Developments the day before an ET!!!!! *************Won********* ******

[hhh_88873]

Shift changes are fine, but not constantly having me do it. When I finish one shift, have to get up again a few hours later to go do site visits, then go home, then get up again to go do my usual shifts, thats not on. And as for the provisions, theres no way they can ask me to finish at midnight, travel half an hour to get home, then have to do up 4 hours later to travel an hour and a half to another site. Thats just them taking the michael.

[Marieleeza]

Shift changes are fine, but not constantly having me do it. When I finish one shift, have to get up again a few hours later to go do site visits, then go home, then get up again to go do my usual shifts, thats not on. And as for the provisions, theres no way they can ask me to finish at midnight, travel half an hour to get home, then have to do up 4 hours later to travel an hour and a half to another site. Thats just them taking the michael.

Can you show this on paper or did they withold the timesheets?

[hhh_88873]

They STILL havent released any documents, but yes I can show it on my own rotas and entries in my company notebook.

[Marieleeza]

They STILL havent released any documents, but yes I can show it on my own rotas and entries in my company notebook.

 

That is better than nothing. Can you cross reference the hours with your payslips? That might help.

[hhh_88873]

My rotas are the ones that are given to me by the management, so it comes directly from them, so they cant argue it. And my payslips just showed my salary, plus any overtime and my fuel expenses. It doesnt specify my hours (where and when etc.)

[RachelMD]

But again, you need to reference your claim to legislation and the case law resulting from it.

 

An ET will not consider whether the ER's actions constituted 'taking the mick'.

[hhh_88873]

I wouldnt need to. Ive got the working time directive as issued, with their company logo on it specifying rest periods. and the rest periods they say they adhere to arent anywhere near what they gave me.

[Marieleeza]

My rotas are the ones that are given to me by the management, so it comes directly from them, so they cant argue it. And my payslips just showed my salary, plus any overtime and my fuel expenses. It doesnt specify my hours (where and when etc.)

 

I realise that but if, say on a monthly basis you could show the value of the hours paid is the same as the number of scheduled hours on the rota it would back it up a bit.

 

This could be set out clearly in an excel table and might stand you in good stead if the employer tries to produce doctored documents or argue that you did not actually work all the rostered hours.

 

Just a thought really, it might not be worth the effort.

[hhh_88873]

I dont think Ill need to tbh. Ive got enough of my rota sheets and so on to prove their meddling if they do try to doctor timesheets. Theyve already seen those in my evidence bundle that I sent to them. Ive said they didnt always make me do it, but they asked me to do it enough times that it was affecting my health and being a risk to other people to not have enough rest due to the miles I was doing. When you think my mileage allowance was 40p a mile, and I was regularly being paid £200+ a fortnight for fuel alone, youll realise the amount of miles I was doing for them.

[hhh_88873]

The other problem to that may be that I was salaried, not hourly paid. I was only paid hourly when I went over 48 hours. I was paid my salary whether I did 48 hours or not during the week, and got my overtime when I went over that. (More often than not I went soaring over it by 20 odd hours or more)

[Marieleeza]

I dont think Ill need to tbh. Ive got enough of my rota sheets and so on to prove their meddling if they do try to doctor timesheets. Theyve already seen those in my evidence bundle that I sent to them. Ive said they didnt always make me do it, but they asked me to do it enough times that it was affecting my health and being a risk to other people to not have enough rest due to the miles I was doing. When you think my mileage allowance was 40p a mile, and I was regularly being paid £200+ a fortnight for fuel alone, youll realise the amount of miles I was doing for them.

 

I think the mileage allowance is a good illustraton and would be easily understood by the judges. However, this part of your evidence is crucial and I would get it in the best possible order and set it out and summarise it as clearly as I could. Anything you can to avoid making the panel sift through a load of rotas, payslips and fuel payments may well be appreciated.

[hhh_88873]

Well my payslips state fuel allwoance and its not a small amount of money. Ive got loads of my fuel allowance sheets that I had to send in to get paid for my fuel, and they had to show what trips I made on what date, and that would back up the claims Ive made. Ie, four trips in one day would demonstrate my going to my usual shift, and then home, and then going out again later to do the checks I mentioned, and then home again. It would also show where I had to travel to on each day, and being the shift pattern of those sites, would demonstrate the tiny amount of rest I was getting between shifts.

[Marieleeza]

Well my payslips state fuel allwoance and its not a small amount of money. Ive got loads of my fuel allowance sheets that I had to send in to get paid for my fuel, and they had to show what trips I made on what date, and that would back up the claims Ive made. Ie, four trips in one day would demonstrate my going to my usual shift, and then home, and then going out again later to do the checks I mentioned, and then home again. It would also show where I had to travel to on each day, and being the shift pattern of those sites, would demonstrate the tiny amount of rest I was getting between shifts.

 

I think this is good evidence but feel that you need to set it out so that it is easily understood. A verbal explanation does not really make it clear but I think it would become chrystal, if you could show amounts, mileage, dates, locations in a summary.

[RachelMD]

I wouldnt need to. Ive got the working time directive as issued, with their company logo on it specifying rest periods. and the rest periods they say they adhere to arent anywhere near what they gave me.

I don't understand, H.

The Working Time Regulations is a piece of legislation. That is what any claim would be based on.

 

What have they given you exactly?

If it's contractual provision (they stated that you would receive a certain amount of rest yet in practice you didn't), which they haven't adhered to, then you might have a claim of breach of contract- but that doesn't mean they have contravened their statutory obligation.

[hhh_88873]

Its a piece of documentation where they rabbit on about working time directives and they say no member of staff will be made to work in breach of required rest periods.

 

Ill post it out word for word when I can find it.

[RachelMD]

Aye, we need to look at that and see what the agreement was (if any).

[hhh_88873]

Ok, this is the document in full.

 

 

Working Time Regulations 1998

Policy

 

It is the policy of the company to work within the legislation set out in the Working Time Regulations.

 

Guidelines for Managers

Maximum Working Week

The manager must take all reasonable steps to ensure that an employees average working time, including overtime, does not exceed 48 hours for each 7 day period. Average working time must be calculated over a 17 week period. Where an employee has been employed for less than 17 weeks, average working time is calculated by reference to the number of weeks since he or she started work.

 

Employees can agree to opt-out of the 48 hour limit on the working week. For the agreement to be valid, It mist:

 

Be in writing.

State whether it relates to a specific or indefinite period, and

Be terminable by the employee giving notice in writing. (three months)

 

An up to date list of such employees must be maintained by keeping copies of opt-out agreements on the employees personnel files.

 

Daily Rest

 

Adult workers are entitled to 11 consecutive hours of rest in each 24 hour period during which they work for the company.

 

Weekly Rest

Adult workers are entitled to an uninterrupted rest period of not less than 24 hours in each 7 day period. This must be in addition to daily rest periods.

 

The weekly rest entitlements, which may be averaged over 14 days are as follows;

 

Two rest periods of not less than 24 hours during 14 days or

One uninterrrupted rest period of not less than 48 hours in a 14 day period

 

1. Monitor employees hours and shift patterns to identify employees working in excess of the limits

2. Arrange a meeting with the identified employees to discuss the Working Time Regulations, sent out (appendix 5BI). Where employees wish to continue to work in excess of the limits they must complete an opt-out agreement (Appendix5BII).

A copy should be given to the employee and a copy kept on file.

 

Employees who do not wish to work over the prescribed limit of 48 hours cannot be made to do so. However, If an employee wishes to reduce their working hours after signing the agreement, they must give the Company 3 months notice in writing.

 

Night Workers

Employees working night shift i.e. between 2300 and 0600 must be given the opportunity to have a health assessment before starting work and at regular intervals.

 

Please refer to section 13 of the health and safety manual for the health screen questionnaire.

[RachelMD]

Did you sign to opt-out of the 48 hour limit?

[RachelMD]

OK, so if this is the company policy. It says nothing about your work being shift work and it does state an entitlement to 11 consecutive hours rest in each 24 hour period they work for the company.

So, if you didn't receive that, you might have a claim of breach of contract. Might.

 

That doesn't mean necessarily that they've contravened the WTR though.

You need to have a damn good read of the WTR, bearing closely in mind that you were working in the security industry. I think you might well find, if you're objective, that they haven't contravened statute.

[hhh_88873]

I signed nothing regarding the 48 hour limit since my salary was based on working 48 hours. Nor did I get any medical assessment.

[hhh_88873]

Ok so Ive now received the evidence bundle from my ex eployer. Theyve included a load of stuff I dont get, the rotas that theyve put in dont match the ones they originally gave me.They have also included a statement from the arresting officer, on official police paper work, I dont know hoe thats relevant, since his job is to make the arrest and put the evidence before the cps. Thats the end of his involvement, his personal opinions dont matter as far as I know.Theyve also included stills of the cctv that the judge has already said she isnt interested in seeing. Theyve put in their own findings on the human rights act etc which backs up EXACTLY what ive been saying, so if theyve put that in their own evidence bundle then they are clearly accepting the legislation as relevant.Any one got any thoughts?

[hhh_88873]

Im going to be emailing the judge to ask her to strike out the evidence bundle in tis enirety as well due to the excesive delay in it being filed, or at the very least impose sanctions on the employer for taking the mickey.

[hhh_88873]

Ok a union guy Ive just spoken to has mentioned busting the 12 month rule be asserting the dismissal was on the grounds of health and safety, ie protecting myself or others from imminent injury or danger. As the company, police and all witnesses have asserted that there was an imminent attack and possibility of injury from the youths involved then that may just swing it. What do you reckon?

[Marieleeza]

Ok a union guy Ive just spoken to has mentioned busting the 12 month rule be asserting the dismissal was on the grounds of health and safety, ie protecting myself or others from imminent injury or danger. As the company, police and all witnesses have asserted that there was an imminent attack and possibility of injury from the youths involved then that may just swing it. What do you reckon?

 

 

That is saying that you were protecting yourself or an individual from harm and it comes under Whistleblowing.I found this reference with some case summaries.http://www.pcaw.co.uk/law/casesummaries.htm

[hhh_88873]

Thats what I was getting at yes. I looked into that and told them it was self defence to start with but they didnt listen.The statement from the police officer that arrested me (which Ive applied to have removed from the evidence bundle) states quite clearly that the group were behaving in a threatening manner and making threats, and the self defense stuff that Ive researched says quite clearly I can act in my own self defence even in the threat of an attack.