Do you have a Northern Rock Together Mortgage? Read This.

[alex77]

It is such a relief to find out that others have fallen itno the same trap as we did with NR together scheme our situation is as follows

Purchased our first property with my wife 6 1/2 years back,we placed 5% deposit down on 141k and Nr talked us into using the unsecured loan to consolidate previous debts and pay solicitors fees etc 20k in total.Our plan was to re mortgage when the fixed rate ran out (5.9% for 5 years) and go else where and pay part of the unsecured loan off .However it wasn't until the mortgage went onto SVR that we where told the smallprint in the loan stated that if you take your mortgage elsewhere the loan rate shoots up

So now Nr can't offer us anything due to loosing thier banking license and we cant afford the rise in repayments should we go elsewhere ,in 6 years the balance of the loan stands at £19700

Surely we should have a case for having been misold our unsecured loan ,our next move and the only one we can think of is that we have a baby due so will take the 6 months mortgage payment holiday we are entitled to and pay some off the loan instead

any advice would be appreciated

[Delboy1]

UKAR have to be very careful about calling in loans as many old Northern Rock Together and Flexible mortgages had a covenant put on the title deeds when they made the charge, that required the mortgage company to give an obligation to make further advances, (subject to the criteria being reached). They get out of it if you don't meet their criteria but the fact that NRAM no longer offer mortgages means that they cannot meet that obligation in any event.

It is worth getting copies of your legal documentation and you can get the land registry entries for your property on line for a fee of about £30. In combination I believe the T&C's are a good way to challenge them. The FSA have recently fined Bank Of Scotland for changing mortgage terms and conditions and ordered them to make goodwill payments to their customers as a result.

[rodriques]

Fatdog,

 

Am prepping my complaint to NR and undoubtedly on to the Ombudsman, but plan also to hit some other forums to see whether there truely is a market out there for group action from Together customers.

 

I'll keep in touch - perhaps we can devise a plan!

 

Best regards

 

Hi Please can you tell me how you have got on with your complaint to NR

[bade78]

I would love to know of any action taken aganist Northern Rock regarding the 'Together Mortgage'. I've had no end of problems with Nram which has subsequently now left me homeless. I took out the Mortgage in 2005. I'll have to see what documents i have left and go through them. I was evicted and my property repossessed on July 3rd and only had four days notice so all my belongings were left behind, I could only take keep sakes and a few bits and bobs.

I feel like I have been unfairly treated by Nram regarding my situation In a matter of two months I had reduced my arrears down by £2500 to just over £2100. I had got back on track with my mortgage payments and had paid every month so far up to the eviction. Nram refused point blank to offer any help, it felt like they just wanted me from the house and they did everything they could.

I remember a phone call where I was desperatly trying to get some sort of arrangement in order with them and told the guy i was speaking to that i had reduced my arrears by over £2000 and that I would make a payment in full the following week (as i had a cheque that was being cashed, but was 2 days past the eviction date). To which he replied well 'Thats not the point of all this............'

I have so many issues regarding Northern Rock that i feel i would be here alday explaining. Am really interested in finding out what action can be taken against them. I do remember one phone call many years ago after my fixed term had finished and if i had taken my mortgage else where but left the unsecured with them then they told me the interest rate would go up to over 12% so left me trapped, who knows perhaps i may still have my home if i couldve changed. Certainly now Nram have just sold it for £65000 thats £17500 less than what i paid for a spacious 3 bedroom house with a front garden and back garden with a garage. I feel outraged at this as the unsecured loan was to get alot of work done including damp proofing the whole of the downstairs, knew kitchen, bathroom, boiler etc.........

Im now in debt by over £60000 to northern rock. I really would like to hear from anyone who has an idea of which way i go from here. As it stands, I honestly havent a clue.

[jimmyay]

I'm also interested in any angles here. I am being stung for a high interest rate having left Northern Rock for Nationwide for my mortgage a few years ago (NR wouldnt let me renew as part of their plan to wind down). However my unsecured part is now at 11% or thereabouts - paying off ever so slowly. Something doesnt feel right as i never knew at the time this would happen & obviously at the time i took out the mortgage i had no intention of moving elsewhere nor leaving the unsecured part behind to be crucified by NR. It all stinks - try paying off £25 k at 11% - takes forever and i am sure they fouled up. Asking for copies of my t& c's again.

[Delboy1]

Hi Everyone

Hot off the press from yesterday, Northern Rock will have to repay £270 million pounds to loan customers with Together mortgages because of mistakes in the paperwork and annual statements. Go to the BBC news web site as I am still unable to post any links.

Customers who took out personal loans of less than £25,000 will receive an average of £1,775 each. Bank staff failed to include key details on annual statements about loans, including the original amount which had been borrowed.

The bank is writing to all customers who have been affected but they still have to find a solution for those people who may have had their loans repossessed who couldn't keep up the loan or mortgage payments. That could open up a complete can of worms for them.

 

As I said before, it is a good idea to revisit all your mortgage paperwork with an SAR.

I finally obtained a copy of my deed from Land Registry at a cost of £11 and the charge is still in the name of Northern Rock PLC and not NRAM.

However, I am still pursuing them for the overvaluation, for which I have now expert witness evidence of overvaluation.

There has also been a lot of debate on CAG about securitisation.

A South African website called new era dot org (again I can't post the link) is championing mortgagors with securitised mortgages and they highlighted a recent South African court case which may have considerable implications regarding the ownership of the debt once it has been securitised.

A house that was literally hours away from being sold on auction, was turned around and the South African bank Standard Bank abandoned the whole thing, including their judgment.

The day before the mortgagee, Mr Michael Plumstead was about to watch his family home being auctioned, an urgent application was brought before the Port Elizabeth High Court. Among other things, Mr Plumstead (the Applicant) stated the following:

“15. It is the Applicant’s intention to settle the arrears with the lawful holder of this debt.”

The auction was temporarily suspended by the Court… but then suddenly the bank backed down. The entire case was removed and the bank agreed to pay all legal costs.

I'm afraid English courts have always been on the side of the mortgagee (i.e NRAM) regarding the ownership of a securitised debt. Paragon Finance Plc v Pender & Anor [2005] EWCA Civ 760 (27 June 2005) refers. However, if the mortgagee has received payment for the debt from the security trustee who doesn't have to register their interest in the mortgage on the land registry and the mortgagor defaults, then that trustee would have had a credit default swap insurance which would settle the debt if the default occurs. So when a repossession occurs on a securitised debt, it could be argued that no debt actually exists. So, quite simply, there can be no legal case for repossession because all parties have been settled. In law, this would be referred to as de minimis non curat lex. (A mere trifle)

 

Obviously this would have to be challenged in English Law to set a precedent but it is yet another avenue that could be considered. The other problem is that your lender does not have to tell you that your mortgage has been securitised, although such securitisations are still subject to the Data Protection Act which I am pursuing to establish if my mortgage was in fact securitised with Granite (Northern Rock's Special Purpose Vehicle for securitisation).

 

I'll keep everyone posted about my continuing dispute.

[GothBoy]

Interesting that the NRAM website emphasises that it's only for customers whose maximum borrowing agreement was for £25k and thus regulated by CCA 1974. My loan on the Together Mortgage states it was for 'up to' £30k but still regulated under CCA 1974 (this was from 02 June 2005). I have no idea how much was actually borrowed as they did a load of financial trickery that I didn't, and still don't, understand, like retaining amounts against certain improvements and also not actually giving me the full amount of the secured mortgage!

 

Wonder if I get a letter....

[stevietoon]

Hi,

 

I appreciate these posts go back to 2012 but anybody any further forward on this Northern Rock 'Together' Mortgage?

 

i've recently put in my completed to the FOS regarding mis-selling which has left me in a financial mess.... Happy to discuss with like-minded people looking to take legal action...

[ceiralennon]

Are you looking to complain about the mortgage being missold as I have this together mortgage and believe it was missold in the first place. So this is a whole different matter and dont know how to take it further.

Any ideas anyone

[Nellie92]

The recent announcement re failure to produce terms and condition under the CCA for NRAM is just the tip of the ice berg. There are many unearthed scandals in the murky waters, the legacy of Northern rock. Only discovered yesterday although I have the exact terms of the together mortgage that they are insisting that my entire mortgage was secured from the start. I clearly outlined that i know that 19,000.00 was definately unsecured and arranged through Citi group. They could not explain this and ask i forwrd copies of paperwork. The advisor said the only way it could convert from unsecured to secured was if they had applied for a Charging order. Could this have happened without my knowledge:-x

[daz182]

Hi Everyone

Hot off the press from yesterday, Northern Rock will have to repay £270 million pounds to loan customers with Together mortgages because of mistakes in the paperwork and annual statements. Go to the BBC news web site as I am still unable to post any links.

Customers who took out personal loans of less than £25,000 will receive an average of £1,775 each. Bank staff failed to include key details on annual statements about loans, including the original amount which had been borrowed.

The bank is writing to all customers who have been affected but they still have to find a solution for those people who may have had their loans repossessed who couldn't keep up the loan or mortgage payments. That could open up a complete can of worms for them.

 

Just to clarify, for people that have loans effected by this that are still live, they will NOT recieve a CASH refund, the balance of the account will be redressed to take into account the refund, accounts that are now closed will receive a cash refund.

 

Or at least that what I can make out from the reports I read on BBC news website.

 

Cheers,

Darren.

[scottdm]

I have recently received the letter from NRAM to say that they are looking into the unsecured loans of the together mortgage.

 

I am assuming that if i currently still own the house- which i do. Any refund will just be deducted from the UNSECURED part?

 

I hope so as the amount has hardly reduced in 6 years of paying!

 

Hope these [edit]s get what's coming to them - and we the ripped off customer get some compensation!

Edited January 20, 2013 by honeybee13
Pejorative word removed.

[pecky1]

Recieved a letter form NRAM today telling me that our unsecured loan with the together mortgage is one of those that will be addressed we will not get a cash refund but it will be redressed on the account happy to take my money but not refund it in cash funny that !

Pecky 1

[allthebestintentions]

I received a letter today too saying the same thing that it will go against the loan rather than in cash. My question is if they are doing this then surely the loan is unenforceable??? Therefore shouldnt have to be paid at all ? Am i missing something or where exactly do customers stand with this....any info would be greatfully received. Thanks in advance

[ceiralennon]

Got my letter today to say i am entitled to redress on my unsecured loan, within the next 12 weeks, however I am slightly dissapointed that they will not entertain the idea of refunding into our bank account as that money was paid by us and its their fault regarding cca statements so would like to know if any legal eagles could tell me if it is worth pushing for as it would no way go to helping us out of negative equity with them. Plus cant be used as an overpayment to then draw back out, so basically most of the term of the loans are worth nothing to be honest so need to know where we the nram customer stand with this as they cant tell me anything when i call!!

Thanks all.

[GothBoy]

Pecky1, allthebestintentions and ceiralennon - Were your loans for £25k or over?

[allthebestintentions]

Pecky1, allthebestintentions and ceiralennon - Were your loans for £25k or over?

 

My unsecured was 24k and secured 15k

[GothBoy]

My unsecured was 24k and secured 15k

 

Ah, obviously I'm glad you're getting the refunds but the main problem is those of us with over £25k loans who were told it was CCA approved but isn't. Myself, I borrowed £12.5k BUT on the loan application they put "up to £30k" which screwed me over. I genuinely don't know how much I borrowed as they moved so much finances around during the house purchase I lost track!

[pecky1]

Mines for £21k unsecured

Pecky1

[GothBoy]

Just been looking into this more closely. Under the CCA 74 and the later amendments ANY variation in a credit agreement nullifies the earlier agreement and creates a new one, which falls under the relevant law AT THE TIME. Therefore, anyone with a loan over £25k who either borrowed more, changed reate (eg onto SVR) or took out a payment holiday AFTER the 2006 regulations came into place in 2008 IS REGULATED UNDER THE LATEST CCA VERSION. That's what the OFT says anyway. It might take a test case but it looks pretty clean cut to me as a non-legal (but with expertise in other areas of law). Only applies to unsecured loans however.

 

I have links but I'm not allowed to post them yet!

[pecky1]

Find your link GothBoy interesting when your allowed please post links

Pecky1

[GothBoy]

I certainly will do. I've got 'beef' with NRAM now and I won't let it lie!

[ceiralennon]

Mine was for just under 25k so take it will be almost 4k redress to the loan. I believe there are so many issues regarding this together product but how exactly do you take on a bank! I think I should try and seek legal advice because I want the money. haha! I mean I paid it and its not my fault they didnt comply with cca agreement. So all this carry on and changing terms etc should mean that it is unenforceable surely??? I am sure something can be done to get that money even get another loan to pay this one off then id be entitled to a cheque as the loan is paid off, something to think about I suppose what do you think guys.

Thanks

[GothBoy]

From what I understand they haven't contacted everyone yet, especially those who have closed loans. I would write to them if you're under the £25k though as this should have already been dealt with.

[sarahpinkgirl]

Hi there,

 

Has anyone got any group action started? I too have the together mortgage sold to me by a mortgage advisor. I thought it was a mortgage not a mortgage and a loan, I have been over paying it but i took out £30,000 and i've been paying it 7 years and still owe £22,000. I'm at a loss as how can they say you're covered by the CCA Then change their minds when it suits? If anyone has started a group action then i will happily join in and see if we can do something together to sort this whole sorry affair out. Any help or advise would be greatly appreciated.

 

Sarah