Sacked on the spot without warning

[Bigredbus]

TBH i don't think i could go back now as i am a bit embarrassed plus i am sure they would make it difficult for me.

Maybe some compensation or something till i find another job. I just need to make sure i can pay my bills TBH

 

a) What do you feel embarrassed about?

 

There is an all plethora of points you should start covering up:

 

a) Why did they summarily dismissed you, and on what evidence?

b) Did they ever talk to you formally, or informally about your conduct and capability?

c) Have you ever been issued with a warning or award during the course of your employment?

d) Did you prepare that document covering responsibilites, job description and benefits?

e) Would there be an underlying reason for them wanting to 'get rid of you'?

[gazhodge1981]

a) What do you feel embarrassed about?

 

There is an all plethora of points you should start covering up:

 

a) Why did they summarily dismissed you, and on what evidence?

b) Did they ever talk to you formally, or informally about your conduct and capability?

c) Have you ever been issued with a warning or award during the course of your employment?

d) Did you prepare that document covering responsibilites, job description and benefits?

e) Would there be an underlying reason for them wanting to 'get rid of you'?

 

A) this is the letter they gave me - Letter:-

 

With Immediate effect we are terminating your employment with **** due to capability (poor performance) and conduct (poor time keeping) we had you a cheque which includes basic wage for four weeks, commission due, holiday pay (1 week) p11d rebate for the loss of fuel and car allowance for one month.

 

All i got was I am sorry it's not personal and someone will take you home if you want to get your stuff together

 

B) At no point has anyone ever spoken to me about my conduct or capability to do my job. In fact with me looking after there web site and sorting most IT problems they had i was doing extra work normally for nothing. My first 3 months was pretty much spent getting there new web site up and running as it was just a shell with no content.

 

C) I have never had a warning, verbal or written in my time there.

 

D) Yes i have and will post on here

 

E) Up until they called me into the office we were planning for next month and so on. The only reason i can think they would want to get rid of anyone is that i know the business doesn't have much cash due to loses last year. They have been interviewing for the last few weeks and me and the two other sales people thought they were adding to the team

[Bigredbus]

A) this is the letter they gave me - Letter:-

 

With Immediate effect we are terminating your employment with **** due to capability (poor performance) and conduct (poor time keeping) we had you a cheque which includes basic wage for four weeks, commission due, holiday pay (1 week) p11d rebate for the loss of fuel and car allowance for one month.

 

All i got was I am sorry it's not personal and someone will take you home if you want to get your stuff together

 

B) At no point has anyone ever spoken to me about my conduct or capability to do my job. In fact with me looking after there web site and sorting most IT problems they had i was doing extra work normally for nothing. My first 3 months was pretty much spent getting there new web site up and running as it was just a shell with no content.

 

C) I have never had a warning, verbal or written in my time there.

 

D) Yes i have and will post on here

 

E) Up until they called me into the office we were planning for next month and so on. The only reason i can think they would want to get rid of anyone is that i know the business doesn't have much cash due to loses last year. They have been interviewing for the last few weeks and me and the two other sales people thought they were adding to the team

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

All the points in red, above, are important points you must detail and expand on...

 

a) You have never been informed of any wrong doing during the course of your employment, in relation to both the allegations raised against you (capability and conduct),

b) That you have worked extra hours (unpaid?), outside of your capacity, to develop their business website (any evidence?),

c) That you have never been issued with a warning or award during the course of your employment,

d) That you are aware of their temporary financial difficulties, but, nevertheless, noticed, along with work colleagues, that they were interviewing , and you assumed that they were 'adding' to the team...

 

It must be wrong to dismiss an employee on a first misconduct, let alone summarily dismissing him for issues which have never been raised by his employer during formal or informal meetings. To dismiss summarily is to recognise that a misconduct, or misconducts, are severe enough to warrant such course of action (gross misconducts in this category). No procedure has been applied to your case.

 

You now should seek legal advice, and proceed to an Employment Tribunal for unfair dismissal. You should bear in mind that such an action may be protacted for various reasons, and if you primarily seek financial compensation to help you with your immediate cost of living, you will be bitterly disappointed...

 

...And finally...

 

You may cash in that cheque, but have true copies made of it... At least 3 (three).

Edited June 2, 2011 by Bigredbus
Addendum

[gazhodge1981]

My question is then really is it worth even going as far as a tribunal in terms of financial coast i.e. Solicitor???

 

Apart from maybe making it better for them who work there would i see any benefit. I am sorry if i am coming across wrong, i just feel a bit down and embarrassed with being sack (unfair dismissed)

[Bigredbus]

My question is then really is it worth even going as far as a tribunal in terms of financial coast i.e. Solicitor???

 

Apart from maybe making it better for them who work there would i see any benefit. I am sorry if i am coming across wrong, i just feel a bit down and embarrassed with being sack (unfair dismissed)

 

___________________________________________________________________________________

 

This is all down to you and the perception you have of this case.

 

You can represent yourself, and judges are very sympathetic to this. So, there is nothing to fear about being intimidated by the other party...

 

In my view, you have a strong and straight case of unfair dismissal, and although you would mostly recoup losses due to your dismissal, any other award would be to the tribunal discretion. Bear in mind that they would most certainly inflate your award due to the fact that your employer 'blatantly' ignored procedures...

 

You have various tools to reach your objective:

 

a) The Citizen Advice Bureau (CAB)

b) ACAS

c) Any Solicitor working pro bono in your area

d) The CAG

e) And finally, but not least, all the serious and verified information you may find on internet.

 

Another avenue opened to you is a Compromise Agreement... but this information will come in due course...

[Bigredbus]

Of course, if you were to take on te case yourself, you would have to gather all the documents related to your employment, mentioning those not in your possession, document all the points mentioned in the posts above, and then, maybe, write a 'Without prejudice save as to costs' letter...

 

You would have to follow a defined set of rules then!

Edited June 2, 2011 by Bigredbus
Addendum

[RachelMD]

I say go for it.

As BRB says, you should, from everything you've told us so far, have a straightforward case at ET.

I doubt it would go so far as a hearing, far more likely that they would come to an agreement with you.

I'd advise going and speaking to a number of solicitors, if you can get a free initial consultation. Shop around, as solicitors can be very apathetic when it comes to ET claims.

Don't pay anyone for advice, and beware if a solicitor offers you representation on a 'no win, no fee' basis. At ET, costs are almost never awarded, so the solicitor would end up getting a good chunk of any award you received.

In fact, unless you really don't feel capable of handling an ET claim yourself, I'd advise against having a solicitor handle it. It's perfectly possible for a reasonably capable person to do it themselves. But if you can test the waters by getting an initial free consultation from them, they're worth speaking to.

 

What size is the business you were working for?

How easily do you think you can get another job?

[Bigredbus]

Absolutely agree with the lady seating above me...

 

However, I would go 'testing the infested waters' with a 'without prejudice save as to costs' letter...

[gazhodge1981]

I say go for it.

As BRB says, you should, from everything you've told us so far, have a straightforward case at ET.

I doubt it would go so far as a hearing, far more likely that they would come to an agreement with you.

I'd advise going and speaking to a number of solicitors, if you can get a free initial consultation. Shop around, as solicitors can be very apathetic when it comes to ET claims.

Don't pay anyone for advice, and beware if a solicitor offers you representation on a 'no win, no fee' basis. At ET, costs are almost never awarded, so the solicitor would end up getting a good chunk of any award you received.

In fact, unless you really don't feel capable of handling an ET claim yourself, I'd advise against having a solicitor handle it. It's perfectly possible for a reasonably capable person to do it themselves. But if you can test the waters by getting an initial free consultation from them, they're worth speaking to.

 

What size is the business you were working for?

How easily do you think you can get another job?

 

It is a family run business which is one site, it has between 35-50 employees

in terms of getting another job all i can do is try 8-) i have applied for a few already.

 

I am more than happy to go to a ET, i just need to make sure i know what i need from them and have all the paperwork i need.

[gazhodge1981]

Absolutely agree with the lady seating above me...

 

However, I would go 'testing the infested waters' with a 'without prejudice save as to costs' letter...

 

Is there any examples of the letter??? Without prejudice i can try

 

and Rachel is right 8-)

[Bigredbus]

It is a family run business which is one site, it has between 35-50 employees

in terms of getting another job all i can do is try 8-) i have applied for a few already.

 

I am more than happy to go to a ET, i just need to make sure i know what i need from them and have all the paperwork i need.

 

Keep every application you make documented... Date, company, job, location, wages, copy of application, any reply you may receive, etc...

 

And as for documentation needed to proceed, you will be able to find help here, and on other websites and by taking advice from solicitors...

 

To find any template of that letter, and I state again that it is a 'WITHOUT PREJUDICE, SAVE AS TO COSTS' letter, you might find templates on the web...

[honeybee13]

Hello again Gaz. Fwiw, quite a few people on the forum have self-represented at ETs. I don't know if Rachel did, did you?

 

You will get help here, we like battles against nasty employers .

 

My best, HB

[gazhodge1981]

Name: Gaz

 

Your place of work is St, Pr, L, F. My employment with St started on 28th June 2010 and I have been employed as a sales executive.

With your employment you will be entitled to a company vehicle and 22.5 litres of fuel every week.

Your working hours will be:-

Monday 9am to 6pm

Tuesday 9am to 6pm

Wednesday 9am to 7pm

Thursday 9am to 7pm

Friday 9am to 6pm

Saturday 9am to 5pm

Sunday 10.30am to 5pm

 

You will be required to work one late night till 7pm per week as part of your normal working hours as per rota.

 

Job description:

As a sales executive your job is to meet and greet customer and provide excellent customer service and deal with any enquires both face to face and on the telephone that they may have. You need to speak to customer regarding products and services that we offer. You job is to sell both new and used cars as well as finance products that we offer. You will need to take customers on test drives and negotiate deals with customer. You are to report to your sales or business manager for figures and finance figures.

My Day to day role within the business:

My day to day job was to meet and greet customers and handle any enquires that they may have regarding products that we sell. To take customer details and record information on what the customer is looking for and information on the products they are interested in.

I am also asked by management to keep the new business web site up to date with content and up to date with pictures and information. I also need to design a background and edit pictures to fit onto the background and upload them on to the website. I also need to keep auto trader and ebay up to date with the pictures I have taken and edited (9 pictures per car). I also have to keep all the social network sites up to day with information and current offers.

I am also asked to email and write letter to customers and businesses at the request of management as I have a better knowledge and skill on how to do this.

 

How does this read??

[honeybee13]

Exhausting is what it sounds. They sound like slavedrivers.

 

My best, HB

[Bigredbus]

Name: Gaz

 

Your place of work is St, Pr, L, F. My employment with St started on 28th June 2010 and I have been employed as a sales executive.

With your employment you will be entitled to a company vehicle and 22.5 litres of fuel every week.

Your working hours will be:-

Monday 9am to 6pm

Tuesday 9am to 6pm

Wednesday 9am to 7pm

Thursday 9am to 7pm

Friday 9am to 6pm

Saturday 9am to 5pm

Sunday 10.30am to 5pm

 

You will be required to work one late night till 7pm per week as part of your normal working hours as per rota.

 

Job description:

As a sales executive your job is to meet and greet customer and provide excellent customer service and deal with any enquires both face to face and on the telephone that they may have. You need to speak to customer regarding products and services that we offer. You job is to sell both new and used cars as well as finance products that we offer. You will need to take customers on test drives and negotiate deals with customer. You are to report to your sales or business manager for figures and finance figures.

My Day to day role within the business:

My day to day job was to meet and greet customers and handle any enquires that they may have regarding products that we sell. To take customer details and record information on what the customer is looking for and information on the products they are interested in.

I am also asked by management to keep the new business web site up to date with content and up to date with pictures and information. I also need to design a background and edit pictures to fit onto the background and upload them on to the website. I also need to keep auto trader and ebay up to date with the pictures I have taken and edited (9 pictures per car). I also have to keep all the social network sites up to day with information and current offers.

I am also asked to email and write letter to customers and businesses at the request of management as I have a better knowledge and skill on how to do this.

 

How does this read??

 

Sounds good...

[Bigredbus]

Tis is an example of a 'Without prejudice, save as to costs letter' found on the web...

 

______________________________________________________________________

 

P6.8 ‘Without prejudice save as to costs’ settlement offer to respondent

Carrot & Marrow Solicitors

24 Lower Street

Islington

London N12 3AB

6 April 2005

your ref GB/ar.6789

our ref NC 1234/2004

WITHOUT PREJUDICE SAVE AS TO COSTS

Dear Carrot & Marrow

Mr Pool v Savemore plc

In light of the evidence given by your client’s witnesses at the hearing on 4 April, I invite you to consider urgently with your client whether your defence is misconceived.

Two of your client’s three witnesses gave clear evidence that at the time of Mr Pool’s dismissal they did not believe that he had any right to refuse Sunday work. One of them appeared to maintain this belief even at the hearing. Even more tellingly, Mr Harpar, who made the decision to dismiss my client, gave unequivocal evidence that the only reason for the dismissal was Mr Pool’s refusal to work Saturday night shifts. As the Saturday night shift fell mainly on Sunday, your client’s own evidence points conclusively to a dismissal for refusing Sunday work.

In the circumstances I take the view that persisting with the respondent’s defence that Mr Pool was fairly dismissed for ‘inflexibility’ is unreasonable and/or misconceived: the only respect in which he was inflexible was his insistence on his right to refuse Sunday work.

Mr Pool’s losses have been clearly quantified and are not open to any credible dispute. As you have seen from his statement and the bundle of applications and rejection letters that have been disclosed, he took immediate and vigorous action to mitigate his loss; and he secured a new job at slightly better pay than he was earning while employed by your client after only 15 weeks. I therefore have instructions to offer settlement of the case for the full sum claimed on his schedule of loss, failing which I will rely on this letter in an application to the tribunal for Mr Pool’s whole costs, or alternatively his costs of preparing for and attending the resumed hearing.

Yours faithfully

[RachelMD]

Hello again Gaz. Fwiw, quite a few people on the forum have self-represented at ETs. I don't know if Rachel did, did you?

 

You will get help here, we like battles against nasty employers .

 

My best, HB

A few times, yes. Always got a settlement before it went to ET, thankfully.

[gazhodge1981]

The plot thickens

 

I have just had a phone call by one of the other sales guys and they have someone replacing me on Monday They interview him about ten days ago, i was there when they did.

 

Constructive dismissal???

[RachelMD]

The plot thickens

 

I have just had a phone call by one of the other sales guys and they have someone replacing me on Monday They interview him about ten days ago, i was there when they did.

 

Constructive dismissal???

Well, that doesn't seem unusual really. It's to be expected that they'd replace you.

What do you mean by constructive dismissal, Gaz?

CD is a situation where an EE resigns from their job, and claims that their ER effectively dismissed them by behaving towards the EE in a manner that left the EE with no other option than to resign.

[Bigredbus]

LOL... No!

 

It is unfair dismissal... Just another point to put down...

[gazhodge1981]

Well, that doesn't seem unusual really. It's to be expected that they'd replace you.

What do you mean by constructive dismissal, Gaz?

CD is a situation where an EE resigns from their job, and claims that their ER effectively dismissed them by behaving towards the EE in a manner that left the EE with no other option than to resign.

 

I am talking more pre determined as they interviewed him while i was there

[Bigredbus]

Find out, discreetly if that guy is a family member or friend of the owner or anyone's relative there... And were you the junior employee there?... Were you the last in?

[gazhodge1981]

I will try and find out and i was the last one in there.

[RachelMD]

Can you not think of any reason at all as to why your ER has dismissed you?

Are there any interpersonal issues, have you fallen out with anyone?

Sorry to have to ask, I don't want to come across as if I don't believe you.

Obviously there is some reason for their decision, it seems strange that this is so out of the blue.

[RachelMD]

Find out, discreetly if that guy is a family member or friend of the owner or anyone's relative there... And were you the junior employee there?... Were you the last in?

Good point. Nepotism is often the explanation for a reasonless or false dismissal. It's happened to me.