Announcement: ESA claimants now have the option of having their WCA recorded

[nolegion]

Grayling has indeed told parliament you cannot get Atos to record a 'home visit'. Disgraceful and undeniably discriminatory, in my earnest view.

 

However, my 'inbox' has just this minute alerted me to this, from campaigner Paul Smith:-

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/116534/response/288529/attach/2/FoI%20IR%20324%2013.06.12.pdf

 

The FoI response from the DWP admits that such assessments have been recorded, but seeks to suggest that Atos has, legally, some form of 'discretion.' This is nonsense. Insist and DWP and its subcontractor have, legally, 'nowhere to go' - and they know it.

Edited June 14, 2012 by nolegion

[worried33]

Far too sensible, Dilizjo. The DWP really knows how to put the 'ass' into assessment.

 

I read an account yesterday (at that 'site-we-don't-mention') from a claimant who asked for a WCA scheduled for January 2012 to be recorded, and after repeated re-appointments and cancellations, because Atos can't organise it, she still hasn't had that WCA by this mid-June.

 

The claimant was clearly on the misery-go-round of, first, appeal because of denial of ESA, succeed in the appeal, and then receive an almost immediate rescheduling of yet another WCA.

 

But she has stopped that in its tracks it appears – simply by requiring Atos to carry out DWP policy.

 

It certainly seems that where you are already on ESA (and you can handle the paperwork and uncertainty), you have little to lose by requiring a recording, and you may well postpone yet further intrusive, stressful, and humiliating re-assessment for the foreseeable future; with the added privilege of watching the DWP and its subcontractor making asses of themselves in the process ...

 

...(combined the warm and cosy hope you may be helping undermine the whole ghastly, disdainful, cruel, lethal, ignorant, imperious, botched and unfit-for-purpose, scheme to boot).

 

I agree although in my case they are now making me send in sicknotes. In the past if a medical was delayed I was never required to send in sicknotes. But then again if I had a medical and failed I would still need to send in sicknotes whilst appealing but for half the money. In the meantime tho it seems I will be subject to agreesive short notice appoints been made and me having to keep getting them cancelled, the latest one is still not cancelled the guy wants to wait until the day before as he says otherwise I will just get another apoointment very shortly after.

 

It would seem that ATOS and the DWP are scared of what will come out with recorded medicals and they consider that worse than letting a few people having delayed medicals, as I expect a very few are eben aware they can have it recorded.

[count orlok]

Great, the fact that 2 have been recorded means there can be more and they can't really deny such a request.

[nolegion]

That's how I see it, count orlok.

 

It was the same with Grayling saying that WCAs (at medical assessment centres) would be recorded on request by Atos 'where possible'. Tripe. If it is 'possible' for one claimant, it's possible for the rest, and the fact that a bunch of staff at Atos may be having bad hair days is utterly irrelevant. Simply insist, as people are clearly doing about having their WCAs recorded in general, to the manifest humiliation of the DWP and its subcontractor.

[reallymadwoman]

Grayling has indeed told parliament you cannot get Atos to record a 'home visit'. Disgraceful and undeniably discriminatory, in my earnest view.

 

However, my 'inbox' has just this minute alerted me to this, from campaigner Paul Smith:-

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/116534/response/288529/attach/2/FoI%20IR%20324%2013.06.12.pdf

 

The FoI response from the DWP admits that such assessments have been recorded, but seeks to suggest that Atos has, legally, some form of 'discretion.' This is nonsense. Insist and DWP and its subcontractor have, legally, 'nowhere to go' - and they know it.

 

I have just been told by ATOS that home assessments categorically CANNOT be recorded as they can't expect the staff to carry all the equipment around with them. It suits me at the moment to not argue the point, but if/when they offer me a home visit I will be insisting that they can record.

[reallymadwoman]

Also I had an appointment booked for just over two weeks time and I'm told recording equipment would have been available. Since it isn't available without a long delay anywhere else in the country I suspect that when I turned up I'd have been offered the choice of rescheduling or carrying on regardless.

 

I think if this happens we should be insisting on rescheduling, no matter how annoying it is to have to keep turning up, and complaining to anyone who will listen. Just because we're sick/disabled, it doesn't mean we don't have better things to do than traipse backwards and forwards to assessment centres.

[Guest amianne]

Quite so, RMW.

 

I see the increasing number of accounts of 'inability to process' being posted here at CAG , and elsewhere, as affirmation of both the principle and maths of your post #85 in this thread.

 

It seems that the people most at risk from the incompetence are new claimants for ESA who want a recorded assessment, which makes that 13 week principle referred to earlier here, of particular importance. I wonder if anyone has any further info on that particular score.

 

E.g., how do you set about claiming the higher rate after 13 weeks without an assessment - whether because of Atos inability to provide a recorded interview, or otherwise?

 

For the full details of the appeal hearing taken by a Welfare Rights Office, see the following link.

 

http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/2810/

[keefyboy]

I can not understand why ATOS can not carry out home recordings, the size of the machine would not need a Fork lift to bring it, at the very best I would anticipate it be more than 3/4 metre long by maybe 20cm deep and same high. these machines do exist I will see if I can find one, to send a link to ATOS so they can't deny giving recorded home interviews.... we can wish can't we.....

[nolegion]

In the light of recent posts, if you assume that in any given week Atos might be able to deploy on average a maximum of 10 'approved recording devices' actually in working order, and that (at absolute best) each device was used to record 8 WCAs a day , for five days a week solid, then the maximum possible 'recording rate' would be:-

 

10 times 8 times 5 = 400 recorded assessments per week across the nation.

 

In fact\practice, I believe the logistics would produce a far lower rate, but, for the sake of discussion at least, it might be reasonable to assume that a 400 figure would be something like the maximum possible achievable by the DWP's subcontractor with current kit and under current circumstances.

 

If you apply that to the supposed 11000 assessments per week to be processed (see RMW's post #85, here) then in theory they could 'cope' with a magnificent (400/11000 =) 3.6% of claimants (to be 'processed') requiring a recorded assessment.

 

Any greater percentage would clearly create an ever-expanding, calamitous backlog causing delay, stress and uncertainty for thousands of claimants.

 

And also an increasing number of people receiving WRAG-rate ESA (under the 13 week rule – see amianne's fine link in post #132 here) some of whom might not otherwise ever have become entitled to it.

 

In the recording 'trial' last year, 64% of claimants said they wanted a recording carried out – although that 'dataset' involved those with the not inconsiderable advantage of being told they had the option of a recording in the first place. (If you look at para 3.1 of the Atos report linked at post #76 here, the DWP's\Grayling's subsequent attempt to 'spin' this into 'less than half' (46%) is simply pathetic and transparent nonsense.)

 

Conclusion: Atos needs over 17 times its current recording capacity (3.6 times 17.777 = 64) to meet the demand that could be estimated from the trial, if everyone knew they had the option.

 

My age and infirmity could misplace a decimal point or two with ease, and I would be only too glad to be corrected if my analysis doesn't stack up. But it looks ok to me.

 

You may wish also to refer to following confirmations from the DWP, dated 14th June 2012 which I have lifted from a disgracefully-delayed response to a set of FoI queries raised by expert compaigner John Newman at the WDTK website:-

 

" In reply to Q 1d there are 11 recording machines in use across the MACs

 

In answer to Q 2 if a claimant is unable to attend their WCA because Atos Healthcare are unable to comply with the request the postponement will not be attributed to the claimant."

 

(http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/wca_audio_recordings_2#comment-28810)

Edited June 18, 2012 by nolegion

[rainbo]

 

" In reply to Q 1d there are 11 recording machines in use across the MACs

 

In answer to Q 2 if a claimant is unable to attend their WCA because Atos Healthcare are unable to comply with the request the postponement will not be attributed to the claimant."

 

(http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/wca_audio_recordings_2#comment-28810)

 

My reply to the DWP is: there may be 11 recording machines, but at least 3 of them are broken.

[worried33]

well I got very distracted the last 2 days and completel forgot about this, I had (I think) a appointment today that they told they would cancel shortly before and send me a letter, I was going to ring them up the day before to make sure that was the case but forgot about it. So will now find out tommorow if they did cancel or played games and made it so I had a missed appointment.

 

The up point of this tho is I do have a DWP manager who knows I requested the recording and is aware of the situation so hopefully if they didnt cancel it this wont escalate.

 

The appointment they left on the system was either today or the 28th.

 

--edit--

 

it did get cancelled the guy kept his word.

Edited June 20, 2012 by worried33

[nolegion]

That was a close one, worried33. Glad it turned out ok. May I ask how long in total you have been waiting for a recorded assessment so far?

 

Grayling was asked yesterday if he would ensure that all Atos medical centres were appropriately equipped for recording. He didn't give a straight answer, of course, but he did admit that he was now:-

 

"…,reviewing Atos capacity to provide recordings for those claimants who currently request one."

 

(http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2012-06-19a.112785.h&s=atos)

[Dilizjo]

Should Grayling not be looking at ATOS capability to actually carry out these assessments on the DWP's behalf?

[osdset]

Grayling is very happy with ATOS's capabilities, they fail most claimants which is just what he and the government want.

[Slatted]

Doesn't the amount of appeals have a financial impact at all?

[keefyboy]

Shouldn't Grayling have a medical (recorded of course) as annon person to see what the truth really is and what ATOS are saying....

[worried33]

Doesn't the amount of appeals have a financial impact at all?

 

probably but they also gain that they making life hard for claimants.

[Slatted]

You mean that if they stress us enough we will drop dead? ...........

[worried33]

You mean that if they stress us enough we will drop dead? ...........

 

I cant remember where I heard it but it was a video of a minister somewhere where they basically said one of the aims of reform was to make it diffilcult to claim benefits as a detterent.

[Nystagmite]

You mean that if they stress us enough we will drop dead? ...........

 

Yes. There was a report out earlier this year which said 32 people a week on ESA die.

[Slatted]

A deterent for what? To stop those in genuine need trying to get what they need just to have a little quality of life? (and by that I mean a roof over head money to heat and light the place and some basic food)..How nice.....

 

It is not as if people choose to be ill is it? And it is not as if the unemployed always have a choice as it is fact that there are not enough jobs....

 

It seems a shame that logic is no longer a requirement for decisions to be made....

 

I bet the Govt will just say that as ESA implies people are ill then a certain number would be expected to die each week....they will not look into factors that might have contributed to this...such as extreme stress and low self esteem....

[Crazy Diamond]

Ok, I have news, as of yet unconfirmed officially, but they are causing a lot of distress on the disability circuit. The good people at Spartacus are looking into it, so please don't panic just yet:

 

'Report today that an ATOS test centre in Chelmsford, has stated that, after a meeting held at DWP yesterday, all centres have been told that the recording of assessments is no longer available.

They now have to offer an appointment WITHOUT recording facilities which you must accept or declare you as a no show!'

 

We're trying to find out more, but this is in direct contradiction of what Grayling himself said to the Commons Committee.

 

IF this is true, this justifies even more that you should record your own without telling them.

[caledfwlch]

Is it right that if you covertly record a medical now, that all your benefits will be sanctioned, and there is no right of appeal?

[osdset]

Is it right that if you covertly record a medical now, that all your benefits will be sanctioned, and there is no right of appeal?

 

Where did you get that from? My information is that if you were caught covertly recording, ATOS would stop the assessment and probably eject you from the building, this would then go down as not attending the assessment, which would result in the claim being suspended at least.

[Crazy Diamond]

Is it right that if you covertly record a medical now, that all your benefits will be sanctioned, and there is no right of appeal?

Simple answer: No. That would be unlawful for them to do so.