Cap1 & CCA return

[cadencealex]

Hi All

 

Got a letter this morning stating the following

 

Please note that the information we have provided you with is all the information we require to provide you with under section 78 of the consumer credit act. Please also note the we are not required to provide a copy of the original signed agreement under section 78 of the Consumer credit act.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but the do if I request it don't they?

 

Many Thanks

 

Scrapper Coco

 

 

They are being compliant with Section 78 by sending a generic copy, yes.

 

I received the same letter from two companies.

 

I think, though, if you request it under S10 of the Data Protection they have to send you the original OR state why they aren't.

 

Although Next denied me this (but then they don't have one for me)

 

It's all very confusing, they seem to do what they bloody well like

[Scrapper]

Thanks cadencealex

 

I thought that if they didn't supply you with a properly executed agreements i.e. with your signature on it they couldn't enforce the agreement.

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

Do you have a template for requesting information under the DPA and is the cost £10

 

 

Many Thanks

Scrapper Coco

[lexis200]

Hi Scrapper

 

Be careful with this - non compliance and unenforceability are two completely different things.

 

They can technically comply by sending a blank document (although it should be historically accurate, ie from the time the account was opened. You can argue this point till you're blue in the face though and they won't accept it) and the other necessary documents. However, just because that's what they've sent you for now does not mean they don't hold an enforceable agreement. It is possible that they send a blank one out in order to comply time-wise with the Act, and they'd need more time to search their archives to find your actual signed agreement. Unlikely but completely possible.

 

I would always err on the side of caution and try another avenue as well in order to get whatever information they have, such as the SAR mentioned before. There is a template on here for it, but if it is helpful I have fiddled with it a bit regarding the request for agreements/contracts in order to try and leave them no wiggle room. If you would like a copy pm me.

 

Bear in mind they may well not answer to this either, but it's more serious for them to ignore it and it does give you more of an idea of whether or not they hold the info you're after.

 

And, even though the CCA request rarely throws up what you want, I still believe it's a good thing to do in addition to everything else, as if it ever went to court (and everything I say/do with regard to the creditors is with this in mind) it shows you have done everything you can to get the right details from them, and they have just obstructed you despite your best efforts.

[Scrapper]

Thanks lexis200

 

Sorry to be so stupid, but how to I pm you and yes I would appreciate a copy of your letter.

 

Just so you no they have already ignored all my requests for any details until I sent them the I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY letter then I heard back from them with what I posted.

 

Many thanks

 

Scrapper Coco

[Scrapper]

lexis200

 

I worked it out so forget my previous request on how to PM

 

Many thanks

 

Scrapper Coco

[car2403]

lexis200

 

I worked it out so forget my previous request on how to PM

 

Many thanks

 

Scrapper Coco

 

For those that haven't worked it out...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html#post1042145

 

[bignozer]

Having been taken to court by a DCA back in Oct 2008, they were instructed to provide my signed cca & statement with in 21 days, I have been back to court this week, the DCA were unable to provide my cca 4 months later, the court have issused them with an Unless Order that they provide by 4.00PM 12/03/09 my signed cca the alledged debt will be struck off.

I now require any advice how I can pursue the dca in respect of all monies I have paid being repaid to me, because when they bought my debt they didn't have my cca which makes any action being unenforceable.

 

Yours

Mr Very Happy

[Guest dvdriley]

subbing

[simon the poet]

Having been taken to court by a DCA back in Oct 2008, they were instructed to provide my signed cca & statement with in 21 days, I have been back to court this week, the DCA were unable to provide my cca 4 months later, the court have issused them with an Unless Order that they provide by 4.00PM 12/03/09 my signed cca the alledged debt will be struck off.

I now require any advice how I can pursue the dca in respect of all monies I have paid being repaid to me, because when they bought my debt they didn't have my cca which makes any action being unenforceable.

 

Yours

Mr Very Happy

 

Hi

Was this a secured loan?

 

Simon

[cab1ne]

If an agreement is defaulted in July due to some arrears & then terminated in August because one did not comply with the default notice. we all know what the creditor is allowed to do.

 

To avoid any confusion lets not go into any unenforceable agreements, invalid defaults, or terminations. Lets just assume they are all correct.

 

“The point”

The creditor states the payments fall due on the 7th of every month.

So as I pay the arrears for the July default notice & my regular payments, then along comes the 15th august the TERMINATION pops thru the letter box “gob smacked” stating that I had not complied with the first default notice due to still being in arrears for the 7th August,(a bit confusing I know but it is legal).

So I get in touch with the creditor, they tell me to pay the arrears of £1299 / late payment fee £100/ + agent fees totalling £1898 to the DCA & then they would renew my agreement. I then think £1299 for one months arrears is a bit steep, so I dispute their claim via their in house complaint procedures.

Anyway time passes by as my complaint is being sorted, along comes the 18th October & bingo the DCA is knocking at my door demanding the £1898. I then escort the DCA off my property & then ask him to produce his documentation which clearly points out that they are collecting for the arrears covering August (that’s “ok”) September (“dodgy”) October (“very dodgy”) & if I could’nt pay they would repo the vehicle, being totally stupid & not having any legal knowledge at all I paid them.

 

“The question”

As they terminated the agreement in august, what gives them the right or what laws do they have for them to collect arrears for sept/oct ??? & what can I do to fight back at them.

[bignozer]

Hi Simon

 

No the loan wasn't secured

 

The loan was taken out in 1998 for 10k, I have paid back over 10k but the dca said I owed over 23k due to interest being added at 420 per month.

[car2403]

If an agreement is defaulted in July due to some arrears & then terminated in August because one did not comply with the default notice. we all know what the creditor is allowed to do.

 

To avoid any confusion lets not go into any unenforceable agreements, invalid defaults, or terminations. Lets just assume they are all correct.

 

“The point”

The creditor states the payments fall due on the 7th of every month.

So as I pay the arrears for the July default notice & my regular payments, then along comes the 15th august the TERMINATION pops thru the letter box “gob smacked” stating that I had not complied with the first default notice due to still being in arrears for the 7th August,(a bit confusing I know but it is legal).

So I get in touch with the creditor, they tell me to pay the arrears of £1299 / late payment fee £100/ + agent fees totalling £1898 to the DCA & then they would renew my agreement. I then think £1299 for one months arrears is a bit steep, so I dispute their claim via their in house complaint procedures.

Anyway time passes by as my complaint is being sorted, along comes the 18th October & bingo the DCA is knocking at my door demanding the £1898. I then escort the DCA off my property & then ask him to produce his documentation which clearly points out that they are collecting for the arrears covering August (that’s “ok”) September (“dodgy”) October (“very dodgy”) & if I could’nt pay they would repo the vehicle, being totally stupid & not having any legal knowledge at all I paid them.

 

“The question”

As they terminated the agreement in august, what gives them the right or what laws do they have for them to collect arrears for sept/oct ??? & what can I do to fight back at them.

 

What was the DN issued for? Was it arrears, or was it arrears within 14 days plus the balance of the account? If it was the first, was the payment made within the 14 days?

 

I think you'd be better off having a thread on this one, as this is getting a but technical based on the circumstances of your individual claim.

[bignozer]

Hi

 

Not sure what you mean subbing?

 

Can you please explain

 

Regards

[cab1ne]

What was the DN issued for? Was it arrears, or was it arrears within 14 days plus the balance of the account? If it was the first, was the payment made within the 14 days?

 

I think you'd be better off having a thread on this one, as this is getting a but technical based on the circumstances of your individual claim.

 

my case is technical

 

thread

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/181761-lombard-agreement-help-2.html

[simon the poet]

HI

The only casses i am aware of where the full sum was reinstated to the debtor were when some form of security was being held and section 106 was used to recover the full amount paid .

In your case i would certainly not be paying any interest on the agreement as it was at the very least improperly executed and may not even exist,so they would have a difficult job in convicing a court on the amount of interest due.

As for the amount that you have repaid i do not think that you would be successful in reclaiming that, in other cases the courts have said that the debtor would have to prove that they were forced to pay against their will in order for the payments to be unlawful.

 

I would send them a letter saying that the monies loaned had been repayed in full and since there is no actionable record of any agreement between yourselves indicating other monies were due no further payments would be made.

 

imon

[foolishgirl]

Hi

 

Not sure what you mean subbing?

 

Can you please explain

 

Regards

 

Subscribing to this thread. The poster then gets automatic notification of any new posts added.

 

Much easier way to subscribe:

 

Go to the toolbar at the top of the thread, click Thread Tools, click Subscribe (or unsubscribe if you don't want to continue with notifications).

 

Done!

[cab1ne]

i know this DN has its problems due to the dates but assuming it is correct

 

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt13/flinty56/lombdef01-1-1.jpg

 

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt13/flinty56/lombdef01-2-1.jpg

 

i know this TN has its problems due to the dates on the DN but assuming it is correct

 

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt13/flinty56/lombterm01-1.jpg

 

iam trying to seek advice on the DCA

[car2403]

As for the amount that you have repaid i do not think that you would be successful in reclaiming that, in other cases the courts have said that the debtor would have to prove that they were forced to pay against their will in order for the payments to be unlawful.

 

Which cases are those?

[MAGDA]

QUOTE: ORIGINALLY POSTED BY CAR2403: "

Overdraft agreements are regulated by the CCA, however - despite the Banks' efforts to blind consumers with legal mumbo-jumbo to hide the facts - so are challengable on the same grounds as any CCA. The only difference will be that Overdrafts are exempt from the Agreement regulations due to a s.74 CCA 1974 Determination issued by the OFT - to benefit from the Determination, however, the Bank has to comply with it's terms, meaning they have to send you details of the interest rate and charges applicable when you apply for the Overdraft, or shortly afterwards, plus how they will terminate the agreement. If they don't comply with the Determination, the debt will be unenforceable in Court. This is a little gem that they don't want you to know, but it does work, believe me;" END QUOTE

 

Hi I have been having ongoing problems with Natwest. I asked them some time ago for a copy of the letter (details) that should have been sent out at the inception of the O/D. They wrote back and stated that they do not have any copy letter or anything else. I'm just wondering, does the fact that the rate of interest and amount of authorised o/d was stated on the monthly statements they sent out, affect the statement made above.

 

Many thanks, Magda

[car2403]

Hi I have been having ongoing problems with Natwest. I asked them some time ago for a copy of the letter (details) that should have been sent out at the inception of the O/D. They wrote back and stated that they do not have any copy letter or anything else. I'm just wondering, does the fact that the rate of interest and amount of authorised o/d was stated on the monthly statements they sent out, affect the statement made above.

 

Many thanks, Magda

 

Well, it might sway a Judge, so you'd need to have your arguments prepared, but no - they would need to show that you had received this information prior to you using the overdraft. Of course you'll argue you were prejudiced by receiving that prescribed information after you've used the overdraft, as that altered the balance of the parties abilities to enter in to the agreement knowing the full facts.

[citizenB]

Could those with more knowledge, please pop along to the following thread (post 83) and give gazza their opinion. Many thanks.

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/159662-gazza112-halifax-credit-card-9.html#post1979703

[MAGDA]

Well, it might sway a Judge, so you'd need to have your arguments prepared, but no - they would need to show that you had received this information prior to you using the overdraft. Of course you'll argue you were prejudiced by receiving that prescribed information after you've used the overdraft, as that altered the balance of the parties abilities to enter in to the agreement knowing the full facts.

 

Thanks for that car, that's a big help as I just wanted to get my facts straight. Magda

[simon the poet]

Which cases are those?

 

 

These are poeople who have posted on here and gone through all this many moons ago and now some of whom post elswhere.

 

One well known lady hasd a similar experiance and won her case over a failure to send copy agreements she in particular is the case i am thinking about but there are others.

 

Simon

[simon the poet]

QUOTE: ORIGINALLY POSTED BY CAR2403: "

Overdraft agreements are regulated by the CCA, however - despite the Banks' efforts to blind consumers with legal mumbo-jumbo to hide the facts - so are challengable on the same grounds as any CCA. The only difference will be that Overdrafts are exempt from the Agreement regulations due to a s.74 CCA 1974 Determination issued by the OFT - to benefit from the Determination, however, the Bank has to comply with it's terms, meaning they have to send you details of the interest rate and charges applicable when you apply for the Overdraft, or shortly afterwards, plus how they will terminate the agreement. If they don't comply with the Determination, the debt will be unenforceable in Court. This is a little gem that they don't want you to know, but it does work, believe me;" END QUOTE

 

Hi I have been having ongoing problems with Natwest. I asked them some time ago for a copy of the letter (details) that should have been sent out at the inception of the O/D. They wrote back and stated that they do not have any copy letter or anything else. I'm just wondering, does the fact that the rate of interest and amount of authorised o/d was stated on the monthly statements they sent out, affect the statement made above.

 

Many thanks, Magda

 

HI

I was told by the OFT the it was acceptable to have the information regarding overdraft interest available on the website and this would satisfy the terms of the determination.

Simon

[Jeff2000]

Yes that is correct

 

 

 

It is, therefore, flawed!

 

 

 

Have a little peek at my thread;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/72876-mercers-barclaycard.html