Announcement: ESA claimants now have the option of having their WCA recorded

[**Margaret**]

:Hi bigissue:

 

No known way, that I'm aware of, to ensure an officially audio recorded messical. Shatos simply don't have enough audio recorders (53 shared between 130+ permanent assessment centres) or pinocchios prepared to use them. Little wonder that claimants resort to covert recording.

 

A recorded delivery letter, sent now, to confirm your request for a recorded messical will serve as written evidence, should you need it, of your request. Shatos can't say they didn't know, when they somehow don't quite get around to arranging a recorded assessment. Last year several Members of Parliament rescued constituents from forced non recorded messicals; some of whom are still waiting for an appointment!

 

Work n Pensions policy is that they can insist on a non recorded assessment but they've not done so since the start of October 12. The usual senario with non compliant claimants is that Shatos reschedule the assessment; again n again n again n ......

 

Sincerely, Margaret.

 

 

From the Shatos blog:

 

'If the recording equipment is not available within approximately four weeks of you contacting us, we may need to ask you to attend an appointment without being able to meet your request - as the DWP have asked us not to delay claims for this reason beyond a reasonable point. In this case we would advise you and discuss possible alternatives.'

 

http://blog.atoshealthcare.com/2012/12/how-to-request-an-audio-recorded-assessment/

 

The possible alternatives are taking a companion or taking notes.

Not quite the same.

Edited February 27, 2013 by **Margaret**

[bigissue]

Thank you all and especially Margaret. I am on good terms with my local MP who knows my situation so I will send another written request to back up the request I made on the ESA50 and if they say they cannot I will see if my MP can write on my behalf to ask for one.

[**Margaret**]

: DWATO's Take on the Equality Act:

 

Guidance to Jobcentreplus staff states; 'Staff should also be aware that interviews can be recorded where it is a 'reasonable adjustment' requirement under the Equality Act 2010.'

 

Reasonable adjustments for interviews with Shatos? No chance!

 

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/equality_duties_recording#incomong-360031

 

Margaret.

Edited February 27, 2013 by **Margaret**

[nolegion]

If people feel that obtaining an audio- recording of the PIP medical assessments starting next month requires a separate thread, they will no doubt vote with their feet.

 

Personally, I think that to treat claimants who want recordings of PIP assessments differently from those wanting such of their ESA assessments is, or would be highly artificial – and just what the DWP wants.

 

I say this because there is, it would now undeniably seem, going to be no opportunity for PIP claimants to get Atos or Capita to provide them with an audio-recording.

 

This is apparent from an FoI response just in at WDTK,today:-

 

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/149319/response/366049/attach/2/653%20response.pdf

 

And that leaves only the 'personal equipment' route, which, while deceitfully refusing to put their policy into publicly-accessible print, the DWP is in practice blocking by insisting on equipment most people could not possibly afford - in contravention of their own legal advice.

[SWLABR9]

One imagines that'll be tested in the courts eventually.

[nolegion]

I'm sure that will be the case, SWLABR9

 

I forgot to mention in my last post: the 'other option' i.e.covert recording. For PIP claimants it really does look like there will be no realistic alternative.

 

Perfectly legal, and driven to it by the duplicity of the DWP. What an utterly absurd, grotesque, piece of mismanagement.

Edited March 4, 2013 by nolegion

[bigissue]

Update: I was very surprised to get a letter over the weekend from ATOS informing me that my WCA will be recorded as they have the equipment available on the day of my assessment which is around a month after I sent my ESA50 form back. I am very surprised as I was expecting a longish wait to get the assesment recorded but perhaps I have been lucky. I just hope that having the assessment recorded results in a fairer outcome than last time!

[SWLABR9]

I had mine last Thursday and it was recorded as I asked. Went very pleasantly apart from me being dead on my feet from having to be there in the first place.

[bigissue]

I had mine last Thursday and it was recorded as I asked. Went very pleasantly apart from me being dead on my feet from having to be there in the first place.

 

I hope that it does indeed help the outcome to be fairer. I have had two previous assesments and the first was very straight forward, I was not kept waiting, the HCP who assessment me was nice the the report they wrote was fair and placed me in the support group for a short time. The last one I had I was kept waiting for hours, asked to cancel and was seem by a doctor who had not had any time to look at my form. He was not rude as such but he tried very much to concentrate on the lesser of my health issues and the report was full of inaccuracies and missing info. He gave me zero points but the DWP DM reversed the decision in about 20 minutes after I spoke to them of the phone by which time they actually looked at my supporting evidence. I am hopeful that a recorded assessment will mean that such inconsistances between what I say and the assesor says will be avoided or at least limited.

[keefyboy]

So far I have not been called for my assessment yet (that will jinx my luck I can tell ya) can people give me some info on what sort of things they have used as supporting evidence for their assessment claims please. The more the merrier, I want to be well prepared, and i know they give you time limits to return the forms so can be preparing early as I have a lot of things wrong with me that are not obvious to the eye......... thanks in advance.....

[nolegion]

" There are no recorded operational procedures, policies or guidance that would prevent or discourage a Decision Maker from considering a CD copy of a covert audio recording of a WCA submitted as evidence by a claimant.

 

The Department’s Decision Makers have to consider all the available information before making a decision on benefit entitlement including any additional information provided by the claimant, their GP or consultant. This could include the CD of an audio recorded assessment or the transcript of such."

 

(Emphasis mine)

 

From:-

 

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/149989/response/369095/attach/2/FOI%20768%20Mr%20R%20Sykes%20response%20final.pdf

 

And once considered by a 'decision maker', on what possible grounds could a tribunal or court decline to review the same evidence on appeal? None, I would suggest.

[Crazy Diamond]

.

.

 

Apologies for the caps, I have just copied and pasted from a post on FB group "Atos Miracles":

 

 

 

BREAKING NEWS ON BENEFIT CAP....courtesy of Paula Peters who was present for PIP stuff today!

as you all know the cap is:

£350 single person

£500 couples and single parents.

 

Exemptions are ESA Support Group,DLA/PIP

 

those benefits included in the cap are the following;

JSA

SDA

HOUSING BENEFIT

COUNCIL TAX BENEFIT

ESA WRAG GROUP

INCOME SUPPORT INC DISABILITY PREMIUM

INCAPACITY BEN

BEREAVEMENT ALLOWANCE

CARERS ALLOWANCE

WIDOWS ALLOWANCE

 

THIS CAP WILL INCLUDE ALL THE ABOVE SO YES YOU WONT GET MORE A WEEK THAT £350 OR £500 TO PAY EVERYTHING YOU NEED AND THOSE WORKING ON LOW WAGES IF THEY EARN OVER THE CAP ,IT WILL BE TAKEN OFF ANY HB YOU GET AT PRESENT

 

UNIVERSAL CREDIT:

WORKING TAX CREDITS SCRAPPED APRIL2014

 

ATOS NOT ALLOWING AUDIO ASSESSMENT RECORDINGS BUT YOU CAN USE A ADVOCATE TO SPEAK ON YOUR BEHALF

NEW CLAIMS START OCT BUT MAYBE DELAYED

INDEF/LIFETIME 2015

 

ONUS ON CLAIMANT TO GATHER EVIDENCE

 

PIP WILL USE ONLINE TRACKER SYSTEM AND THOSE WHO CANNOT HEAR OR SPEAK WILL BE ABLE TO USE A APPOINTTEE WITH CLAIMANTS PERMISSION.

YOU WILL GET PHONECALL USING TRACKER FOR ALL OTHERS WHICH YOU WILL BE ASKED A LOT QUESTIONS (18PAGES) BEFORE THE CLAIM FORM IS SENT OUT.

3MTH QUALIFYING TEST FOLLOWED BY 9MTH PROSPECTIVE TEST THIS MEANS A YEAR IN TOTAL AND THOSE WITH FLUCTUATING CONDITIONS WILL BE AFFECTED BY THIS NONSENCE

 

INFO RECEIVED FROM KATHERINE MARSHALL

CAM PATEL WHO ARE BOTH PARTNERSHIP DEVELOPMENT MANAGERS FOR SOUTH EAST /LONDON

 

 

 

The highlight is my own. Looks like they're going to try and cut people off the recording requests before they're even made... B*stards.

 

Ah well, if they "won't allow" them, looks like people will just have to do it themselves without permission then, won't they?

[Guest]

this is going to cause some demo's riots etc surely....if rents increase, bedroom tax and no hope of getting smaller property....the list goes on. this government has got to be stopped, and I did agree with another poster that this country is becoming a dictatorship, atos refusing to record assessments knowing full well how hard it is to get an advocate to attend with a claimant, and even then I still wouldn't put it past them to lie, no recording = no proof. covert recording...and how long before we are searched before entering.......this government will finish the poor and they are already dictating IMO the thin end of the wedge is this that's happening now, before long we wont be able to protest, wait and see.....

[Guest]

atos know full well that the dwp will back them, the dwp are not going to argue that recordings have to take place...so basically they are letting atos dictate to us.......this has got to be stopped.

[**Margaret**]

::rant:Shattered by Shatos:rant::

 

What Shatos want and what Shatos get could turn out to be two very different senarios.

 

Currently, I've a shedload of unanswered (despite DWATO being in the naughty chair) freedom of info stuff piled up cos I've been distracted by the fall out from non recorded farcicals. Sharn't have a shread of sympathy for the next pinocchio who ends up on YouTube!!!

 

Margaret:rant:

Edited March 22, 2013 by **Margaret**

[Guest]

I would take my chance and record and post on youtube and be damned..it would be worth it...I am turning into a rebel with a cause cos of this lot

[**Margaret**]

:Ruby_Tuesday:

 

You n me both. N I suspect, lots of others.

 

Twelve months ago I was asking nicely for a recorded messical and wouldn't have dreamt of, or known how to do, a covert audio record. When DWATO push me to shove, which they've done this month ......

 

Margaret.

[nolegion]

What is the underlying source of this apparent develoment re recording? The facebook page is timed as yesterday but I cannot find any form of parliamentary announcement in Hansard.

 

For some while now the DWP has acknowledged that neither Atos nor Capita will he providing a recording of PIP assessments on request, as (supposedly) for WCAs. But it has also indicated, at least up to now, that overt recording BY claimants of PIP will be permitted -as (supposedly) for WCAs provided a claimant's equipment meets its (in my view, illegally obstructive) requirements.

 

If the DWP is really reneging on the WCA 'system' and on any use of 'personal equipment', it will indeed just drive people to record covertly; but I would much like to locate any fresh 'official' 'text a.s.a.p? CrazyD... anybody... help?

Edited March 22, 2013 by nolegion

[Guest]

Its something that we do need to see I agree nolegion, and I will definitely have a recorded assessment, whichever type and whichever way, and fight them all the way. I also agree that it does seem illegally obstructive what they demand as suitable equipment. This has to be fought.

[Crazy Diamond]

What is the underlying source of this apparent develoment re recording? The facebook page is timed as yesterday but I cannot find any form of parliamentary announcement in Hansard.

 

For some while now the DWP has acknowledged that neither Atos nor Capita will he providing a recording of PIP assessments on request, as (supposedly) for WCAs. But it has also indicated, at least up to now, that overt recording BY claimants of PIP will be permitted -as (supposedly) for WCAs provided a claimant's equipment meets its (in my view, illegally obstructive) requirements.

 

If the DWP is really reneging on the WCA 'system' and on any use of 'personal equipment'. it will indeed just drive people to record covertly; but I would much like to locate any fresh 'official' 'text a.s.a.p? CrazyD... anybody... help?

 

Sorry, I can't tell you more than this, except that Paula Peters is an activist in my neck of the woods, and she was at this "PIP stuff" from which she wrote the notes. I can ask her if she'd mind shedding some light on the origins.

 

Edit: I think that what they're saying and what will happen in reality are 2 different things, after all, we have heard the "not allowed" line often enough and yet, we pushed that back bit by bit. I *think* that they're referring to PIP and recording rather than reneging on the WCA part, and I guess that they would like to try and stop PIP claimants from gettign a recordign so will use the same amount of disinformation and outright lies as they did with the WCAs...

[Guest]

oh yes...now that would make sense of it, I tend to agree with your thinking on that. and yes I keep reminding myself of the 41 plus things the govt talk about then get pulled back on....***** and their useless thought process and pig-headedness.........

[nolegion]

Thanks for the comments. I'm sure more detail will emerge shortly, one way or another.

[dyfed]

Is there anyway of making yourself a data controller?

Atos or dwp make themselves the data controller of our data, our personal information so why cant we controll our own information?

If we are the data controller then posting on youtube may be possible.

 

Edit: just to add, we can record what ever we want in our homes. If we insist on a home PIP assesment then there is nothing stopping us recording.

[WhyOhWhy13]

So were not allowed recording now then?

 

Bit worried as I'm waiting for my next round of lies with them

[Guest]

i will be recording any assessments, either recorded by them or by me, covertly if necessary. it is my right to protect myself and i will do so whatever however wherever and despite whoever.