Cap1 & CCA return

[foolishgirl]

HI

I was told by the OFT the it was acceptable to have the information regarding overdraft interest available on the website and this would satisfy the terms of the determination.

Simon

 

Don't think so - what about those who haven't got access to the internet or never use a computer?!

 

What's up with these govt. quangos - they seem to be living on the same planet as DCAs nowadays. They'll be demanding big bonuses next.

[simon the poet]

These are poeople who have posted on here and gone through all this many moons ago and now some of whom post elswhere.

 

One well known lady hasd a similar experiance and won her case over a failure to send copy agreements she in particular is the case i am thinking about but there are others.

 

Simon

 

HI Are you allowed to quote yourself anyway.

 

JUst to clarify. There is no reason in law why a DCA or creditor cannot continue to chase a debt even if the agreement is unenforceable via section 127. The only thing is, that they cannot pursue it through the court and they are not allowed to threaten any such measures. If they do they breach OFT guidlines and possible contempt of c.

If the debtor choses to pay then he cannot ask for repayment unless he can show he was duped into making payments on a debt that was not owed.

 

Simon

[simon the poet]

Don't think so - what about those who haven't got access to the internet or never use a computer?!

 

What's up with these govt. quangos - they seem to be living on the same planet as DCAs nowadays. They'll be demanding big bonuses next.

 

HI

I agree

but it is an indication of the kind of help you can expect from the OFT.

 

Simon

[car2403]

HI

I was told by the OFT the it was acceptable to have the information regarding overdraft interest available on the website and this would satisfy the terms of the determination.

Simon

 

The OFT would be right where there are changes to be communicated, such as in interest rates, etc, but the Determination dates back sometime and requires this information to be sent to the debtor prior to, or shortly after, taking the overdraft out. (Coutts)

[underdog13]

QUOTE: ORIGINALLY POSTED BY CAR2403: "

Overdraft agreements are regulated by the CCA, however - despite the Banks' efforts to blind consumers with legal mumbo-jumbo to hide the facts - so are challengable on the same grounds as any CCA. The only difference will be that Overdrafts are exempt from the Agreement regulations due to a s.74 CCA 1974 Determination issued by the OFT - to benefit from the Determination, however, the Bank has to comply with it's terms, meaning they have to send you details of the interest rate and charges applicable when you apply for the Overdraft, or shortly afterwards, plus how they will terminate the agreement. If they don't comply with the Determination, the debt will be unenforceable in Court. This is a little gem that they don't want you to know, but it does work, believe me;" END QUOTE

 

Hi I have been having ongoing problems with Natwest. I asked them some time ago for a copy of the letter (details) that should have been sent out at the inception of the O/D. They wrote back and stated that they do not have any copy letter or anything else. I'm just wondering, does the fact that the rate of interest and amount of authorised o/d was stated on the monthly statements they sent out, affect the statement made above.

 

Many thanks, Magda

 

Check your statements carefully; I have a Natwest account and the interest rate they state on monthly statements is the unarranged o/d rate, not the arranged rate. In addition, I was never advised what my arranged rate would be when I took on the overdraft, nor was I told anything about how they would terminate....

[MAGDA]

Check your statements carefully; I have a Natwest account and the interest rate they state on monthly statements is the unarranged o/d rate, not the arranged rate. In addition, I was never advised what my arranged rate would be when I took on the overdraft, nor was I told anything about how they would terminate....

 

Thanks, I will give the statement a close scrutiny then - I'm sure they didn't send me anything in writing either at the time the O/D was arranged and the only info I had was on the statements. They actually confirmed that they didn't have any paperwork regarding the overdraft when I asked them to prove a letter had been sent at that time. I'm in the process of writing to them, so think I will bring all of this up again, that should please them:)

 

Magda

[underdog13]

Thanks, I will give the statement a close scrutiny then - I'm sure they didn't send me anything in writing either at the time the O/D was arranged and the only info I had was on the statements. They actually confirmed that they didn't have any paperwork regarding the overdraft when I asked them to prove a letter had been sent at that time. I'm in the process of writing to them, so think I will bring all of this up again, that should please them:)

 

Magda

 

Heh, heh, how nice of them to admit they have nothing:)

 

I specifically remember not receiving any notification of what the arranged overdraft rate was, because I had been wondering what I would be paying ever since I took the darned thing out. I was finally told the arranged rate by a bod on the actionline telephone banking - I was perplexed as it didn't match the quoted rate on my statement - when I re-read it, I noticed they quoted the unarranged rate on statements! I just assume they would quote my applicable rate on my statements - silly me; that would be far too logical for these numpties!

 

Taught me a lesson not to skim read financial docs.

[simon the poet]

Hi

I copied this from peterbards letters thread it is a communication from the OFT and does confirm what is being said, however it was the last bit that prompted my inquiry to them.

 

Dear Mr Bardsley

CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 (the Act)

Thank you for your emails of 15 March 2007, concerning overdrafts, and of 22 March 2007, concerning credit card agreements, which have been passed to me to reply. I apologise for the delay in replying.

I should note that unfortunately the Office of Fair Trading (the OFT) cannot comment on or intervene in individual matters. This is because such actions fall beyond the remit of the OFT and because the OFT cannot be aware of all of the relevant information in each instance. Similarly, the OFT cannot comment or express a view on particular practices, save where the OFT has considered a practice in the round and its view is in the public domain. The following points are therefore general in nature.

Overdrafts are normally not subject to those elements of the Act governing form and content of an agreement. This is because the OFT has issued a Determination under Section 74(3) of the Act excluding overdraft agreements from the need to comply. As a result of this there is usually no written agreement that a consumer can request under Section 78 of the Act. However, I should note that any Bank wishing to avail itself of the benefit of the Determination must notify the OFT of its intention to do so and is required to provide information to the prospective debtor. Specifically, the creditor must provide, in writing, at the time the agreement is concluded or before details of the credit limit if any, the annual rate of interest and any charges available, and the process for terminating the agreement. Typically banks make such information readily available via a variety of media on an ongoing basis.

Best regards

Peter

 

Simon

Edited February 17, 2009 by simon the poet

[simon the poet]

Hi

I presume the line of reasoning for any action would be;

The bank did not contact the debtor with the information required ,therefore they are not entitled to benifit from the detemintion therefore they are not exempt from Part V of the act and must provide a copy of aan agreement.

Does that sound right

 

Simon

[MarkieMark]

I sometimes wonder what the OFT actually do.. This looks like a typically standard letter from them to say thanks but we are not interested. If they were any good things like this would be far and between.

[kellycraig]

Hello Everyone, i have just joined this forum and have been reading with interest, i really need some advice on where to start with taking on HSBC for i believe an unfair credit loan agreement taken out before April 2007 and a credit card agreement which was also taken out before April 2007. I have been put on to a managed loan with HSBC as i was falling behind with repayments on my credit card, the more and more i read about unfair credit agreements the more i think mine were unfair, but i do not know where to start with building a case to prove this. I have asked HSBC for original copies of both agreements, but its taken nearly two weeks for them to send them. I have looked over 100's of sites with regards to how i go about finding out whether they are unenforceable, and all i keep getting is solicitors charging nearly £500 just to have a look at your agreements which is day light robbery.

 

If someone out there can suggest where i start it would be very much appreciated. I have already been successful in getting back unfair bank charges, and think i could win this one also.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Many thanks

 

Kelly:confused:

[lexis200]

Hi Kelly

 

First of all, if that's your proper full name as your username, it might be worthwhile just choosing a nickname instead...just my opinion, as I wouldn't want everyone knowing my name and financial details;)

 

Anyway, first of all you need to set up a thread to post your agreement onto.

 

Click here to go straight to the HSBC threads HSBC Bank - The Consumer Forums then click on 'new thread' at the top of the page, and you're away.

 

For anyone to see your agreement obviously you'll have to post it up. Many people on here use Photobucket which is a free to use site. You can upload your pics and use the tools within the site to blank out any identifying details (make sure you do this with reference numbers on pages too).

 

Once that's done people will be able to help you, as without seeing an agreement it's a bit tricky:) Remember to include a bit of background too (you could just cut and paste the post you've already done as a start).

 

Lexis:)

[simon the poet]

Hello Everyone, i have just joined this forum and have been reading with interest, i really need some advice on where to start with taking on HSBC for i believe an unfair credit loan agreement taken out before April 2007 and a credit card agreement which was also taken out before April 2007. I have been put on to a managed loan with HSBC as i was falling behind with repayments on my credit card, the more and more i read about unfair credit agreements the more i think mine were unfair, but i do not know where to start with building a case to prove this. I have asked HSBC for original copies of both agreements, but its taken nearly two weeks for them to send them. I have looked over 100's of sites with regards to how i go about finding out whether they are unenforceable, and all i keep getting is solicitors charging nearly £500 just to have a look at your agreements which is day light robbery.

 

If someone out there can suggest where i start it would be very much appreciated. I have already been successful in getting back unfair bank charges, and think i could win this one also.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Many thanks

 

Kelly:confused:

 

Hi

This is a good place tp start

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/103383-agreement-enforceability.html

 

Simon

[whu1]

I had a call last night from NEXT directory informing me that I must stop obtaining any clothes and my account is to be frozen, when I asked why they said that a recent credit check of me had been made and my credit file is basically crap.

 

The only reason i can think of this is that in my disputes with the credit cards, capital one and Barclaycard have issued defaults on the credit file, hence the bad reference.

 

How can I get this stopped, as it is in dispute???????????

[car2403]

I had a call last night from NEXT directory informing me that I must stop obtaining any clothes and my account is to be frozen, when I asked why they said that a recent credit check of me had been made and my credit file is basically crap.

 

The only reason i can think of this is that in my disputes with the credit cards, capital one and Barclaycard have issued defaults on the credit file, hence the bad reference.

 

How can I get this stopped, as it is in dispute???????????

 

Checking your credit file would be a good place to start, so you can see what is going/has gone wrong.

[MAGDA]

I had a call last night from NEXT directory informing me that I must stop obtaining any clothes and my account is to be frozen, when I asked why they said that a recent credit check of me had been made and my credit file is basically crap.

 

The only reason i can think of this is that in my disputes with the credit cards, capital one and Barclaycard have issued defaults on the credit file, hence the bad reference.

 

How can I get this stopped, as it is in dispute???????????

 

Next and certain other companies are doing this as a matter of routine at the moment - checking customer credit files and placing a block on their account if it doesn't come up to scratch. This happened recently to someone I know who has been a Next customer for many years and has an umblemished record with them. When she queried it, they said that it is because of the uncertainty of the current financial climate. Magda

[Muffintop]

OMG this is worrying isnt it. I think maybe I best go and get a new phone contract while I can? 3 months into my cca request and 3 missed payments my credit file will be shot until at least 6 years or they take me to court and show me my cca

[car2403]

OMG this is worrying isnt it. I think maybe I best go and get a new phone contract while I can? 3 months into my cca request and 3 missed payments my credit file will be shot until at least 6 years or they take me to court and show me my cca

 

Or you sue them

[bathgatebuyer]

FOS might only expect the lender to provide the current ts and cs but that is not what section 78 and regs 3 and 7 say or what the head of the OFT told Sion Simon that they expect lenders to provide.

 

Thanks very much for that - I'll certainly dig out the quote from the OFT. Any suggestions where I can find it?

[bathgatebuyer]

Bathgate,

 

I think it would be worth your while writing back to the FOS to justify how they came to this conclusion - Possibly as a FOI request. The House of Lords in Wilson set out exactly what 'unenforceable' meant. See Lord Nicholls at paragraph 49:

 

 

So in my view the HoL has said unenforceable = inoperative.

 

From well established principles: where a Act uses the same word in different places it has the same meaning in every case unless it expressly says otherwise and that words have their plain english meaning.

 

The Oxford English Dictionary says 'inoperative' means "Without practical force, invalid".

 

It would be very interesting to see how the FOS justify their position.

 

Dad

 

Cheers for that - I certainly will! I think the real issue is the extent of the teeth which the FOS have. They initially returned my complaint saying, "Sorry - we can't deal with this" then suddenly it has become something they can deal with!

[tifo]

It would be very interesting to see how the FOS justify their position.

 

In my complaints, i've been asking the FOS to justify their position on clearly biased decisions but they won't respond, except to say decision made, accept or decline and off you go.

[conar686]

Next and certain other companies are doing this as a matter of routine at the moment - checking customer credit files and placing a block on their account if it doesn't come up to scratch. This happened recently to someone I know who has been a Next customer for many years and has an umblemished record with them. When she queried it, they said that it is because of the uncertainty of the current financial climate. Magda

 

Next gradually reduced my OHs limit to a pointless level for the same reasons, I sent them a CCA request and then stopped paying them when they failed to produce one.

 

The get all antse and threaten legal action but have'nt followed thro' if you can put up with and respond to the blizzard of mail then tell them to naff off and stop paying, providing they don't come up with the agreement of course.

 

There is no point in writing letters asking them to reverse the decision as they get ignored.

 

Next will be the 'next' to go to the wall, their business model is unsustainable.

[Muffintop]

two questions pse

Had letter from mbna following 3 months no payments and cca request bought up nothing, sar bought up nothing

they have told me they may take legal action now which will result in me getting a ccj or a charging order on my house

* How can they do that when they havent produced a valid cca

 

2nd question

 

they sent me a letter stating I quote

for the avoidance of doubt, the consumer credit act 1974 does not prohibit collection activity when an account is in dispute.

i have placed account in dispute as they havent sent cca. the account is in dispute as iv not paid them

I had told them they cant instruct dca or continue to chase the debt, this is a letter many of us are sending out and need to clarify if their above quotation is correct

[andrew1]

Send them a copy of this OFT Guidance section 2 .8 (k) http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf..

[Muffintop]

is it rubbish then Andrew? will print off your link