Ingeus

[Mr.P]

In all fairness, I don't think anyone gets a finish time for their appointments. I have certainly never had one, just an indication of how long each session was supposed to take.

 

That said, if you were mandated to undertake a specific activity, it would be reasonable to expect the duration to be stated. For example: Attend office to undertake job-search activity for hours.

[trebormoinet]

That said, if you were mandated to undertake a specific activity, it would be reasonable to expect the duration to be stated. For example: Attend office to undertake job-search activity for hours.

 

It was a mandated appointment so it should include a start and end time as indicated in the provider guidance, unless I have misread or misunderstood,

 

Outrageous If it is normal not to provide an end time or at the very least some indication of how long a session will last, mandated or not.

[Mr.P]

It was a mandated appointment so it should include a start and end time as indicated in the provider guidance, unless I have misread or misunderstood,

 

No, you have not misread nor misunderstood the published guidance. Well spotted (must admit, I've never noticed it stating "finish time"). Keep pulling them up on these details, and make it known that you are up to date with the current guidance.

[jasta11]

The appropriate letter in no way reflected the letter I was issued with, I was sent to the office manager with regard to my complaint and he stated that in all the years he has done this job, they have never put a end time for appointments and anyway they have a compliance team ensuring they act accordingly so I must be wrong.

 

I have put my concerns in writing and awaiting the outcome.

 

Seems pretty clear to me that they've been failing to follow DWP contract rules for years then. If it's Ingeus own 'compliance team' I wouldn't put any faith in them knowing the guidelines any better than the advisers. The DWP send in monitors to ensure they're following the guidelines but how thorough the checks are I don't know - they may just accept a lot verbally..and Ingeus are very good at verbalising!

 

All my appointments with Ingeus had both start and end times and if they hadnt I'd have demanded them; people have a right to know how long they'll be there for. Good for you for standing your ground and complaining - many of us here have complained about incorrect mandatory appointment letters, it's one of Ingeus' most common failings.

 

By way of information, if an Ingeus mandatory appointment clashes with any formal JC appointment - including signing on - then the JC take precedence every time. Ingeus are known for purposely arranging appointments when a client should be signing on at the JC then trying to raise a non attendance doubt when they didn't attend Ingeus. It's in the WP guidance that they should not let anything they do stop a client attending Jobcentre appointments. Handy to know.

[fletch70]

I think it is fair to say that the work providers and the job centre must be held to account however I sometimes wonder if going in all guns blazing is really the best approach. By all means let them know that you know the score but remember that they could , if they were minded to, make life even more difficult for you. It is all well and good knowing that should they try and cut your benefits you will get it overturned but is it really worth the bother. I have seen first hand how the WP advisors are less flexible with the clients who are more difficult. Just a P.O.V.

 

I do not approve or condone the way the DWP is being operated by that horrible little man and will happily take a claim as far as it needs to go but it is easier when it gets resolved early

[trebormoinet]

I think it is fair to say that the work providers and the job centre must be held to account however I sometimes wonder if going in all guns blazing is really the best approach. By all means let them know that you know the score but remember that they could , if they were minded to, make life even more difficult for you. It is all well and good knowing that should they try and cut your benefits you will get it overturned but is it really worth the bother. I have seen first hand how the WP advisors are less flexible with the clients who are more difficult. Just a P.O.V.

 

Yes fair point, I have thought about the consequences, and in all honesty I am stuffed if sanctioned, no family, no friends, no overdraft facility, no savings , no chance nor desire to obtain pay day loan, and nothing of value I can sell or pawn.

 

So I do tend to approach everything with caution, I will carry out any reasonable direction, comply with every mandated activity they can throw at me and always have a cheery smile and avoid any language that could be construed as aggressive or offensive.

 

Yes I could be setting myself up for more pain in the long run, saying that the manager seemed to be a reasonable chap so I am hoping that they will see that I am actually protecting Ingeus interests by highlighting a potential financial loss in the future they could suffer because they are issuing documents which do not fall within the legal framework as required by the decision maker.

 

And if that means I will be able manage my time more effectively with the knowledge of how long I might be engaged at Ingeus during the day then its jut win win all the way for both of us.

 

and who am I kidding lol.

[Jonaheye]

looking for some advice - Sent off the large form to claim ESA been 5 months and no reply or decision yet , back in January ingeus were sending me letters mandating me to attend armed with some good advice given here (Cannot be mandated during assessment phase) i went down to their office and spoke to a manager and he agreed to stop sending mandated letters until i was assessed, since then all the letters i received have not had a MAN except the latest one ,nothing has changed since January i am still waiting to hear about my claim i read somewhere new ESA rules came in from the 30-03-15

 

 

The latest letter comes with a mandate to attend the next appointment on the 23rd .

 

Can i now be Mandated or sanctioned even though my claim is still being assessed? or are ingeus just pulling a fast one because i have ignored them for so long.

 

Any advice would be appreciated.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Jonaheye

[Mr.P]

Can i now be Mandated or sanctioned even though my claim is still being assessed?

 

If you are still on the assessment phase of an ESA claim, then the following is still current:

Mandatory participant moves from JSA to ESA

62. Where you are notified that a mandatory JSA participant has ceased their JSA to claim ESA, they remain attached with you and their participation requirements should be treated as the same as those of a Voluntary ESA participant until the outcome of the Work Capability Assessment (WCA)

From: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/417658/wp-pg-chapter-5-v8.pdf (Ver.8 updated 30/3/2015)

 

It would be as well to contact the DWP and find out what stage your ESA claim is at and whether any steps have been taken to allocate a Work Capability Assessment. Once you have conformation that you are still on the assessment phase, you can advise Ingeus accordingly.

[Jonaheye]

Cheers Mr P for the link. I was working on the assumption that because i have not had a letter from them that my claim is still in the assessment phase

I don't want to contact the DWP because they may speed up the process once they know its five months since i sent the form off , probably end up going to see the manager again about their non compliance with the rules.

Once again thanks.

[Tj rodgers]

If i am off sick on my sign on day an havnt been off sick before do i still receive Jsa on the same day as usual?

[Mr.P]

As long as you have submitted a JSA28 in reasonable time, you should still get your payment(s) as usual. See: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/jsa28_and_being_sick_whilst_on_j for a copy of the form and notes on the procedure.

[Tj rodgers]

As long as you have submitted a JSA28 in reasonable time, you should still get your payment(s) as usual. See: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/jsa28_and_being_sick_whilst_on_j for a copy of the form and notes on the procedure.

Thats rediculous if your ill the day u sign and you ill for a few days and dnt live near a post box what they expect you to do?

[trebormoinet]

I have just received another appointment letter from Ingeus.

 

They managed to include the logo this time, it is a mandated appointment and again they fail to provide no end time for the appointment, and no reason at all stated for the appointment.

 

Does this mean that if I fail to attend the appointment and they raise a doubt, the case will be dropped on the technicality that the appointment letter was not within the legal framework ?

 

I can see why Ingeus want to give the impression it is a formal mandated notice but wish to deviate from the framework because they can then impose unreasonable activities and basically do as they please to pressure people far more than they could if the notice was correctly issued, they are using it to their advantage as far as I can see.

 

I am going to request that all appointments / activities are correctly mandated else I will fail to participate, and any thing not mandated I will also fail to participate so that they have to at least put some effort into earning their money when I do finally employment.

 

Reasonable request ?

[sillygirl1]

No, unreasonable, you are just making a rod for your own back.

[jasta11]

Probably still best to attend the appointment as, even though you know you're in the right it doesn't stop Ingeus raising a 'non attendance' issue with the JC..and that can take a while to sort out, always assuming the JC will take your side. Don't forget that the JC are looking for sanction targets.

 

However, nothing to stop you telling Ingeus that your appointment letter was not up to the specifications of their contract with the DWP and that you will be A) reporting the issuing adviser to their manager and head office and B) reporting Ingeus to the DWP monitors for non-compliance with their contract guidelines.

 

Worp Program contracts are shaky enough at the best of times so they won't want any complaints going to the DWP. I always found the threat of me reporting them to DWP monitors to be very effective.

[Mr.P]

Agree with sillygirl1 on this. Trying to pick on technicalities to get out of an appointment and avoid a sanction is a sure-fire way to pick one up.

 

Save it for the day when they really screw up and you can drop'em right in it. See this thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?416502-Working-Links-Ridiculous-Demands

[trebormoinet]

No, unreasonable, you are just making a rod for your own back.

 

I have mulled over consequences of my plan but my natural instinct tells me persist, maybe starving for a principle is not a good idea, although my main objective is to remove the rod, I believe forcing them to work within the legal framework and not within their informal practices it will protect me to some degree.

[sillygirl1]

There are times to make a stand and times to retreat gracefully, I would gracefully retreat until after the results of the forthcoming election, then make your stand.

[trebormoinet]

nothing to stop you telling Ingeus that your appointment letter was not up to the specifications of their contract with the DWP and that you will be A) reporting the issuing adviser to their manager and head office and B)

Yep thanks, that is roughly my plan.

 

I have got as far as raising the issue with my adviser and then the office manager which was 14 days ago but no response so far and given that the new appointment letter was as sub standard as the previous one they have not made any changes and it has been signed by my adviser so they have seen it, it not just a stock letter, so I guess I now need to get complaint form to send to head office.

 

reporting Ingeus to the DWP monitors for non-compliance with their contract guidelines.

Thanks for the idea, yes, I shall look into that and make them aware I might have to take that route.

[trebormoinet]

There are times to make a stand and times to retreat gracefully, I would gracefully retreat until after the results of the forthcoming election, then make your stand.

Agreed after all who knows what hair brained scheme is around the corner, I presume if the Tories do not win another term then whoever takes power might implement their own.

 

Slightly off topic but from what I understand if labour win they are guaranteeing everyone at least 25 hours a week paid employment which taking into account the minimum wage will be in-line with the living wage at some point I for one would whoop with joy if ever implemented and then I would agree with these draconian measures they employ to ensure everyone who is able / capable of work does so.

[jasta11]

Slightly off topic but from what I understand if labour win they are guaranteeing everyone at least 25 hours a week paid employment which taking into account the minimum wage will be in-line with the living wage at some point

 

..then after they get in power we'll get the 'Well, we looked into the idea but found it wasn't actually workable/we couldn't afford it/*insert any other excuse*.

 

To paraphrase a famous quote 'A verbal guarantee isn't worth the paper it's written on' If we believe all the pre-election promises of all the parties we'll soon be living in Utopia. Something needs to be done though by somebody, that's for sure.

[Raven1]

Don't know if anyone has posted this here before but just in case not:

 

http://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Reviews/Ingeus-Reviews-E303238.htm

[LemonNews]

hi people,

 

whats the best way to complain about an Ingeus adviser and your bad experiences in general with the company i general?.

 

starting a job next Monday so finally free and to boot its a job i found myself!.

 

i`m signing on for the last time on Friday so shall i have a word with the adviser i see?.

[tfp]

hi people,

 

whats the best way to complain about an Ingeus adviser and your bad experiences in general with the company i general?.

 

starting a job next Monday so finally free and to boot its a job i found myself!.

 

i`m signing on for the last time on Friday so shall i have a word with the adviser i see?.

 

Without wishing to pry too much, what was your bad experience Lemon? My experiences with Ingeus is the same as many others overall including this VEEEEERRRRRY lengthy thread. In short, I found Ingeus to be rather unprofessional with poorly trained staff.

 

As for complaining, go for it, esp. as you have nothing to lose in starting your new job soon. With any luck you'll not have to deal with Ingeus again. I complained about a member of staff (let's call her Maria) myself at one of their Leeds branches. All own to her poor attitude and incompetence. To cut a long story short, I asked about self employment options at Ingeus with the very first advisor I saw. He said they did and made a note of it on their system using his PC.

 

I saw yet another adviser whom I also mentioned my self employment plans to. By the time I got to Maria, she was the third or fourth adviser by that point. She asked me what type of work I was looking at. I told her. I also mentioned my self employment idea. She dismissed it and said I was not serious as I had not mentioned this first!!! Maria also said I was making things up as she could not find evidence of my mentioning self employment to any adviser. Even when I pointed out the very adviser I mentioned my plans to, she did took no notice.

 

I asked once more whether Ingeus offered any self employment support. Maria was insistent and said no. It was only when another adviser sat opposite overheard our conversation, he said Ingues did and he handed me a business plan template with Ingeus' logo on the front! At this point Maria wanted to see my CV. I said I'd bring it in next time on a USB flash drive.

 

The next time I saw Maria, she took my CV from my flash drive and attempted to print from it and couldn't. It was highly amusing to see he checking the laser printer to see if it was working. She also attempted to cut ' n paste and couldn't. This was because I'd added security features to my CV in PDF format using Adobe Acrobat Pro which I had at the time. Maria then insisted I return next week with my CV in Word format. I asked why. She said so she could 'tweak' it and sent if off to various businesses. I said I'd rather not do that. Her response was to bark ''Do wot you want then''.

 

I complained to Ingeus head office. I said I was not happy in Maria as an adviser and had no trust in her competence. I was offered a meeting with Maria and the manager of Leeds Ingeus. Although this meeting did not happen, I did get yet another adviser who was much more switched on.

 

In your case Lemon, another adviser will make no sense. Complaining may well make you feel better. I'd suggest your local MP may be a place to start depending on the nature of the issue.

[LemonNews]

cheers for the reply tfp,

 

funnily enough my issues are also with a female adviser at Leeds branch of Ingeus.

 

it sounds like we have had similar experience, this women was rude, looked down on you like you were worthless and constant texts about crap jobs. also dismissed any talk of self employment.

 

form beginning to end from letters she didnt send for appointments and trying to insinuate i was lying to putting me forward for jobs which were not even in my options. too many workshops and didnt give a toss about your own job searching and records for the job centre. also she woulnt give me a copy of my ingeus contract which i first signed last year. not even a blank copy of the contract...i just wanted one to know what was expected of me as i`m sure you feel that your very much in the dark at times.

 

it was very hard not to be rude but i always kept my cool. i`m going to go in tomorrow and see her line manager, at least she might get a talking to but how she works with the public on a daily basis with her people skills and demeanour. if its the same women then that will be at least 2 complaints against her.

 

all the best.