Prosecution likely, but I'm going abroad

[button_muffin]

Hi,

I am most likely being prosecuted for fare evasion sometime within the next three months. I have no summons yet. In about a month I am moving abroad for an unknown period of time to undertake a work placement. How does this work with a potential charge? What do I have to do? I have found no job since graduating and I need this, so I can't not go, and currently there is nothing in place to prevent me from going.

[Grotesque]

currently there is nothing in place to prevent me from going.

 

Absolutely not

 

Same for them; nothing to stop them progressing the thing in your absence. In the same way that 'ignorance is no defence', nor is absence. You will return (presumably, hopefully, LOL!) to find a conviction in absentia.

All the best. Cool username BTW

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

I've moved your post to a thread on your own because you posted on someone else's.

 

Based on your brife details, I think Grotesque is right. From what I've read on the forum, this problem isn't going to go away.

 

I'm sure you would normally arrange for your post to be forwarded from your old address if there will be no-one there to keep it for you, so you will see any correspondence from the TOC. You will be able to submit a plea by post directly to the court.

 

We've had one or two cases where people have had summonses catch up with them years after the event, so I would say you're better off dealing with it.

 

My best, HB

[melhunter]

I agree you can't think it will go away but hey we can hope inform them of your forwarding address so that way your not just disappearing and keeping yourself in the right They can postpone or whatever but your life must continue so do so Good luck in job enjoy and wishful thinking but perhaps they will be put off perusing if your abroad Just keep yourself in the right and good luck

[button_muffin]

Thanks for all the advice. I want to clarify that I am NOT moving abroad to avoid a prosecution - it was in the pipeline before the incident happened.

 

I will be pleading guilty, I have no choice. But I am stuck in limbo - the prospect of a criminal record has me worried sick. I have had bad dreams and been unable to focus properly on anything. I want to do everything properly and get the minimum sentence...I have very little money. Even the work abroad is work experience so it's expenses only.

 

I have tried asking both the prosecution company and the rail company to settle out of court to no avail. I will continue to try even when the court letter comes through. If I had realized at the time that this would involve the court, I would have only given my name and address and not answered any questions. I naively thought I would be sent to the ticket desk after questioning to pay a fine.

 

I have tried to find a lawyer, but with no summons I can do nothing. They are not interested. The one lawyer I spoke to said to come back when I have a summons, he wasn't even convinced that the case would even make it to the courtroom.

 

I have spent so long building up a brilliant future and now see it all going to pot.

[button_muffin]

Is it likely that they'd be put off pursuing if I went abroad? I had every intention of paying whatever amount they asked for. The criminal record part worries me sick, even though it's the most minor of offenses.

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

Our [ edit: other - sorry, Grotesque] industry guys haven't seen your questions yet and it would be better to wait for them to arrive to give you chapter and verse. They should be around this evening or possibly tomorrow morning.

 

HB

[SRPO]

If they cant serve a summons on you, they cant prosecute you. Read into that what you will.

[Old-CodJA]

Is it likely that they'd be put off pursuing if I went abroad? I had every intention of paying whatever amount they asked for. The criminal record part worries me sick, even though it's the most minor of offenses.

 

Have you actually told the TOC that you are about to leave the UK for an extended period?

 

It appears that you suggest this is a case of 'fare evasion' and therefore will be treated as fairly serious so far as they are concerned. You don't say what you did, but this will have a bearing on the rail companys willingness to settle

 

It seems to me that they could quite easily serve a Summons on your address by post and from previous correspondence the prosecutor can show the Court that you have acknowledged the offence and entered into correspondence about it at that address. If you do not then answer their Summons, I cannot see why a Court would not be persuaded to prove the case in your absence. You are then very likely to return to the UK at a later date and find that a conviction and hefty Bailiff's bill eventually catches up with you as Bailiffs enforcement costs have been accruing.

 

You could try writing to them again, making clear that you will be leaving the country for an extended period and ask if they are prepared to allow an alternative disposal

 

Alternatively, you could ignore it and hope that it doesn't catch up with you later, but with evidence that you have identified yourself as the offender on file, that's entirely a matter for you and your conscience

[button_muffin]

What is an alternative disposal? How would this work? Thanks.

[Old-CodJA]

alternative disposal = out of court settlement

[button_muffin]

Oh OK. I tried offering that to both the prosecution company and the train company but so far to no avail. I didn't mention going abroad because I didn't know if I would be prosecuted before going, I still have a month to go and a letter could come any time. I was very stupid, it was a one off (believe me, it WONT happen again) and the amount in question was less than 50p.

[Old-CodJA]

Oh OK. I tried offering that to both the prosecution company and the train company but so far to no avail. I didn't mention going abroad because I didn't know if I would be prosecuted before going, I still have a month to go and a letter could come any time. I was very stupid, it was a one off (believe me, it WONT happen again) and the amount in question was less than 50p.

 

I am intrigued to know what exactly happened in this case?

 

In my experience it is unusual, but by no means unheard of, to continue to prosecution for such a small sum unless there are other aggravating factors or the traveller has a previous record for fare evasion.

[button_muffin]

I am intrigued to know what exactly happened in this case?

 

In my experience it is unusual, but by no means unheard of, to continue to prosecution for such a small sum unless there are other aggravating factors or the traveller has a previous record for fare evasion.

 

OK, so firstly I am posting to tell my side. Like I said, I am very ashamed, scared, miserable about this, so please no one tell me how stupid I am - how I have felt during the past 3 months is more than enough of a punishment.

 

Last Dec I traveled two stops to Cardiff Queen Street. At the barrier, I bought a ticket from one stop away, not 2. After I did this, a ticket inspector took me aside, took down my details and then told me I would get a letter and let me go.

 

To clarify: the station I came from has no means to buy a ticket (no barriers, no personell), and the station I told them I came from had no means either. No one was aboard the train to sell me a ticket.

 

During that period I had a number of work engagements (internship - I have no paid job), hospital appointments, job centre appointments all requiring me to travel to different stations on the line. Even though it costs the same amount whether you travel from my station to Queen Street, Coryton, Radyr, Cardiff Bay, Cardiff Central etc, there is no one ticket to cover them all. If there were, I would have bought a season ticket, and this would never have happened.

 

Don't take the above as an excuse, I know it is my fault. I am just pointing out a missed marketing opportunity for Arriva Trains Wales.

 

It's an external prosecution company called Transport Investigation Ltd who are prosecuting, so I suppose they are trying to get their money's worth.

 

Citizens Advice said get a lawyer (the guy I spoke to at CA - the same thing happened to him in London and his case was chucked 1hr before it was due to commence). The lawyer I spoke to said this probably won't reach the court, come back when you have a summons.

 

I would of course plead guilty, I have no choice. But the difference was so small that it doesn't warrant a criminal record surely.

[Old-CodJA]

OK, that explains the small price difference, but it is still a case that can be prosecuted.

 

From your post it seems that you offered to pay a fare that was less than the fare that was due from the station that you actually travelled from

 

I'm sure someone local to the area will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it's true to say there was no-one on the train to get a ticket from.

 

So far as I am aware, I think all trains in South Wales have a guard/conductor on board and it is up to you to approach staff to pay the proper fare.

[button_muffin]

Maybe in theory, but in practice this does not always happen. There is not always someone on board to collect fees, and smaller stations do not have barriers or ticket machines.

[Old-CodJA]

Maybe in theory, but in practice this does not always happen. There is not always someone on board to collect fees, and smaller stations do not have barriers or ticket machines.

 

I just thought I would check and Arriva trains Wales say that there are no trains operating in the Cardiff area that are driver only operated.

 

They say that because of the unstaffed stations they can not operate any service there unless there is always someone on board to pay. They say that there are a few stations that do not have facilities, but most have ticket machines or booking offices.

[button_muffin]

I assure you, trains frequently travel without ticket staff. Sometimes they have 2 members of staff per train, sometimes one and sometimes none. Sometimes ticket staff run out of tickets (the cards they print on) mid journey, sometimes ticket machines run out of battery or break down...although they may say that they always staff, there must be a reason why they place extra members of staff behind the barriers.

[MrGates]

Just to clarify that there will ALWAYS be a guard on the train 99% of the time at the rear of train, if not the train will not move anywhere what so ever due to locking of doors and not being DOO services.

[Old-CodJA]

Justto clarify that there will ALWAYS be a guard on the train 99% of the time at the rear of train, if not the train will not move anywhere what so ever due to locking of doors and not being DOO services.

 

Mr Gates is absolutely right. There has to be a guard otherwise the train will not move in passenger service

 

 

I assure you, trains frequently travel without ticket staff. Sometimes they have 2 members of staff per train, sometimes one and sometimes none. Sometimes ticket staff run out of tickets (the cards they print on) mid journey, sometimes ticket machines run out of battery or break down...although they may say that they always staff, there must be a reason why they place extra members of staff behind the barriers.

 

There will be staff at station barrier lines to assist travellers who have genuinely been unable to buy a ticket

 

I’m sorry if you think it is uncharitable, but your post says you offered a fare from a different station to the one you actually travelled from. Obviously that was a lesser fare otherwise you would not have been reported.

 

How do any of your references to ATW occasional failings referred to above, excuse you for offering to pay less than was due for your journey?

Edited March 16, 2012 by Old-CodJA

[button_muffin]

It doesn't excuse me at all. I was just making a point that there's not always a guard selling tickets on the train.

[airwolf21]

Trust me i'm an ATW guard and no ATW train moves into passenger service without one of us. You could have gone to the back cab and knocked? As for stations two stops away you fail to mention which stop it was?

[dx100uk]

Trust me i'm an ATW guard and no ATW train moves into passenger service without one of us. You could have gone to the back cab and knocked? As for stations two stops away you fail to mention which stop it was?

 

thread is more than 1yrs old

 

closed