Developments the day before an ET!!!!! *************Won********* ******

[hhh_88873]

Hi.

 

I have a ET hearing scheduled for the 7th July. Case management ordered the exchange of all relevant documents by the 5th May. I asked my former employer for a brief extension due to personal reasons, they agreed, and I subsequently sent off all documents that I was prepared to release.

 

They however have not sent me anything. Nothing at all. I have emailed them 3 times reminding them and have heard nothing.

 

I have decided to email the ET service and ask them for help, and have included a respectful request for the judge to strike out any response from them on the grounds that they are intentionally dithering and trying to f**k me about for lack of a better word, and to find in my favour without the need for a hearing.

 

That was a few days ago now and im still getting silence from both my former employer and the ET service.

 

Can anyone advise?

 

Ta

[RachelMD]

Keep on at both of them, and keep records of all attempts.

Sadly, this is par for the course.

[hhh_88873]

Isnt it in my favour that they breached the initial deadline, and then the deadline that they themselves agreed to?

[RachelMD]

You'd hope so. But EJ's are notoriously apathetic about these aspects of procedure. Just keep plugging away.

You have to prepare yourself for the 'worst case scenario' of the ER showing up on the day of ET, chucking a phone book size bundle in front of you and the EJ not giving a monkeys.

[hhh_88873]

I was under the impression that EJ's were on the side of the employee by law until such time as the employer had proved their defence? And Ive seen their evidence list, its not much, and certainly not enough to counter what Im bringing, but even if they chuck what Im asking for at me on the day, surely I can ask for it all to be struck off as evidence as theyve had ample time to produce it before hand? This is the same firm that filed defence to the ET1 form on the last day of the window at 17.20 in the evening after all, so its not going to be hard to prove they have form for dragging their feet.

[RachelMD]

EJ's aren't on anyones side. They just apply law.

You can ask for evidence to be thrown out, and it might be. Or it might not.

Remember, AFAIK, EJ's are all legal professionals who started out their working lives doing the same job as the respondants representative. They quite probably used all the same dirty little tricks that solicitors use before them daily. My impression is that many see such as a legitimate part of the game.

[Marco73]

I had the same problem with my ex employer. I made a claim for unpaid holidays and notice pay but ex said I had taken all holidays and then some. I asked for my personnel file which he wouldn't provide. I wrote to ET asking for an order of disclosure against ex, which was granted. Ex then wrote to ET telling them he had no evidence. i.e. no personnel folder or proof of holidays, attendance and punctuality.

Because of this I again wrote to ET asking for a strike out as there was no case to answer from employers side. I got a reply saying all issues would be dealt with on day of hearing.

 

I produced 6 copies of all evidence I was using but as there was a judge sitting alone I only needed 3 copies.

Ex employer on the other hand turned up with just a statement which he initially told the ET he didn't have.

He was allowed to produce his evidence (statement) despite not disclosing it to me and ignoring an order so just be prepared like Rachel said that your employer may turn up with documents that you haven't seen.

The EJ's will make their mind up who they believe when they see all the evidence. I personally believe that they don't care who gave who what and when. It's all on the day.

[hhh_88873]

Well I emailed th ET service one the 23rd, No reply. Emailed them again today, still no reply.

[RachelMD]

Keep on keeping a record.

[hhh_88873]

They are all in my email outbox. Should I print of the emails and present them at the ET as an example of me attempting to follow the rules?

[RachelMD]

Yes. Definitely.

[hhh_88873]

That will show that theyve ignored me for up to two weeks before the hearing tho, wont it **** the judge off if I say that his/her service havent done their jobs right?

[RachelMD]

Don't know, H. Not necessarily, as long as you're not offensively accusative.

This is a bugger. I wish I could be more constructive, as it seems that they're really stalling here and the ET isn't being any help at all.

All you can do is keep all records and make sure that you're as well prepared as possible. Keep calm, visit the ET as many times as possible before hand and read up all you can.

[hhh_88873]

Well I have absolute cast iron proof of one or two of the things that Im bringing to the table, speculative proof of a couple of other things, and a couple of things that could be countered but only if they can think fast enough to counter it.

 

Other than that Im gonna be hoping my accusing them of being unreasonable and failing to meet deadlines will hold some water.

[Marco73]

Like I said hhh, i believe that the EJ will make their mind up on what they see on the day in terms of evidence. The fact that they have not disclosed certain information to you may or may not have an effect on the outcome. Your claim is not for undisclosed documents. Anything undisclosed just means that any party cannot rely upon it on the day. EXAMPLE: my former employer claimed that I had taken all my accrued holidays. I requested my personnel folder. Ex didn't provide me with it so I asked the ET for an order which was granted. EX still didn't provide this so I asked for a strike out which was denied with the EJ saying all issues will be dealt with on the day so what I'm saying is that the letter of the law does not always apply!

On the day of my hearing Ex didn't have proof of holidays and so it went in my favour.

ET's are a nervy affair (personal experience) and you find yourself trying to point out anything and everything to try and get the case over with before it's begun.

You say you have cast iron proof of certain things so take some comfort in that. This proof could possibly sway the EJ's mind on the other possibilities in the case.

Personally, I wouldn't go accusing the ET of not doing their job although this is the case here. You want them on your side. You need to show calmness on the day, that way you'll be able to deliver your evidence more fluently and therefore more effectively.

 

Good luck.

[Marco73]

Maybe try phoning ET also. I found them very helpful.

 

Marco

[hhh_88873]

Ill give the ET a tinkle on monday, just the last thing I want is for the other side to be awarded a continuance or anything. I want this over and done with, its been dragging on too long.

[Marieleeza]

Ill give the ET a tinkle on monday, just the last thing I want is for the other side to be awarded a continuance or anything. I want this over and done with, its been dragging on too long.

 

Have they made you an offer? Is there a chance that they will settle on Monday?

[hhh_88873]

The ET itself isnt till thursday. And no theyve made no offer to settle, but the amusing thing is that the head of HR STILL hasnt retained legal advice. They refused to even talk to ACAS when ACAS contacted them, and in the initial case management discussion the head of HR turned up with some junior clerk to carry her bag and nowt else. Ive got the distinct impression that they are so arrogant that theyd rather get risk getting beaten than make any sort of offer and admit they were wrong.

[Marieleeza]

The ET itself isnt till thursday. And no theyve made no offer to settle, but the amusing thing is that the head of HR STILL hasnt retained legal advice. They refused to even talk to ACAS when ACAS contacted them, and in the initial case management discussion the head of HR turned up with some junior clerk to carry her bag and nowt else. Ive got the distinct impression that they are so arrogant that theyd rather get risk getting beaten than make any sort of offer and admit they were wrong.

 

Or maybe they are saving their pennies to pay you off (I am ever the optimist) or just plan not to show up. It would be so lovely if your could stay the course and defeat these stinkers.

[hhh_88873]

Well Ive got no choice but to stay the course. I firmly believe Im in the right and theyve made no attempt to make things right, and Ive even got proof that they scuppered another post for me after it had been offered to me as well so Itd be nice to beat them hollow. Horrible thing is my fiance is 6 months pregnant, so if they made me some sort of reasonable offer Id tear their hand off for it.

[Marieleeza]

Could your fiance go to the ET with you? It would be good for the judge to see that you have some hefty expenses ahead.

[RachelMD]

Marieleeza, you're an evil genius! You'll fit in well here.

How about someone playing the violin whilst he reads his witness statement? Nah, that's too much .

[Marieleeza]

Marieleeza, you're an evil genius! You'll fit in well here.

How about someone playing the violin whilst he reads his witness statement? Nah, that's too much .

Love it! Anyone know a thin, shoeless urchin for hire?

[hhh_88873]

She was the CCTV operator on the day that the incident that I got fired for happened and shes put a statement in saying they were bang out of order, so shes going along as a witness in case I have to call her.

Im not quite sure how they are going t justify what they did when the two people that were actually there said I didnt do anything wrong, the CPS have said I didnt do anything wrong and an MP has said I havent done anything wrong, I have all of this in writing, so theyve literally got no one other than themselves saying I did anything wrong.