thanks has Slick got view of this or do I need to pm him as we desperately want to get ball moving on this one

My husband had a business which ceased trading as a result of this my husband had a loan, which he had to pay back to the bank, to pay all the debts, which the bank called in the (overdraft) he had been given. He was a sole trader, . He was supposed to be paying £200PCM via direct debit he would transfer money to this account or pay in cheques to cover the payments. The cheques that went into the account were made payable to ***** He was apparently four months behind on payments but was unaware of this. He works for his father’s business now, and is a signatory on the account. His father is the director and this is a limited company. Both accounts for both companys are held with Barclays, obviously separate accounts and account numbers, with no connection between the two companys. In October he went to the bank in order to pay cheques x 3 into his fathers business which is the limited company, the cheques were made out to this company. Somehow my husband who had a paying in book for his old company in his drawer, managed to complete the wrong paying in book and presented the cashier without him knowing three separate cheques which were made out to his fathers business. The cashier did not pick up on this error and they got accepted and paid into his sole trader business account via the banking system. This account is in a completely different name so there could be no confusion. These cheques have cleared. My father noticed that there had not been a deposit into the company bank account and queried this with me, I checked the paying in books and realised I had made an error and rang the bank. I was told that they couldn’t deal with the issue at the branch and I had to contact the Head Office Complaints Department and generate a complaint. I did this and was given a reference number and was told this could take 10 – 12 days. I rang again a week later and was told because I am a signatory on both accounts they can keep the money because my account was in arrears! Its like a cheque being paid out to fred blogs but its paid into a completely different persons account but the bank says well sorry we have taken it now. I understand the right to offset but this isn’t the right to offset rules. the way I see it as my fathers business is a substantial amount of money down which is affecting his business, c ausing bank charges and interest being lost. I should be able to claim all of these costs back. Can someone advice me what to do quickly, I think put it in writing but to who? And to speak to FOS but I also think put in a civil claim now. Advise urgently pls people greatly appreciated.

Lloyds solicitors have rung husband today and asked for a monthly negotiation figure of under 500 a month if he can negotiate something they will go ahead under a tomlin order. they wont freeze interest though but have lowered it a bit. What do you think? got to be better than a charging order

true, thanks very much will keep you informed

Case moved to our local court. Hearing date received today for 15 Aug copy of the request I made to defend attached to it, no directions from DJ as to whether this has been agreed? I am assuming it has and as per previous posts after going through official complaints process re duress with Lloyds we can see that we are stuffed in any defense to taking out this loan and best to try to bat off any charging order. This means that we have 8 weeks to challenge the results of the complaint with Lloyds or go to FOS and if we dont they are willing to negotiate with us.. Should I therefore let court know that following results of our complaint we have decided to enter into negotiations with Lloyds prior to court and we are not wishing to defend the taking out of the loan any longer and as we are negotiating can we ask for a stay until this has been finalised? dont want the court to think we are defending when we are not. Of course we will defend any subsequent charging order. Any advise pse

HI Guys just checking in... nothing to report at moment apart from been transferred to our local court and have been in negotiation with Lloyds who have said they want to wait for a response to our written complaint about duress before we re commence any negotiations.... suits me sir.. may then defer longer if take it to fos... all giving us time to sell anything we have to raise some money as a bargaining tool...

I think worth a punt too, start low then you have somewhere to go to..yes you can asked for it to be transferred to your local court. I requested this for ours and its coming over.. watching with interest as we are just behind you. Only thing holding our court case at the moment is we made official complaint to bank and they have to respond fully within 8 weeks, will prob then go to fos and extend the complaint a little longer

Right thanks... so I dont see the point of defending charging order on the grounds that Lloyds would get preferential treatment over unsecured debts, as it only hightlights that they exist. I cant find sequences thread on charging orders can anyone give me the name of thread of a link pse

Is it possible to have loads of charging orders on your house or just one? ie could Lloyds put on on with a secured debt .. and the credit cards also get one for unsecured debts?

Lloyds sent us letter today re the sar we requested and why it was declined. As the request was for information pertaining to a Limited Company (now in liquidation) which is in itself a dinstinct legal entity, for which you are no longer a director, you are not entitled to information you requested as per your letter. With express written authority from Lieuidator the ban k may be able to provide some of the information you have requested. We DID NOT TAKE OUT PPI Insurance.! So husband now needs to negotiate with Lloyds or show that he has tried to.. advise court that no longer wish to defend and sit back and wait for Lloyds response.. I have no doubt they will continue with the court case but at least we will have a paper trail to show we have tried to fairly negotiate with them and then try to defend any charging order.

Thanks guys for all the support. Can I ask you hang around on my thread for a bit longer to see what unfolds and to get any further opinions on charging order situation and what happens with the court cse if any. I do intend to advise husband to ring Lloyds re the PPI.. put it in writing and seek advise from the Information Commissioner on this issue as it may show Lloyds have been obstructive in providing information. I dont understand why a defense to a charging order is that it would give preferential treatment to one creditor? can anyone answer above. This is the sticking point my husband and I interpret in different ways. If a charging order is granted to Lloyds this would give all the other people my husband owes money to a disadvantage as they wouldnt have a similiar charging order. These debts are credit cards which have been in dispute for a couple of years following a request for cca from them, all pre 2004 credit cards. However if we put this forward as a defense to a co the judge may say 'I agree the other debtors will be disadvantaged, even though they are in dispute at the moment this may not be forever and even though you can pay 250 at the moment, you may not be able to pay this if these debts become enforceable' In those circumstances he may say, I dont feel you can pay 250 a month and I think that a charging order would be best option. As far as other debts go, husband isnt on a payment plan with cccs as I am, because he doesnt want to acknowledge the debts due to failure from them to provide cca since 2007 and numerous requests sent formerlly, there seems a debate on this I have subbed to here on default notices.. I did acknowledge my debts pay them via cccs and have a trashed credit file which appears to be able to extended beyond the 6 years I thought I had a prison sentence, apparently if you dont acknowledge them or pay them at all they drop off! so me doing the right thing is actually the wrong thing.

Hi read all above posts thanks. Reason I have turned around my decision to attempt to defend a indemnity guarantee, is because any defense we had was weak and we cannot afford to end up in a worse case of debt than we started with ie with costs and solicitors fees, I didnt realise at that stage that any sar would be fruitless as the debt came from a business overdraft and loan which were consolidated into a guarantee and indemnity loan secured on my husband as the only director at that time of a business which has since been disolved and is with the administrators. Hence he cannot obtain information about any ppi from any past statements as he doesnt have them, the administrators do, he cannot get info on subject access request it seems from when he had the original business overdraft and business loan as its not a SUBJECT but a company. I still intend to pursue this with information commissioner for clarity. I now feel that its better to swallow it and try to negotiate either a payment plan they will accept or a f and f... however 0h already offered 250 a month and they wont have it unless he signs to accept a charging order as well.. I guess at least he hasnt accepted this and is prepared to go to court to see what the dj decides on this . This leads me to the 3rd part of my decision and the problems I face with this. I am very worn down with this now and tired stressed.. I am reading thread after thread on charging orders now to be ready for any suggestion of this in the event of court case continuing.. but the information and the way I perceive that information to read my husband and I interpret in different ways. The way I see it is: I can defend an interim charging order on the following grounds.. I have a serious illness that will not go away and although work am registered disabled. House is adapted to my needs We have 2 stepchildren under age of 18 who we have shared care for and again house expecially big enough and close enough to their school for this purpose I have a daughter still in full time education living at home This is the sticking point my husband and I interpret in different ways. If a charging order is granted to Lloyds this would give all the other people my husband owes money to a disadvantage as they wouldnt have a similiar charging order. These debts are credit cards which have been in dispute for a couple of years following a request for cca from them, all pre 2004 credit cards. However if we put this forward as a defense to a co the judge may say 'I agree the other debtors will be disadvantaged, even though they are in dispute at the moment this may not be forever and even though you can pay 250 at the moment, you may not be able to pay this if these debts become enforceable' In those circumstances he may say, I dont feel you can pay 250 a month and I think that a charging order would be best option. This is whats causing us to see this scenario in different ways and as such it is difficult to make representation to Lloyds in negotiation of why we feel a charging order wouldnt be granted to them, or to sort out what offer we should make, ie stay with the 250 a month which is best for us or make a f and f which means we are selling everything that we can to raise some money which wont be enough. No, the liquidators, administrators dont know about this issue at the moment and oh is clarifying with them tomorrow that they arent paying any money back to Lloyds as well as us paying money back as well hence possible duplication of the debt.. as far as any PPI, cant see how it would benefit us to tell administrators about this possibility until we know if there is any PPI taken out and this is the sticking point as Lloyds wont tell us as it relates to a company which is now disolved.. Just started the blood pressure tablets!

thanks,, I know the right thing to do is withdraw defense and challenge the charging order. I do not want another 10k debt. I will then challenge any charging order threat as this is something I feel more comfortable with. I have decided to ring court Mon or Tues and ask how to withdraw defense and husband can speak to other side and see what their thoughts are on a full and final, this will also be put in writing for our records and as evidence for a dj in case of co being requested.

Thankyou Mould.. it can wear you right down when you have more than one legal issue to contend with and this is way out of my depth. thankyou too Donkey, I spent a week ringing solicitors no one will give us free legal advice prob due to our jobs, wage house having equity, the ones that would even consider seeings us wanted 350 plus an hour, or one solicitor 1800 on account. I dont want to flog a dead horse,, excuse the pun Donkey, I think were stuffed with the guarantee and indemnity thing, (hopefully someone reading this thread will think before they sign one in future) we may be able to raise 15k and I can tell husband this is more of a realistic figure (expecially if there is ppi to reclaim) He can speak to administrators on tuesday morning when were back at work and request paperwork and gives them the heads up on the possible ppi. We can also negotiate with the otherside Tuesday although its confusing as theres the bank who are the claimants and then the solicitors who are like rotweillers. Most of all husband did admit the debt.. I got involved and clouded the issue by asking to be able to put a defense and now im saying hold on Iv changed my mind.. How do I advise court that we have decided not to defend the case afterall

Maybe we might be able to borrow the money in the interim to selling the car... but how do I now withdraw my request to defend the case.. my n244 which has been received. I can then defend what I stand a good chance of winning the co

Whats the N245 for please.. is it only submitted wen ICO given? Just re read further up can see what 245 is for but can It be submitted prior to attending court case or should we just write offering full and final settlement or payment plan

I agree Peter, withdraw and recamp.. How do you withdraw a request to lodge a defense N244 without judge thinking we have wasted their time when we didnt have a defense in the first place that we were going to lodge. Should I ring court Tuesday and put a stop on it or write and say we are withdrawing defense. Does this mean we can still have it held in our local court... rather than Leeds which may as well be another country from where we are. Do we take all our defences re any proposal for charging order with us and try to negotiate a full and final prior to court, other party wouldnt negotiate with us when husband offered a substantial payment monthly so would they negotiate a figure less than the full amount to avoid court? they wanted charging order or nothing.. should we disclose that we have lots of other debtors so this wouldnt be appropriate

Could we go Freedom Of Information Act?

After looking back through older posts feel could defend a charging order expecially as we can stomp up around 10k of the 23 or so k... as a f and f... selling everything that moves to raise money in anticipation. Plus I have a disability .. my husband has lots of other credit cards that he hasnt paid since 2008 when he applied for ccas and never got any back (they are all well pre 2004) he is not on a dmp though and hasnt made any token payments as he feels that he is disputing the debt and not got a response.. but this does mean he owes lots of other creditors. Could this still go towards a defense for a charging order. Not sure at what stage we defend a charging order, if we go to court on this one and get a judgement for charging order do we defend at the same time? Still reading reading... I still trying to find out if information commissoner is route we could go to get our sar request upheld.. im sure there is something they dont want us to see.

Just want to say a big thanks to you all, I know I have some serious experience on this thread and I thank you guys for putting yourself out.

I very much doubt it but I will check later on x

Husband signed as person not as director... they have him by the b &&*** he doesnt recognise the witness and there is no date on the same page as his signature, but he isnt in dispute he took out the loan... I can see that we have no proof around duress and from reading other case law it does not seem unusual for bank manager to push for someone to sign indemnity guarantee and come to their work premises.. we do not have any paperwork as all with the administrators and they have now gone and got the bank manager who got the loan signed up and did all the pushing to make an immediate statement, of course they are covering their ar...s and as they have a paper trail and we dont we dont stand a chance. Im now really worried that we shouldnt have sent in n244 to ask to defend claim,, I asked also to await all paperwork from sar but now can see they say they dont have to send it to us... if there was any ppi it would give us a bargaining tool and we know it would go to the administrators from the disolved company but it would still make the debt less or give us a bargaining tool for a full and final. SHOULD I WITHDRAW MY REQUEST TO DEFEND as Im really scared now that we will end up paying costs and could be in a worse state.. beginning to get on top of me and make me feel very stressed .. I dont see that we have a defense that we can prove other than a pushy bank manager who had a hold over a director of a company he had run for 20 years and needed the overdraft to continue.. at end of day HE SIGNED IT. I dont feel competant to defend this and we have had no luck finding a solicitor who wants to deal with it ultimately this could cost us another 10k and still not win. What do you guys honestly think try for a f and f and defend charging order? or fight first to get the sar information... we could also let administrators know that there may be a ppi to come from it

Thanks Caro and Peter I will look into this as I have no knowledge of this type of order. Peter I will read the case law you mention. On another note Bank have phoned husband (which is not appropriate and I have said we want everything in writing) to say he cannot have his SAR request as its a limited company. IT WAS it has been disolved since last October ish time... I cant get my head around how he can have a directors loan, indemnity guarantee on a loan that he took out whilst he was director of the business relating to bank overdraft which was forced into a bank loan otherwise they would pull it back immediately. However he is not allowed to find out if he had been sold PPI as well or what charges he had incurred... I think they have tried to stop him having this info as they think that he may be able to claim PPI back or they are hiding something.. Is it the information comissioner that you make complaints re data protection about? I dont think you can use freedom of information act with banking? Need to fire a letter somewhere to stand up for our cause.. Andrew has mentioned that of course a ltd business has to keep paperwork for 6 years but as its disolved and in the hands of the administrators we dont have this and the loan was as a result of the business and is now on the individual so they should play ball.

Hi Peter, Your so right, I should know that files need to be organised, this will assist with defense as you say and be good to take to court in this format. After a heavy week of ringing solicitors I think we have come to the conclusion that no one really wants to touch a guarantee and indemnity agreement.. let alone challenge it on such weak grounds.. I ahve finished reading just one of the case law links you sent thankyou the company KFC whose defense was a whole lot weightier than ours and he lost, I dont think we stand a hope in hell of getting our agreement quashed and I think we would be best placed in trying to be reading for any charging order that the dj may issue along with ccj judgement. Im glad that I asked for us to be able to file a defense as it meant that I bought time by asking for sar and any ppi insurance (if we have got ppi with that loan we could take that into consideration to negotiate a f and f settlment otherwise this would be put forward to dj at the time as we would only claim it back) The bank have replied within days which is laughable really when you think how long a sar request was taking with banks cca requests... just shows they chose to ignore those requests as they knew they didnt have the agreements in majority of the cases... anyway digress... the bank acknowledged sar and our complaint and also contacted the bank manager who sold the indemnity and guarantee loan and got a statement from him already.. they are covering their arses.... after reading oft guidelines on charging order and the fact we have tried to negotiate a figure to repay so have played ball I think we would be best to forget the loan and try to damage limitation in relation to any charging order.. obviouisly this makes it hard for me to file a defense now as I dont have one! apart from I wanted to wait for documentation prior to the case continuing, just hope the judge doesnt get the hump over this and think we have wasted time.. We have some involvency issues to sort out also with administrators and everything is too much for my brain along with my day job which is more file compilation.. Your advice over the organisation of the material is sound thanks.. will keep this updated as it happens and keep reading shazzas thread on the charging order.