bacxkdoor Phoenix/Carter CCJ - LIttlewoods cat debt - set aside **WON+COSTS**

[themagician]

Just a little thought themagician, have you had a previous address?

 

Not suggesting Mr Carter has been naughty of course but it has been known for Court papers to be sent to a 'last known' address and then once judgement has been granted by default..because the alleged debtor doesn't live there...Mr Carter miraculously discovers the new address days after the judgement is granted and sends on the papers demanding payment.

yes we did move about 6 mths ago,and we got the demanding payment on 26th oct 2009.no date as to when judgement was made,Who would have sent us notice of the claim for ,i assume the courts but we never received it and we dont know anything about this debt???? so we have now cca the dca and are now appliying for a set aside as we have no info whatsoever on this debt!!

[Belaflat]

Have a read of this thread and you may see just how ethical Mr Carter's approach is. Beware.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/231068-our-dear-friend-mr.html#post2560997

[rev.ian]

Not suggesting Mr Carter has been naughty of course but it has been known for Court papers to be sent to a 'last known' address and then once judgement has been granted by default..because the alleged debtor doesn't live there...Mr Carter miraculously discovers the new address days after the judgement is granted and sends on the papers demanding payment.

He did exactly that to me and many others on here and would seem still gets away with it.

[themagician]

If it was me in your position then I would SAR the original creditor and send a CCA request to whoever owns the debt now, however it could be argued that they don't need to provide this as judgment has been made, but by sending a CCA request you have deominstrated that you have made more than a reasonable attempt to obtain the information...OR you could try this (possibly to the original creditor)- http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

sent cca to dca who is chasing the debt,still trying to find out who o.c is to sar them,cheers.

[themagician]

If it was me in your position then I would SAR the original creditor and send a CCA request to whoever owns the debt now, however it could be argued that they don't need to provide this as judgment has been made, but by sending a CCA request you have deominstrated that you have made more than a reasonable attempt to obtain the information...OR you could try this (possibly to the original creditor)- http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

i cca,d phoenix and its now past the 12+2 days with no cca,can i send them the acc in despute even though they have a ccj against me.??? cheers.

[42man]

I still think you should send a SAR to the original creditor....as I said above it could be rgued that they don't have to comply as they have judgement on you already....

[themagician]

doing that as we spk but can i send acc in despute letter to phoenix now the 12+ 2 days have passed as i still do not know about this debt,if i can what template do i use as it looks like the debt is a catalouge one so what cca provisions apply??.cheers for your quick response.;-)

[DonkeyB]

Sorry magician, missed this thread. You won't get any response from Phoenix. They are not the original creditor, but a Luxembourg(?)-based debt buyer.

 

What you need first of all is a copy of the claim form that was supposedly issued. So contact the court and request a copy urgently. The PoC should indicate who the original debt was with.

 

Carter is a prize sh1t and I wouldn't be surprised if the address on the claim is your old address. That claim form will give you the info you need to take this further. There are limits on the time taken to ask for a set-aside, so you need to move as quickly as you can.

[themagician]

cheers will do that tomorrow, we had a letter from credit account management ( phoenix) today saying that requesting a copy of the original agreement,we can confirm unfortunatley we are unable to locate any accounts from the details provided,so they retyurned my £1 po .funny as i quoted there judgement claim number???.what next please.

[DonkeyB]

Just get that copy of the claim form and we'll take it from there!

[themagician]

Just get that copy of the claim form and we'll take it from there!

there is no copy available says northampton court i just rang them,but they did tell me what the form was,it said phoenix is the claimaint and i the debter and it is for goods received/delivered for the said amount between june 2002 & june 2007.i also asked if they had proof of posting the claim form to me but was told they did not need to produce any proof!.

i already sent a cca to phoenix at woking in surrey @ gu21-5dh,but today it got returned to me from credit account management weybridge surry@ kt13-3sn saying they have no details of my cca request and returned the 1£ p.o.

any ideas?????

[Seminole]

I would apply for a set aside on the grounds that you never received the claim form and state that you are not aware of the debt. That will get the matter in front of a judge.

 

At the same time I would write (recorded delivery) asking him who the original creditor is and for a copy of the claim form. He'll probably ignore you but you can wave this letter in front of the judge if need be.

[DonkeyB]

From other threads, it has all the makings of being a catalogue debt. Does that ring any bells?

[Seminole]

From other threads, it has all the makings of being a catalogue debt. Does that ring any bells?

 

In which case there is unlikely to be any CCA agreement and the debt is null and void except, of course, that they've sold the debt to some offshore outfit that fails to deal with CCA requests correctly and uses an outfit like Carter's to pursue the debt. Pretty disgusting really.

[DonkeyB]

Here's that link to the Mail story about Bryan Carter chasing debts on behalf of a foreign company:

 

HETHERINGTON: Daughter in tears over debt threat | Mail Online

[42man]

IMO you really need some more substance apart from setting aside because you didn't receive it....(unless of course you moved house and you can prove it) I have heard judges say that 'if they had a £1 for every person who said they never received the claim form etc etc'.....get a full SAR from the original creditor first, then you could possibly challenge on the agreement, default notices, penalty charges etc etc....

[Seminole]

Here's that link to the Mail story about Bryan Carter chasing debts on behalf of a foreign company:

 

HETHERINGTON: Daughter in tears over debt threat | Mail Online

 

I'm amazed that any firm of solicitors would have any dealings with an outfit like Phoenix that is obviously pretending to be a British company for a reason. Presumably Bryan Carter must know what that reason is. Given this story hit the press in February, I'm surprised that the OFT and Companies House haven't taken action.

[Seminole]

IMO you really need some more substance apart from setting aside because you didn't receive it....(unless of course you moved house and you can prove it) I have heard judges say that 'if they had a £1 for every person who said they never received the claim form etc etc'.....get a full SAR from the original creditor first, then you could possibly challenge on the agreement, default notices, penalty charges etc etc....

 

It was a good enough excuse for the banks when they were attempting to overturn default CCJs in the early days of charges claims but I take your point

 

The problem here is that the OP doesn't know who the OC is. Given Phoenix are offshore I don't think SARNing them will have any effect. SARNing Bryan Carter might I suppose but a lot could happen in the 40 days it will take him to respond.

[42man]

Thanks Seminole....that will make a difference, if the OP has never had a catalogue debt then it should be clear cut.....Magician have you checked your credit files ?

[themagician]

In which case there is unlikely to be any CCA agreement and the debt is null and void except, of course, that they've sold the debt to some offshore outfit that fails to deal with CCA requests correctly and uses an outfit like Carter's to pursue the debt. Pretty disgusting really.

when we go for set aside if there is no cca agreement then can the judge throw it out even though he originally awarded a ccj against me??.

[themagician]

Thanks Seminole....that will make a difference, if the OP has never had a catalogue debt then it should be clear cut.....Magician have you checked your credit files ?

can do that,is there a free way of doing that?? have no credit cards now!

[Seminole]

when we go for set aside if there is no cca agreement then can the judge throw it out even though he originally awarded a ccj against me??.

 

No the set aside simply nullifies the CCJ. The creditor then has to make a fresh claim and you have the opportunity to defend yourself. It's at that point that the absence of a CCA would be of interest to the court.

[42man]

Have you tried ringing the court to get copies of the original claim ? That would be very useful....

[DonkeyB]

He already tried, 42man. The court told him what was in the claim but said they didn't have a copy, which seems odd. I'd like to see an original copy to see if it had the 'mistaken' wrong address on it.

[42man]

You have to be seen to be making a reasonable effort to get the information (thanks for that DB).....I think as a rough defence to set aside.

 

Non delivery of the claim

 

The existence of a catalogue debt is denied.

 

The alleged creditor has failed to produce a copy of the agreement. And can not trace any account information.

 

No documents relating to the original claim are in existance.