Ingeus

[Mr.P]

Do you have a link for the rules about assessment phase as i would like to email them a copy.

 

See: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/340678/wp-pg-chapter-5.pdf

Page 6, paragraph 32:

 

Mandatory participant moves from JSA to ESA

32. Where you are notified that a mandatory JSA participant has ceased their

JSA to claim ESA, they remain attached with you and their participation

requirements should be treated as the same as those of a Voluntary ESA

participant until the outcome of the Work Capability Assessment (WCA)

[Jonaheye]

Thanks Mr.P!!

[ABC12345]

Yep, osdset - exactly the same eye-rolling response I've seen by staff at DWP when discussing these "providers"...

Gotta kick against them. They certainly aren't getting any employer details off me, and they can stuff their 75 pieces of silver.

 

I find DWP and Ingeus work together in a pincer movement. We need someone representing the unemployed in each jobcentre and Ingeus office. I,d volunteer morale support for anyone being bullied at Ingeus Wembley or JCP Harrow. We are not alone we just need to organise.

[ABC12345]

I find DWP and Ingeus work together in a pincer movement. We need someone representing the unemployed in each jobcentre and Ingeus office. I,d volunteer morale support for anyone being bullied at Ingeus Wembley or JCP Harrow. We are not alone we just need to organise.

 

p.s. Ingeus made it clear to me that we are not customers the employers are the customers. We are applicants. In a market like that we are entitled to applicant support.

[Lapsed Workaholic]

Hello ABC12345 and welcome to CAG.

 

Your willingness to help your fellow man is commendable. Until that day comes when every Jobcentre has someone to help claimants who have problems perhaps you could try what I do.

 

I carry a supply of slips of paper, cut to the size of an average bank card, in my pocket and issue them to people I come across who are having problems with DWP.

 

On the slip:

 

Need advice on DWP and benefit issues?

 

Consumer Action Group might help

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?160-Benefits-and-HMRC

[DamoRLC]

Hi

 

I have just joined this group to ask about this Ingeus Work Related Activity Programme that i have been put on via my Medical Assessment for ESA.

 

I am a bit confused about this because i see a lot of people discussing that they have been pressured into searching for work or attend a course e.g cv writing and interview techniques. When i was informed by DWP that i was place in the work related activity group of ESA, the lady on the phone said that because i am on ESA i can not be made to find work or take up work as long as my Medical Certificate is in date and clear states i am not fit for work.

 

I left the Armed Forces a year ago and struggled to adjust to Civilian life resulting in depression and some anxiety also resulting in me claiming ESA. Since i had the Work Capability Assessment my doctor recommended that i do a complete 180 and look into learning something new and completely opposite to what i did in the Army. So i set out to find something however there is nothing much that i would like to do but decided on going back to college and learning Youth Work. I have since started to do 2hr's a week in my local youth centre and contacted the local college to get some information on courses held there.

 

Now my main question is can Ingeus force me to search for work and to attend these course's that they provided even though that i have completed i attended cv writing courses and interview technique courses before i left the Army. I also paid for my CV to be written and intend to do the same when i have compiled enough you skills and information in youth work to do so.

 

My appointment is Tue 10 March

 

Any info is very much appreciated

[Mr.P]

Now my main question is can Ingeus force me to search for work and to attend these course's that they provided even though that i have completed i attended cv writing courses and interview technique courses before i left the Army.

 

First piece of advice: Sign nothing, and record everything (many mobile phones will record conversations). Collect every scrap of paper they give you to read and/or sign, and don't hand it back - You need it for your own records.

 

In answer to your questions: No, Ingeus can not force you to look for work. However, they can mandate you to attend their assorted "courses" under the threat of sanction. If you think it unsuitable, you have the right to ask for a reconsideration on the grounds that it is not suitable in your circumstances. For example: Basic numeracy course when you have an A level in maths.

 

Side note: Got offered a range of basic literacy courses ranging in three days to eight weeks. When I suggested that the staff would benefit more from these activities, the subject was hurriedly dropped.

[fletch70]

Hi.

The DWP can not force you to look for work but can insist you take steps to prepare yourself for wor Such as interview techniques. If you get referred at some point to a work provider they are less likely to understand the rules and more likely to try to get you to apply for jobs. Others on here will be more forthright iin in their language.

 

I would suggest at this point you keep the information you exchange with the DWP to a minimum. Only talk about your long term goals in general ways such asvget better , retrain when well enough etc. I believe they have a way of using your hopes against you. If you are lucky and I was, my jc+ advisor was old school and more sympathetic than some new target driven career minded kid.

[sillygirl1]

Paying for a CV to be written is not normally done unless you are a very very specialised high earner - so save your money on that unnecessary expense. It won't guarantee you an interview and may not even get you shortlisted.

 

I would suggest getting hold of a load of job specifications for the work you are looking for and read through those matching your skills and experience to the person and experience specifications - if you match at least five of these then apply for the job. See what qualifictions they may need, many of these can be done online - for example Level 2 in Ethnicity and Diversity.

 

Other than that hold your ground and state that you are able to find the courses you need yourself without their help.

[fletch70]

If you fancy something different many universities do degrees aimed at people who want to return to study. If you have never done a degree you will get finance and if although you will lose the payments for ESA so long as you still qualify you get HB. It has done wonders for me. Kills two birds, gets a good qualification and helps in your recovery.

[DamoRLC]

Paying for a CV to be written is not normally done unless you are a very very specialised high earner - so save your money on that unnecessary expense. It won't guarantee you an interview and may not even get you shortlisted.

 

Hi

 

Thank you so much for your reply it is noted but the roles i was applying for i left the Army where in the 30-45k a year so it was the best option to have my CV written. I have also spoke with the company this morning who wrote my CV and they will completely re-write my CV for a small fee because i have used their services before.

[DamoRLC]

Well been to my first appointment........... with these MORONS.

 

I had read on this forum that when asked for your CV ask for a Non-Disclosure agreement or something similar making sure that they can not distribute my CV/Telephone number without my consent, However when i asked for this my advisor showed me a form which they ask people to sign so that they CAN disclose your information and whilst she was discussing this with i heard another advisor telling someone else that they had uploaded their CV to a jobsite for them (DISGUSTED DOESN'T CUT IT).

 

When asked to sign this form giving them permission to despatch my details to any Tom, Dick and Harry, i kindly told my advisor that i am really sensitive to my privacy and that i could not sign the form. She said below the form declaring that i was sensitive to my information being distributed and would not sign and she signed and dated the form (When the interview was nearly over i asked if i could have a copy of said form with her signature which she obliged to.

 

During the interview i ask does what i am doing my self contribute to Work-Related Activity i.e Voluntary Work in a Youth Work setting for 2 hrs a week and trying to obtain a place at my local college to study Youth Work on a Part-Time basis. To which the answer was "NO!!!! because that is what i WANT to do and because i am part of the Work Program i will still need to attend college and also any Workshops that they allocate to which i asked " what happens if the two collide?" She said " then if you choose the college course it is very likely that you will be SANCTIONED!!! (There is the magic word that these people love)".

 

Lets just say that my interview went smoothly and it was really good to see that these people are really there to help (B**locks).

 

Thank you people for this wonderful forum on how to deal with these and hopefully something i have said will help others deal with these Pr**ks in the future

 

Regards

 

Damo

[Mr.P]

If you need any official guidance regarding the signing of forms, I'm sure others will post up Freedom of Information requests made to the DWP that show that signing any form is optional and not subject to threats or sanctions.

 

As you are an ESA participant, you have the right to insist on a 'mandatory reconsideration' if a mandated activity is inappropriate to your circumstances or the date clashes with other commitments (such as medical appointments or other external provisions). See: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/366745/wp-pg-chapter-3a-22-october-2012.pdf

 

Reconsideration of mandated activity for Mandatory ESA and IS Lone Parent

Participants

48. Mandatory ESA and IS participants may request a reconsideration of any activity they have been mandated to undertake. Where they do so you must look again at the activity and take into account why the participant does not feel the activity is appropriate, reconsider if the activity remains reasonable and appropriate in the participant’s circumstances.

I hope you recorded the proceedings of this "meeting" - Always good to have a record for your own personal use and provide evidence should false allegations be made (had one provider claim that I swore at, and abused staff, suffice to say I had recordings of every meeting to disprove that).

[DamoRLC]

I hope you recorded the proceedings of this "meeting" - Always good to have a record for your own personal use and provide evidence should false allegations be made (had one provider claim that I swore at, and abused staff, suffice to say I had recordings of every meeting to disprove that).

 

I did try to record but when i have played it back you can barely hear what is being said because the phone was in my pocket. I will in the future place the phone on the desk upside down, however is it legal that i can record a person without them knowing or do i state as i start the interview "I am record this interview for my own records and it will be used as evidence if anything is to come from this interview" or words to that effect.

 

I will continue to be a member of this forum because what i have found so far as been helpful and will be even more help in the future. Thank you so much for everyone's input into this "No-Good, Money Grabbing, life destroying A**holes".

[Nystagmite]

During the interview i ask does what i am doing my self contribute to Work-Related Activity i.e Voluntary Work in a Youth Work setting for 2 hrs a week and trying to obtain a place at my local college to study Youth Work on a Part-Time basis. To which the answer was "NO!!!! because that is what i WANT to do and because i am part of the Work Program i will still need to attend college and also any Workshops that they allocate to which i asked " what happens if the two collide?" She said " then if you choose the college course it is very likely that you will be SANCTIONED!!! (There is the magic word that these people love)".

 

Check this with DWP and get their response in writing They are hoping that you don't know your rights and are doing whatever they can (empty threats) to try and sanction you.

[Charlotte_Henderson]

How do i start a new thread?

[antone]

I did try to record but when i have played it back you can barely hear what is being said because the phone was in my pocket. I will in the future place the phone on the desk upside down, however is it legal that i can record a person without them knowing or do i state as i start the interview "I am record this interview for my own records and it will be used as evidence if anything is to come from this interview" or words to that effect.

 

 

It is legal to record such an interview without the knowledge of the interviewer, yes, though of course you must not do anything daft like publish the recording on Youtube - keep it solely for your own records. If you tell them you are recording them they would be within their rights to refuse to continue and mark you down as failing to participate. I had some success recording these sorts of interviews using a small device that resembles a USB flash drive - I just wore it on a cord around my neck and it wasn't at all obvious it was a recording device. I can't recommend a specific model but they can be had on Amazon or Ebay for £10 or so.

[jasta11]

.. is it legal that i can record a person without them knowing or do i state as i start the interview "I am record this interview for my own records and it will be used as evidence if anything is to come from this interview" or words to that effect.

 

I will continue to be a member of this forum because what i have found so far as been helpful and will be even more help in the future. Thank you so much for everyone's input into this "No-Good, Money Grabbing, life destroying A**holes".

 

Copy of a letter from the Information Commissioners Office from whatdotheyknow.com. I've seen nothing to countermand this so I assume it's as valid now;

 

Information Commissioner’s Office

 

26 September 2012

PROTECT

 

Case Reference Number ENQ0465807

 

Dear Mr Zola

 

Thank you for your correspondence of 23 September in which you ask if an

individual cannot covertly record conversations when they are solely for

their domestic use.

 

Under the Data Protection Act 1998 (DPA), Section 36, there is an

exemption which states that “personal data are exempt from the Data

Protection Principles and the provisions of Part II (individuals’ rights)

and Part III (notification) of the Act where they are processed by an

individual only for the purposes of that individual’s personal, family or

household affairs (including recreational purposes).”

 

This means that an individual can carry out covert recordings without

being in breach of the DPA as long as the information is for their own

personal and domestic use.

 

I hope this information is helpful. If we can be of any further assistance

please call me, or contact our Helpline on 0303 123 1113, quoting your

case reference number. You will also find useful information on our

website at [1]www.ico.gov.uk.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Michelle Hazlehurst

 

Case Officer - First Contact Group

 

Direct Dial - 01625 545216

 

If JC staff know they're being recorded they have a right to refuse to take part but they must then arrange for someone who is willing to be recorded to see you, even if it means going to another office. This may also apply to the WP too. I've recorded the JC for a long time now and trot this document out if any clerk gets stroppy; nobody has argued with it so far.

 

...and the reason Ingeus won't like you doing things yourself to find work experience, placements, training, etc is very simple; as they didn't find them for you they can't claim payment. Don't let them take you off things you found yourself which are beneficial and put you on useless course which only serve to generate payments for Ingeus.

 

Like a lot on here, I did my 2 years with Ingeus and found them totally useless and only interested in how much money they could make from you. Stay on top of them by knowing the guidance, reporting them immediately should they stray from it and taking no you-know-what from them.

[DamoRLC]

Check this with DWP and get their response in writing They are hoping that you don't know your rights and are doing whatever they can (empty threats) to try and sanction you.

 

As soon as i arrived home i phoned the ESA hotline and posed the same question to them and they said that the WP can put me on something that collides with anything else that i have arrange i.e. a college course and that the outcome would depend on which option i choose. However she then went on to say that i should contact my DWP advisor and clarify with them what would actually happen if i chose to go to college over some B**locks workshop that Ingeus have to offer.

 

I will just go with the flow for now as i am in the early stages but i now feel prepared for the worse by having you charming and helpful people to help.

 

Regards

 

Damo

[fletch70]

As far as i know it is very difficult for someone on ESA to be forced to do anything. Of course the broad definition of preparing for work is crazy.

It may be a cop out but I just did what was asked of me i.e turn up every week and frankly help others with their IT skills , I should have put a bill in. I am sorry to say that the group I was with made it clear that a minority were playing the system and it did annoy me that these people were not targeted. When I say a minority it was 1 in 10 maybe 2 on occasions hardly representative

 

There are some battles to fight and some not worth the effort. When I started Uni I was told that I would still need to go in, well as my ESA had been reduced to £0 because of my loans etc I asked every so politely what could they do if I refused. They have now phoned me twice since sept and I just say yeah, all going well how are you and they bugger off

[Mr.P]

If you tell them you are recording them they would be within their rights to refuse to continue and mark you down as failing to participate. I had some success recording these sorts of interviews using a small device that resembles a USB flash drive

 

I had the "if you record this conversation, I'll report you for breaking the law"... No comment.

 

One method I have used to good effect: Place a cheap tape based dictaphone on the desk, and beside it, place a small digital recording device encased in a soft protective cover. If challenged, show the dictaphone is not turned on, but say nothing about the second device that was enabled the moment you entered the building. The pendant USB type device sounds like a very good idea, and appeals on the grounds of multiple redundancy (just in case they cotton on to the second recorder on the desk).

[Lapsed Workaholic]

Copy of a letter from the Information Commissioners Office from whatdotheyknow.com. I've seen nothing to countermand this so I assume it's as valid now;

 

Information Commissioner’s Office

 

26 September 2012

PROTECT

 

Case Reference Number ENQ0465807

 

Dear Mr Zola

 

Thank you for your correspondence of 23 September in which you ask if an

individual cannot covertly record conversations when they are solely for

their domestic use.

 

Under the Data Protection Act 1998 (DPA), Section 36, there is an

exemption which states that “personal data are exempt from the Data

Protection Principles and the provisions of Part II (individuals’ rights)

and Part III (notification) of the Act where they are processed by an

individual only for the purposes of that individual’s personal, family or

household affairs (including recreational purposes).”

 

This means that an individual can carry out covert recordings without

being in breach of the DPA as long as the information is for their own

personal and domestic use.

 

I hope this information is helpful. If we can be of any further assistance

please call me, or contact our Helpline on 0303 123 1113, quoting your

case reference number. You will also find useful information on our

website at [1]www.ico.gov.uk.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Michelle Hazlehurst

 

Case Officer - First Contact Group

 

Direct Dial - 01625 545216

 

If JC staff know they're being recorded they have a right to refuse to take part but they must then arrange for someone who is willing to be recorded to see you, even if it means going to another office. This may also apply to the WP too. I've recorded the JC for a long time now and trot this document out if any clerk gets stroppy; nobody has argued with it so far.

 

...and the reason Ingeus won't like you doing things yourself to find work experience, placements, training, etc is very simple; as they didn't find them for you they can't claim payment. Don't let them take you off things you found yourself which are beneficial and put you on useless course which only serve to generate payments for Ingeus.

 

Like a lot on here, I did my 2 years with Ingeus and found them totally useless and only interested in how much money they could make from you. Stay on top of them by knowing the guidance, reporting them immediately should they stray from it and taking no you-know-what from them.

Jasta; Further to your post I have checked out what the law has to say about recording interviews, either openly or covertly, and it makes for interesting reading.

I thought it best to start a new thread on the topic since it is not related directly to Ingeus or its activities. However, the recording of their interviews, since they act as a sort of sub-contractor to DWP, would be covered by the same laws.

For more on this topic please look at the post headed "Recording Claimant Interviews"

[earthspin]

Hello,

 

I am looking for advice.

 

I was part of Ingeus for a few days and then I got a job. I unfortunately was no good in the job and was fired about a week later.

 

I then got offered another job that starts soon. I am happy as I went to university to try and get a job in a particular sector and have managed to achieve it

 

Ingeus must of rang my previous employer and now know I lost that Job.

 

They been ringing me constantly, on home telephone number, mobile number and contacting me by email.

 

I do not wish to tell them about my new employer, I would rather they not contact them. I do not wish them to be involved in my life as I am not claiming Universal Credit any more.

 

Is there a way of stopping them contacting me and making sure they do not find out about who my new employer is?

 

Any help would be appreciated,

 

Thank you

[Nystagmite]

Can you block their number?

[earthspin]

Hi

 

I have done that, but they are crafty. They ring from mobile numbers and don't leave a message. I don't know its them.

 

Also they ring from different land line numbers which makes it confusing.

 

I am hoping to have them all blocked in the end but I can see them getting through to me at some point. I don't want the awkward conversation on thephone with them about refusing to give them details about what I am doing.