ticket.   Kind regards, Michael Kelly Senior Customer Services Manager Customer Services Team McDonald's UK Customer Services 11 - 59 High Road East Finchley London N2 8AW

 

@honeybee13 I will look again at the sticky and try to get it filled out. 

 

@lookinforinfo and @FTMDave so while it's not valid, I don't want to keep receiving threatening letters - how do you advise I get them to just go away... or is it literally a case of constantly ignoring them? If they send a claim form, what happens then? The most recent letter does say that they are passing the case to solicitors, which upon googling are legit / do have the power to take people to court apparently? 

 

What do you advise, 

 

Thanks, 

Ryan 

 

[dx100uk]

Letter of claim first..

 

Dx

[FTMDave]

That's a disgraceful reply from McDonald's.  However, it was worth a try.

 

You can't magically stop UKPC from writing to you (unless you give in).

 

However, as dx says, unless/until they send you a Letter of Claim it's all hot air from paper tigers.

 

Come back here if a LoC arrives.

[RyanB96]

Hi @FTMDave, @dx100uk, 

 

What is the likelihood I should receive a letter of claim, and once received, will I need any documentation? If so, I'd like to start preparing this in advance so I'm not under time pressure. I did read the LoC thread you linked above, and noticed you said for PCNs if a LoC is received, then ask for a suitable snotty letter - is that then the end of the process? (Do you have a good example of similar forum/situation you know of)

 

I'd also like to know, can this actually result in having to go to court to settle this? 

 

Thanks, 

Ryan

[honeybee13]

I'm sorry to say that your questions indicate that you haven't really read any other threads apart from your own. It's only by reading up that you'll understand how the private parking industry functions.

 

If you get a letter before claim, sending a snotty letter is a way to let them know you'll be trouble if it goes to court. But it doesn't always work and we've seen plenty of claimforms here after a snotty letter has been sent.

 

We'd like to prepare as well so please could you have another try with the initial information I asked for a few days ago

 

HB

[RyanB96]

1 Date of the infringement 17/04/2022

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] Not sure what "NTK" is, but "Parking Charge Date" : 22/04/2022
 

3 Date received Letter received: 22/05/2022
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] No, don't think so
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? There is a photo of my vehicle leaving the car park.
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] No, I have not responded to it. I have emailed McDonalds; response to that is in thread above. 
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up n/a
 

7 Who is the parking company? McDonalds car park; ticket is from UK Parking Control LTD (UKPC) 

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] McDonalds - Wakefield 2 - 569 - McDonalds Carpark, Dewsbury Road, Wakefield, WF2 9BY
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

Parking on Private Land Appeals (POPLA) 

 

There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS.

 

If you have received any other correspondence, please mention it here

• "Final Warning" letter from ZZPS requesting £170 dated 20/06/2022
• "Notice of transfer to solicitors" letter from GCTTCertificated Enforcements Agents dated 18/07/2022

 

Date of infringement - 17/04/22

Date of PCN - 22/04/22

Date of Notification Letter - 22/05/22

Date of Debt Collection Notice Letter - 06/06/22

Date of Final Warning Letter - 20/06/22

Date of Transfer to Solicitors Letter - 18/07/22

 

All PDFs here: 

 

All Pdf.pdf

[dx100uk]

thread tidied

so no letter of claim yet.

sit on your hands

[RyanB96]

Hi @dx100uk

 

Please see the latest letter from QR Solicitors -

 

The letter is dated 03/08/2022.

 

However, I was away on holiday last week from 08/08/2022 until yesterday (14/08/2022) and it was delivered at some point in that timeframe. 

 

 

03-08-22 - QR Solicitors.pdf

[dx100uk]

Its actually from zzps using a letter head, same printer as the last one.

 

obv not a letter of claim.

go read a few like threads wirh your players.

 

 

Dx