Cabot and Citi Card debt

[seylectric]

Actually it was me you PMed tygermoth, and I said OK so as much my fault as yours!

[andrew1]

Thanks Seylectric - my hero!

[Tygermoth]

**Blushing** I actually do have permission to post from the orignator of the thread - this time lol

 

 

My apologies to both seylectric and Andrew1 for causing confusion.

 

 

I have my own thread in 'other institutions' and to aid clarity and to help ppl following that thread (and hopefull evaid the wrath of the Mods) i will cut and paste helpful replies to that thread too.

 

 

It just this thread has more 'traffic'

 

 

Below is a letter that i am intending to send to credsec - what u all think?

Data Protection Act 1998 Subject Access Request

Dear Sir/Madam

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXXXXXX

 

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my alleged debt since inception of the loan. This includes the term prior to your purchase of the alleged debt. As well as to supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account.

 

I also require a signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

 

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you.

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

Tyger

[Seminole]

You are mixing up a request under the Consumer Credit Act with one under the Data Protection Act.

 

The CCA request requires a statutory fee of £1. If they fail to comply this renders the debt unenforceable until they do comply. All it will normally produce is a copy of the credit agreement, a statement of account and a copy of any deed of assignment.

 

The DPA request has a fee of £10. It should produce everything covered by the Act which will quite often include the information requested in the CCA letter. However, not complying with the DPA creates a different set of problems for the creditor than not complying with the CCA. The key thing to note is that the creditor is only obliged to reply to either request if the relevant fees are enclosed.

 

By combining the two requests you are creating the potential for confusion that any DCA will be only too eager to explouit. You would be better off sending two separate requests.

 

Also as you are dealing with people who lie for a living, you should send the requests by recorded delivery.

[Tygermoth]

Thank you for your input and i take on board what you have said. I mangled the two together to get it all done in one go. but i see what you are saying and will amend.

 

Tyger

[brandedcentaur]

Hello all,

I have been following this thread with some interest as I have had my fair (UNfair?) share of hassle from DCAs.

I'm afraid, with respect, that I do not agree with the argument that you should ask them for details of who sold the debt to them, IF it was sold etc, etc. My attitude is, "the best means of defence is attack", & I simply want them out of my hair (or what is left of it! ) ASAP so that I can concentrate on recovering the unlawfull fees from the banks!

With that in mind, this is the letter I send. So far, touch wood, it has resulted in an abrupt silence from the DCAs.

 

Chancin Their Arm Debt Recovery,

45 Tryiton Street,

Sewerville,

Pi55 0FF.

 

25 May, 2006.

 

 

Re: Thievin Bassas Bank PLC

Account reference: 255954

Account holder: Branded Centaur

Your reference: 31564684/215-05

Address. 123 Myhouse, Anytown, XY20 3XZ.

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Thank you for yours of 22 May, 2006. I write to advise you that the debt which you seek to recover is the subject of legal action and therefore cannot be enforced by you or any other debt collection agency.

 

My details should never have been passed to you in the first instance and this letter serves as a formal warning to desist immediately from any form of contact with me or I shall begin court proceedings against you for harassment.

 

Whereas I have been a customer of Thievin Bassas Bank and whereas I consented in my contract with them to the disclosure by them of certain data to third parties, at no time did I consent and neither was it within the contemplation of the parties to the contract that I did consent to the processing by them of that data in any manner which would be unfair or inaccurate or which in any way would breach The Data Protection Act 1998

 

Therefore Take Notice that I require that you cease from processing within 7 days of the receipt by you of this notice or else that you do not begin to process any personal data of which I am the subject insofar as that processing involves the communication or passing of personal data of which I am the subject to any third party and insofar as the said data relates wholly or in part to the implementation by you of charges which have been applied to my account in respect of defaults or contractual breaches and where the said charges which have been levied at a rate which is in excess of the administrative costs incurred by you as a consequence of the said defaults or breaches contrary to The Common Law.

 

This Notice is given on the grounds that the processing or continued processing by you of the said data will be likely to affect my credit rating and my reputation and cause substantial damage and/or substantial distress to me and my family members in addition to that which may already have been caused and that as the processing of the said data in the way referred to in this notice would violate the fourth, first and sixth principles of The Data Protection Act 1998 to do so would be unwarranted.

 

Signed,

 

Branded Centaur.

Actually, I quite miss my little chats with the DCA folks - see my answer to another post for a list of fun things to say. My main defence was to put the phone on top of the TV and turn it up full blast!

Feel free to use my letter if you wish (but be sure to insert the name of YOUR bank where it says "Thievin Bassas Bank PLC"! They may BE thievin' bassas but the law forbids us from addressing them as such!

 

[brandedcentaur]

seylectric said:

In the one and only conversation I did have with Cabot the rather snotty woman on the other end told me "Whether you agree with it (the debt) or not you will have to pay it". I told her I didn't and I wouldn't.

 

I keep this beside my phone for when DCAs call:

 

1. Tell them they must have the wrong number, only God lives here.

2. When they call back, tell them this is the devil's residence.

3. Tell them s/he can't come to the phone right now as they are in deep meditation and may stay that way for days.

 

4. Start telling them about the wonderful encyclopedias you have in stock.

 

5. Start telling them your life story.

6. Tell them about your intense hatred for salespeople, then ask where they live.

7. Reply to all their questions in song.

 

8. Ask for someone who can translate Pig Latin, as you speak no other language.

 

9. Hand the phone to the youngest member of the house - preferably under five. If no such person is available, give the phone to a pet.

 

10. As soon as they name the corporation they represent begin barking relentlessly.

 

11. Start trying to give them a psychological analysis.

 

12. Demand that they refer to you as Dr. Chopstick

 

13. Proudly describe what you found in your ear this morning.

 

14. Ask them what color underwear they are wearing today.

 

15. Describe your socks in detail.

 

16. Interrupt them repeatedly to describe the beauty of your new toaster.

 

17. Whiningly tell them that it is past your bedtime.

 

18. Midway through the conversation say, "Oh no Phil! You've done it again! I told you that knife was too sharp! Where are we going to get the money for another funeral?"

 

19. Ask them repeatedly if they believe in antelopes.

 

20. Refuse to answer any of their questions, as they may be one of THEM!

 

21. Ask them what they think would happen if you put a frog in a blender later tell them they were wrong.

 

22. Ask them for their phone number so that you can call them back and chat some more.

 

23. Burst into tears when they try to hang up and scream, "Don't leave me!"

 

24. Tell them about the time you got stuck in the doggy door.

 

 

25. When they ask to speak to you spend a long time trying to decide if that really is your name and after you realize it is ask them to remind you of it occasionally.

 

26. Proudly explain that they are the first person that you have spoken to since you returned to Earth.

 

27. In the middle of the conversation start humming the Sesame Street theme song, when they try to speak sound surprised and say, "Is someone there?"

 

28. Begin snoring.

 

29. Gleefully explain that "they" have come for you and that you are going to a better place.

 

30. Start screaming whenever they say the word "that."

 

31. Say, "I am so glad you called, I have been waiting and waiting to hear from you!"

 

32. Answer every question with the phase, "I like eggs."

 

33. Say "Don't you hate it when you get your tongue stuck in a door?"

 

34. Tearfully explain "It's you, my long last sister/brother!" as soon as they identify themselves.

 

35. Complain to them about how outrageous it is that you have to take time out of your busy day to breathe.

 

36. Start reading them some of your poetry.

 

37. Occasionally start singing commercial jingles.

 

38. Suggest that the two of you get together sometime and go bowling.

 

39. Go into detail about the government's plot to overthrow the universe.

 

40. Ask them what they would do if there was a dead body on the floor of their living room.

 

41. Discuss what a wonderful world it would be if we were all born with tails.

 

42. Whenever they try to get a word in babble on about how young people these days talk way too much, and don't respect their elders. (Works best if they are clearly older than you.)

 

43. During complete silence ask them if they hear that pounding noise.

 

44. Make loud pounding noises and when they ask about them say "What pounding noises?"

 

45. Tell them to hold on a second, set down the phone and sing loudly.

 

46. Insist on calling them Mr. Spock.

 

47. Ask them if they will get you a birthday present.

 

48. Tell them you can't talk now, as you are trapped in an invisible box.

 

49. Beg them to dispose of your dentist, who is involved in a secret plot that shall result in your demise.

 

50. Pretend to be an answering machine.

Incidentally, I am on the TPS list which means that any cold callers are prohibited from phoning me - so it is only DCAs who call.

[seylectric]

Brilliant stuff!

 

I have a much easier way though, I just don't answer the phone if the caller's number is "withheld" or not local or recognised. I have an answerphone and I look at it this way: If it's important they will leave a message (but messages from DCAs just get deleted anyway), if they don't leave a message it could not have been that important.

 

Works for me.

[brandedcentaur]

True -but my way is f-u-n!

[seylectric]

LOL, I've actually tried a few of those!

 

I used to let them waffle on for a while and then say "can you repeat that for me please", sometimes adding, "I just want to make sure I recorded it all properly"

[JonCris]

Forgive my ignorance please, but the text makes reference to the Consumer Credit Act 1974. According to OPSI (formerly HMSO) the it's now the Consumer Credit Act 2006?

 

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2006/20060014.htm

 

TBH, I don't quite get this. Is it an amendment or a replacement?

 

Am I right in that my reading of the "unfair relationship" opens the way for the debtor (subject to the courts judgement) to call into question the whole debt where it can be proven that the creditor or their agents has acted unreasonably.

This appears to allow the courts to cancel the debt because of poor/illegal conduct by creditors toward debtors

Anyone else read that into it

[seylectric]

Oh, yes, that's EXACTLY my point. Forget the supposed debt, how about compensation for illegal harrassment by the debt collection agencies/bailiffs/councils/utilitiy companies etc.

 

If I owe some council tax they can throw me in jail. If the council owe me money for work I have done for a company they employed I have to go to the smal claims court to try and recover it (actual situation, I have been waiting 18 months for payment of an invoice of around £280. )

 

If Powergen owe me £500 I have to go to court to try to recover it; if I owe Powergen £50 they can cut off my electricity supply. How fair is that???

[JonCris]

Does anyone know anything about the following debt collectors

 

Robinson, Way & Company Limited of Salford, Lancs

 

Ruthbridge Ltd of Teddington, Middlesex

 

Close Assistance of Sheffield

 

Any info would be welcome

[seylectric]

Robinson, Way and Co. are kittens!

[JonCris]

Robinson, Way and Co. are kittens!

 

Thanks but what sort of kittens.

Can you give me any sort of history

[chrismc]

Does anyone know anything about the following debt collectors

 

Robinson, Way & Company Limited of Salford, Lancs

 

Ruthbridge Ltd of Teddington, Middlesex

 

Close Assistance of Sheffield

 

Any info would be welcome

 

Best to just ignore them they will give up and go away eventually, do not call or answer their correspondence. Like the others say they are pussies!!

[Seminole]

You may want to ignore the DCAs but you should deal with the debts.

[chrismc]

You may want to ignore the DCAs but you should deal with the debts.

 

Yes valid point and of course correct, Seminole.

[JonCris]

You may want to ignore the DCAs but you should deal with the debts.

 

I understand the largest alledged debt (£13k) being pursued by Robinson, Way might be time barred. This debt appears to have gone through a number of DCA's (3 at least that I know of) none of whom have managed to make contact with the debtor

 

As for the others they are being dealt with but I just wondered if anyone knew anything about the agencies named.

 

Has anyone reported them. Apart from the usual what other sorts of tactics do they use. Are they very aggressive. Do they try & add unjustified charges etc

[brandedcentaur]

I Googled "Robinson Way harassment" & found this if it's any use:

 

http://www.touchnottingham.com/business/list/bid/2755015

 

Oh, while I was browsing, I came across a rather naughty post from a person who Googles the return address on all his mail & "returns to sender" those he knows are from DCAs!

[brandedcentaur]

I also found this absolutey brilliant page on DCAs - EVERYONE who has dealings with DCAs needs to read this!

 

http://boards.fool.co.uk/Message.asp?mid=9708407

[JonCris]

I Googled "Robinson Way harassment" & found this if it's any use:

 

http://www.touchnottingham.com/business/list/bid/2755015

 

Oh, while I was browsing, I came across a rather naughty post from a person who Googles the return address on all his mail & "returns to sender" those he knows are from DCAs!

 

 

Thanks. Yes just like the rest of the parasites another bunch of tossers.

 

Gawd how anyone can work for one of these firms & sleep at night defeats me.

 

& as far as the money lenders (banks) are concerned I like to remind folk at every opportunity these are the same people who Jesus kicked out of the temple

 

By the by I don't know if anyone is aware but DCA's are not supposed to hide their numbers or use 0870 numbers which are considered premuim rate. Nor are they supposed to make anonymous calls. You know the sort of thing they get their computer to call then say now't when it goes to A/Phone. Caused a few divorces that has. To do any of these things is in breach of the OFT guidelines & may render them unfit to hold a licence. So the more complaints to the OFT the better. Even single breaches should be reported

[ANNALH]

Is this the same for a debto collection company who took on a bank loan debt??

 

I had a loan which subsequently was passed to debt collectors who added on a ridiculous amount in 'charges'. Trouble is I do not know how much the charges were as I have spent the last 4 years paying it off and will still be paying it off for another year or so.

 

I am thinking about finding out how much I have been charged, although I have a feeling if they put it down to their 'service' charge we cannot relaim it. Do you know if this is correct?

[alanfromderby]

Robinson, Way and Co. are kittens!

 

Next Saturday they will be Kittens who have lost their cream! At that time they will have committed an offence against me under the Consumer Credit Act.

 

They have already failed to meet the 12 working day deadline to provide copies of two credit agreements totalling around £10k, and if they fail to provide them by Saturday they will pass the "offence" deadline.

 

At that point, should they decide to try enforcement, they will have some serious explaining to do to the District Judge - and they will have Trading Standards and the OFT to answer to as well.

[seylectric]

ANNALH, Fight it. Stop paying, you have probably paid too much already. I've said this time and time again, YOU did not hire them and as such YOU are NOT liable for their charges. Refuse to deal with them and deal directly with the creditor, even if you only send a pound a week.

 

If the creditor gives you nay nonsense about it having to be deal with by the DCA as it's now in their hands, ignore them and just keep sending the payments. Try to work out what you have paid in charges and deduct it from what you owe. If you have already paid too much send them a bil for what they owe you, with interest. They would!

 

Read through the info on this thread and on this board, and go for it!

 

 

 

Alan, keep us informed.